Yellow | Hoffa Letter To Yellow-Roadway Members

[BIG STEVE]

If the union can't protect it's 'brothers' from the layoffs, how does it expect to protect them from total job loss when the terminals begin to merge? I don't see any protection where I'm at now, w/ all the senior guys working 60 hrs and I'm home waiting for a phone call to work 1 or 2 days if I'm lucky ... oh, with NO healthcare either.

first off girls this is what i was responding to
especially the comment concerning senior guys working excessive hours while junior men walk

secondly supplementing my expected retirement was a priority of mine and it should be yours too as i well know the consequences if yrc or abf goes under
my fund at this point in time has enough monies to carry retired guys through presently with the prospect of guys not being retired left out in the cold

even with the PGC possible takeover the money that i would get would be approx half of what i get presently
that girls will hurt but not bury me
it will bury anyone who did not prepare financially for that prospect

my whole point was simply that in order for the funds to be secure two things go hand in hand
additional employer contributions and an influx of new members
THE UNION SECURED A GOOD CONTRIBUTION RATE BUT,
since the union hasn't organized any new NMFA members and the companies are doing more with less and guys like you who are hungry working every minute possible your job will not grow, your union will stagnate and your fund will be drained as there are more guys retired than working and worst of all your health will deteriorate putting an added stress on the funds

like i said brother WAKE UP:smilie_132:

 

[Triplex]

<snip>
my whole point was simply that in order for the funds to be secure two things go hand in hand additional employer contributions and an influx of new members
THE UNION SECURED A GOOD CONTRIBUTION RATE BUT, since the union hasn't organized any new NMFA members and the companies are doing more with less and guys like you who are hungry working every minute possible your job will not grow, your union will stagnate and your fund will be drained as there are more guys retired than working and worst of all your health will deteriorate putting an added stress on the funds

like i said brother WAKE UP:smilie_132:

I'm going to play devil's advocate here and throw something out to think about so don't bash me just because I'm saying it:

It's seems fairly obvious that a company is saving money by working people on overtime rather than putting additional people to work since it's then saving the cost of the health and welfare contributions for those additional employees. Since that tactic is an attempt to keep the company solvent, isn't that better than having it shut the doors in the end because the extra expenses pushed it over the edge?? Sure it's great to have more people working but if doing that screws up the profit/loss numbers and the business fails, who gains??

 

[larry retired]

I'm going to play devil's advocate here and throw something out to think about so don't bash me just because I'm saying it:

It's seems fairly obvious that a company is saving money by working people on overtime rather than putting additional people to work since it's then saving the cost of the health and welfare contributions for those additional employees. Since that tactic is an attempt to keep the company solvent, isn't that better than having it shut the doors in the end because the extra expenses pushed it over the edge?? Sure it's great to have more people working but if doing that screws up the profit/loss numbers and the business fails, who gains??

You're not being a devil's advocate. You know as well as I do that that is the matrix. We have been told since day one that it is cheaper to pay overtime than to pay benefits. This is the way it is and it will never, I repeat, never change.

 

[BIG STEVE]

I'm going to play devil's advocate here and throw something out to think about so don't bash me just because I'm saying it:

It's seems fairly obvious that a company is saving money by working people on overtime rather than putting additional people to work since it's then saving the cost of the health and welfare contributions for those additional employees. Since that tactic is an attempt to keep the company solvent, isn't that better than having it shut the doors in the end because the extra expenses pushed it over the edge?? Sure it's great to have more people working but if doing that screws up the profit/loss numbers and the business fails, who gains??

i won't bash you i'll educate you
on the surface what you say seems logical but let's analyze that

my take on your statement goes something like this
hiring additional men to do the job would not hurt the company at all
this is why
1- they would keep the customers happy because their pick ups and deliveries will be timely, this what keeps the company truly secure, a satisfied customer base
2- the employees would be much happier and more importantly, less fatigued working less hours let's say 50 - 52 instead of 60
these workers would be more productive and less inclined to make costly mistakes
eg: misloading freight, taking longer breaks due to fatigue and taking less time off also as absenteeism is problematic
less accidents both workers comp and vehicular thereby cutting costly expenditures
doesn't the company place a heavy emphasis on safety? why? simply because it is a controllable cost
they may care somewhat about you and that's not displaying true concern on their part
it is basically this, it costs them money when you get hurt or when you are in a preventable accident
and in addition because you are not as easily replaceable as you might think, remember there is a real shortage of drivers out there
believe anything else and you are gullible

now with those sentiments said, let's get to the bottomline
i'll round off the numbers to make it easy
our hourly rate is $22 / hour + a H&W contribution of approx $14 for a total of $36 and our OT rate is $34 / hour
for new hires it is substanially less
the savings for the company is negligble and marginal at best
sure they may think they save a little but at what cost.... refer to above

so where's the real savings in that
what good is it if the impact on the company is illusionary at best and more than likely a negative impact

the company always speaks of getting the job done
well the way i see it, the best and most productive way is to hire the amount of men necc to accomplish that goal
they would rather if the need is for 10 men work 8 ....we'll manage
a fact to consider ---- we are a shape industry so there is no true work guarantee
where is the additional cost if there is no work for a large list? there is none
truth is if additional men are hired to do the job then our funds could maintain themselves, the companies would stay solvent and profitable because the job would get done in a less costly manner
additional profits would rise higher than the cost associated with that

i know some of you referred to the deadwood on our jobs, hanger outs, sleepers and such
this is not the norm, truth is if it was, we would not be discussing this right now

keep this in mind: with GPS capability employed by the companies, to practice that would be employment ******* for the individual

but what is happening in reality?


