yrc-atm I am not in denial as you say. I been following this pretty close. I question the ratio you have given but I believe it is slightly lower then that. If you got the numbers from CSPF website I would question them. The ratio is definitely a problem but not the main one. The real problem why our fund is down to around 16 Billion dollars now comes from Wall Street fiduciaries, and the Department of Labor not doing their job!
Dissolve and disperse central states pension fund now !
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yrc-atm I am not in denial as you say. I been following this pretty close. I question the ratio you have given but I believe it is slightly lower then that. If you got the numbers from CSPF website I would question them. The ratio is definitely a problem but not the main one. The real problem why our fund is down to around 16 Billion dollars now comes from Wall Street fiduciaries, and the Department of Labor not doing their job!
Pension Fund Run By Wall Street Cited In Push To Cut Retiree Benefits
The original consent decree that removed Teamsters representatives from the Central States Fund’s board came in the wake of corruption allegations, and was supposed to rid the pension system of self dealing. A Teamsters retiree who has analyzed the Central States Fund, said the opposite has happened.
“The fund pays out over $60 million a year in fees,” he told IBTimes. “The Justice Department seems only concerned about whether or not the pension fund is caught up in casino investments, like in the '70s. The Justice Department doesn’t seem interested in looking into whether or not Wall Street is on the take.”
http://www.ibtimes.com/pension-fund-run-wall-street-cited-push-cut-retiree-benefits-1748439
The original consent decree that removed Teamsters representatives from the Central States Fund’s board came in the wake of corruption allegations, and was supposed to rid the pension system of self dealing. A Teamsters retiree who has analyzed the Central States Fund, said the opposite has happened.
“The fund pays out over $60 million a year in fees,” he told IBTimes. “The Justice Department seems only concerned about whether or not the pension fund is caught up in casino investments, like in the '70s. The Justice Department doesn’t seem interested in looking into whether or not Wall Street is on the take.”
http://www.ibtimes.com/pension-fund-run-wall-street-cited-push-cut-retiree-benefits-1748439
jimmy g said:
Here are just a few examples. None of them are facts. None pertain to a solution. All are attacks on the character of others, as most of your posts eventually do. If I post six, there are at least 16 more... (although I readily admit your partner Docker/nounionfool makes yours look tame, which is why I put him on ignore and can't see them)
These aren't facts. As normal, if someone disagrees with you they are weak, doing nothing, deserve nothing, or aren't your Brother, or are bitter. Looks like you referring to yourself on the bitterness, after reading these posts...
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P.J.,NO U. I concede defeat, you whipped me on debate points today. I'm going to craw home and lick my wounds. You are a better man than I, Gunga Din .
Obviously, you have the ability to debate, never said you didn't. What I posted was, that as soon as you and (especially) your cohort post in threads, you impune your opponents character and try to intimidate them. That's not necessary, adds nothing to a solution, and (I believe) beneath you. Bring the debate more dignity. Lose the bitterness, and go back to those 'facts' you claim to have! You're a smart guy- you don't need the trash talk.
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you are right. would you believe I've been fired 12 times for sarcasm.
I am so sorry Jimmy that I cannot live up to your standards. But what I said is true. If you don't fight for anything then you deserve what you get. Your post show that you support the cuts, I don't and never will. If you don't like what I say that is your problem... Not Mine!!! I have to laugh at your examples of how you say I attack people... If that is the best you have then you don't have anything, but you tried I will give you that!
No Retiree is going to accept a cut in their pension unless they are forced to. We will fight for our survival. even if you choose not to. If our choices are taking a 50% cut, or draw our full pension till it runs dry, then give me my full pension for as long as it last. You are asking retirees to take a 50% cut just you can draw yours, then I don't see that happening either. You only are contacting your representatives to promote cuts, and guarantee that you get your pension at somebody else's expense.
My problem with that is if you don't want to help save your pension, then you should not expect a retiree to give up 50% of theirs.
Why don't you take a 50% pay cut now, and tell me how easy it will be for you to maintain your lifestyle. Our goal is to make sure there is going to be a pension for all. Not just a chosen few!!!
Actives best chances are to join in with the retirees, and fight for pensions for everybody!!!
I have read many of your post, and you really need to practice what you preach.
Jimmy I have been fighting this for quite a while. But some on here don't want facts. They keep saying the same thing without telling us how they have come to their conclusion. If someone is serious then the can PM me. I have no problem talking facts, and helping those who are interested. We have to fight this war. It is not my fault, the same as it is not your fault. People really need to know how and why this happened. There needs to be accountability not with just CSPF, but also the Department of Labor, and the US District Courts who have been in control since 1982. I am more then willing to help and share info... But not when I am being attacked!!!
You seem confused. You claim I'm bitter (I'm the least bitter on here) and that I want you to sacrifice so I get my Full Pension???? That is ILLOGICAL. I posted that I'd take 50% instead of zero- how is that equalling a full pension? I'm for fairness. Everyone gets the same, like Teamsters claim to be for. Under your scenario, a 45 year old today, with 20 years paid in, will get nothing at 65 when he's worked your dock for 40 years. Thats not right in any scenario. Your insistence that there is somewhere a magic 19 billion that will just appear in our CSPF just isn't reality, IMO. Reality is all I've got.
No one attacked YOU. We've had this history of your debate style before. The only way you post when your cohort is around is to denounce. You don't need to do that. I've seen you post nicely. I know you can. This is the pension forum, not the abf forum....
In the meantime, we still have twice as many liabilities as assets.... that's Math!