the true intention is to weaken our union... and they are accomplishing that goal
for what end? future concessions
deregulation is only a part of the problem
union organizing became complacent

the company appeals to our greed
employs attritionary strategies

the company subcontracts our freight to keep the seniority boards small

especially now, you would think with first the PSE and currently the UTILITY language would be enough......nooooooo..... the company gives our long haul freight as well as our short haul freight to non-union smaller carriers
the very same carriers they compete with for that freight
real smart - why not just give them a customer list

the real problem brother is they shovel the :: and we buy into it hook line and sinker

the union is also not blameless but theirs is a well thought out position
with a declining number of NMFA members what do they do
they include a concessionary new hire article with reduced rates to entice the companies to hire more men
what happens -- the company still does not cover the job and works us to death
what does that tell us? you figure it out i already did
sorry for the length but i felt it was necc

 

[BIG STEVE]

I dont really see what this has to do with Hoffa's letter to the union on the merge but I cannot sit here without responding.
You sir ,have fallen out of touch with reality.
Our daily mileage and hours have been extended by the company and the government (not a choice issue)
overtime is mandatory most of the time (not a choice)
We cannot refuse to work a full week without loosing our job (again not a choice issue)
The seniority we carry is the only thing we have to protect us in this industry and it is fittingly so.
If the &quot;COMPANY&quot; gives me a 60 or 70 hour week it's usually because they dont want to pay health and welfare on two people and its going to happen and there is nothing we can do about it. Has little to do with seniority or being greedy most of the time and I resent the implication.
The difference in take home will not be that much more &quot;now&quot;,but a great percentage of the differance will be returned at the end of the year provided we dont go well into triple didget figures.
I believe your analogy of health and welfare issues is indeed correct but you are misdirecting the blame!
Greed....would only apply to people working in their seventies! They are ****** the system. I am 52 and have 29 years here. I am vested at max but cannot retire without severe punishment and cannot collect social security till mid sixties. What do you suggest I do?
Now....last but not least. You are on a defined bennefit retirement no doubt. What do you think will happen to it if the union companies fold and there is no longer anybody paying into it? I will apologize to you for my outburst but I am not greedy! Just trying to get where you are and it really is getting harder! Nothing I would love more than a forty or fifty hour week but the companies wont allow it now UNLESS.....you are one of the new part time casual type workers without bennefits and there lies the big problem of the future.
Have a great day and enjoy your retirement....Im sure you earned it.

thank you but i disagree,
i know what we are discussing only stems from hoffa's letter but it is all relavant
i addressed some of your thoughts on my last post
this is the reality
the problem you face with the penalties for early retirement relates directly to what i am saying
your fund would not have had to make those neg changes if it had more participants
my local not to long ago used to give free med at any age upon retirement with 18yrs of service -combined 25 yrs
it changed to paying for medical with 18yrs of service -combined 25 yrs + age 55 -with older guys starting with 55 getting a subsidy -- no early retirement penalty for pre 2004 yrs 6% penalty for post 2004 credits
next change: same rules for medical, currently no subsidy until age 57, along with a 25 yr 57 age requirement, 6% early retirement penalty for all years of service no disability pension
all this in 5 short years
why is this happening?
if we had additional participants it may not have been so drastic
that is what i was referring to in my posts
have a good day brother
good luck and i hope you fare well

 

[wolf]

i won't bash you i'll educate you
on the surface what you say seems logical but let's analyze that

my take on your statement goes something like this
hiring additional men to do the job would not hurt the company at all
this is why
1- they would keep the customers happy because their pick ups and deliveries will be timely, this what keeps the company truly secure, a satisfied customer base
2- the employees would be much happier and more importantly, less fatigued working less hours let's say 50 - 52 instead of 60
these workers would be more productive and less inclined to make costly mistakes
eg: misloading freight, taking longer breaks due to fatigue and taking less time off also as absenteeism is problematic
less accidents both workers comp and vehicular thereby cutting costly expenditures
doesn't the company place a heavy emphasis on safety? why? simply because it is a controllable cost
they may care somewhat about you and that's not displaying true concern on their part
it is basically this, it costs them money when you get hurt or when you are in a preventable accident
and in addition because you are not as easily replaceable as you might think, remember there is a real shortage of drivers out there
believe anything else and you are gullible

now with those sentiments said, let's get to the bottomline
i'll round off the numbers to make it easy
our hourly rate is $22 / hour + a H&W contribution of approx $14 for a total of $36 and our OT rate is $34 / hour
for new hires it is substanially less
the savings for the company is negligble and marginal at best
sure they may think they save a little but at what cost.... refer to above