Jimmy our mission is to make sure Teamster gets their full pensions... Not just Retirees. This concerns everyone, and everyone should be uniting together to fight this. I am for fairness to, but mine includes no cuts for any teamster that has earned it. Cuts to retirees is going to hurt more then just the retirees. It is going to affect every one in the United States.
There is no guarantee that we will win this war. But I know if we don't try then we will all lose. In the end no matter what I will know in my heart that I tried!!!
I believe the Dollar will collapse. Under Carter, the Fed pumped in 1/3 again of our money supply. It took 22% interest rates to restore stability. Obama has had the Fed at least triple our money supply. No nation that ever tried similar has survived. Germany' Weimar Republic saw bread go from a Deutsche Mark to 3 trillion Deutsche Mark or so. The result was ಠ▄ಠ. Zimbabwe tried printing their own trillion whatever bills for their currency. The USA has more than 220 Trillion in Entitlement Promises plus 21 trillion in real debt. There is only 60 trillion of wealth in all the World's combined assets. Congress has way more problems than CSPF.
One last thing, tho (had it on my mind, couldn't sleep). About the 'if you want the 50% cut, give up 50% of your wages':
First, no one WANTS a cut. We just face reality.
Next, It's apples to oranges. Not yet retired people typically still have debt, which needs paid before retirement. The vast majority of retired planned, and had zero debt before retiring. My Mother in Law has survived on strictly her $900 (now up to 1300) Social Security Check since 1985. She has no debt. Not saying it's a gracious lifestyle, but she isn't starving. A married couple with Social Security and half a Teamster Pension won't be happy, but they'll survive if they plan as ESP posts. If they(I) can't, what happens when the Fund is zero?
When I got in, I planned on SSI of 1500 and 2500 from CSPF. Now if I get half, I can put off SSI to 70 and still collect the same aggragate amount (until SSI collapses). If Mother in Law can live on her now 1300, a couple being cut to 1500 PLUS SSI shouldn't lose much more than their pride....
Is it good? No. But it won't be the reason for the End of the World.
First, no one WANTS a cut. We just face reality.
Next, It's apples to oranges. Not yet retired people typically still have debt, which needs paid before retirement. The vast majority of retired planned, and had zero debt before retiring. My Mother in Law has survived on strictly her $900 (now up to 1300) Social Security Check since 1985. She has no debt. Not saying it's a gracious lifestyle, but she isn't starving. A married couple with Social Security and half a Teamster Pension won't be happy, but they'll survive if they plan as ESP posts. If they(I) can't, what happens when the Fund is zero?
When I got in, I planned on SSI of 1500 and 2500 from CSPF. Now if I get half, I can put off SSI to 70 and still collect the same aggragate amount (until SSI collapses). If Mother in Law can live on her now 1300, a couple being cut to 1500 PLUS SSI shouldn't lose much more than their pride....
Is it good? No. But it won't be the reason for the End of the World.
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You are really a piece of work. You come to this thread, get in way over your head and then what do you do? You start crying and accusing one poster of attacking, being someone else, put him on ignore, but still have the audacity to bad mouth this person that you did put on ignore and then try to use him as a crutch with another poster in order to try taking control of the debate. You keep talking about others not posting facts but here you are insisting that I'm another person without a shred of evidence. Here's the fact of the matter, I'm my own person and if you can show me facts otherwise, I sure would like to see them because that would sure be news to me. All you do is try to push your opinions as facts and denounce others that you disagree with of only having opinions that can't be backed up with as facts. I have news for you, most views on this pension issue are speculations and opinions at this time. If you want to base you're "facts" by relying on the words of the fund's administrator, the bankers, wall street and the government, then do so but you darn well better be ready for the confrontation that follows from those that believe that the fund's administrator, the bankers, wall street and the government are all nothing but crooks and liars.
In my opinion, you can't handle confrontation and don't even realize that trash talking is sometimes committed by both sides as part of that confrontation. There are those who are too thin skinned for these types of confrontations and you are one of them but most realize this and avoid them but you don't. You cry and whine by accusations of foul play to turn the tide so you make it all about you and try forcing the other side to walk on egg shells around you. That won't happen on my part so try as you will. I was an avid follower on Teamster dot net for years and believe me when I say this, you wouldn't of even lasted a day on there before you went running with that tail between your legs. All the crying and whining in the world wouldn't of helped you there.
http://personalliberty.com/3-surprising-secrets-healthier-happier-life/
#2: roll with the punches....
#2: roll with the punches....
Treasury Department says CSPF CANNOT MAKE CUTS DEEP ENOUGH TO SAVE THE FUND. The fix has to come from Congress, and yes it can happen!!! If people want to save their pensions, their only choice is to join the retiree's and fight to make sure there is a pension for everybody!!!
So we're back where we started this discussion. Wanting someone else's money to bail us out..... They won't do it for one fund. There are too many hundreds of funds to set a precident. They MIGHT eventually bail out the PGBF, but don't hold your breath.
You call it restitution, I call it bailout. TomAto, tomato. Not enough money.... They'll blend it and 401s into SSI and call it your pension.
Jimmy you try to manipulate people to do not agree with you. We have different opinions on how to fight this. I will not change my way of thinking just to accommodate. The actives have to get past their believe that retirees are greedy meesters, and only are concerned about their pensions. If actives wants to guarantee that they get their fair share of the pension then their only hope is to join the retirees in fighting for a real solution, and can and will come from Congress. I truly believe that something is going to be done... They will not just let it run out! The ramifications of letting it fail will damage more then just Retirees, and Actives, it will cause great harm to the US Economy.