so where's the real savings in that
what good is it if the impact on the company is illusionary at best and more than likely a negative impact

the company always speaks of getting the job done
well the way i see it, the best and most productive way is to hire the amount of men necc to accomplish that goal
they would rather if the need is for 10 men work 8 ....we'll manage
a fact to consider ---- we are a shape industry so there is no true work guarantee
where is the additional cost if there is no work for a large list? there is none
truth is if additional men are hired to do the job then our funds could maintain themselves, the companies would stay solvent and profitable because the job would get done in a less costly manner
additional profits would rise higher than the cost associated with that

i know some of you referred to the deadwood on our jobs, hanger outs, sleepers and such
this is not the norm, truth is if it was, we would not be discussing this right now

keep this in mind: with GPS capability employed by the companies, to practice that would be employment ******* for the individual

but what is happening in reality?


the true intention is to weaken our union... and they are accomplishing that goal
for what end? future concessions
deregulation is only a part of the problem
union organizing became complacent

the company appeals to our greed
employs attritionary strategies

the company subcontracts our freight to keep the seniority boards small

especially now, you would think with first the PSE and currently the UTILITY language would be enough......nooooooo..... the company gives our long haul freight as well as our short haul freight to non-union smaller carriers
the very same carriers they compete with for that freight
real smart - why not just give them a customer list

the real problem brother is they shovel the :: and we buy into it hook line and sinker

the union is also not blameless but theirs is a well thought out position
with a declining number of NMFA members what do they do
they include a concessionary new hire article with reduced rates to entice the companies to hire more men
what happens -- the company still does not cover the job and works us to death
what does that tell us? you figure it out i already did
sorry for the length but i felt it was necc

Ok Guys I just found our next Union President to replace Hoffa. I like this post.

 

[roadstar120]

thank you but i disagree,
i know what we are discussing only stems from hoffa's letter but it is all relavant
i addressed some of your thoughts on my last post
this is the reality
the problem you face with the penalties for early retirement relates directly to what i am saying
your fund would not have had to make those neg changes if it had more participants
my local not to long ago used to give free med at any age upon retirement with 18yrs of service -combined 25 yrs
it changed to paying for medical with 18yrs of service -combined 25 yrs + age 55 -with older guys starting with 55 getting a subsidy -- no early retirement penalty for pre 2004 yrs 6% penalty for post 2004 credits
next change: same rules for medical, currently no subsidy until age 57, along with a 25 yr 57 age requirement, 6% early retirement penalty for all years of service no disability pension
all this in 5 short years
why is this happening?
if we had additional participants it may not have been so drastic
that is what i was referring to in my posts
have a good day brother
good luck and i hope you fare well

OK,And thank you for taking the time to be specific this time.
I do like what you have to say in your long entry there and couldnt agree with you more. After your first post it just seemed you were pointing a finger at people who are forced to comply with a new system that promotes more for less and is the direct result of corporate lobyists and greed from the ranks of upper managment. Before Yellow borrowed and bought!....I had a nice bid that was 50 hours a week monday through friday and weekends off. Now I am forced to work long hours and am always given more work than can possibly be performed in the time frame between starts. This is unsafe and non productive to say the very least but the key word is &quot;forced&quot;. This is why I busted out on your original post. It pointed blame and offered no solutions. Matter of fact after your second post refering to the laborers as girls,I was ready to ask if your wisdom had slipped into your depends and got you all uncomfortable...lol.
Thanks so much for taking the time to write the last post and clarifing your statements. Think we have obviosly misjudged each other and you have gained my respect. Question is now......Wouldnt it be nice if the right people from the ranks of the union and the company read your last post and acted on it!
&quot;HEY&quot;.....It could happen!
Again thank you for making yourself clear. Was a great post!

 

[dokman]

i won't bash you i'll educate you
on the surface what you say seems logical but let's analyze that

my take on your statement goes something like this
hiring additional men to do the job would not hurt the company at all
this is why
1- they would keep the customers happy because their pick ups and deliveries will be timely, this what keeps the company truly secure, a satisfied customer base
2- the employees would be much happier and more importantly, less fatigued working less hours let's say 50 - 52 instead of 60
these workers would be more productive and less inclined to make costly mistakes
eg: misloading freight, taking longer breaks due to fatigue and taking less time off also as absenteeism is problematic
less accidents both workers comp and vehicular thereby cutting costly expenditures
doesn't the company place a heavy emphasis on safety? why? simply because it is a controllable cost
they may care somewhat about you and that's not displaying true concern on their part
it is basically this, it costs them money when you get hurt or when you are in a preventable accident
and in addition because you are not as easily replaceable as you might think, remember there is a real shortage of drivers out there
believe anything else and you are gullible

now with those sentiments said, let's get to the bottomline
i'll round off the numbers to make it easy
our hourly rate is $22 / hour + a H&W contribution of approx $14 for a total of $36 and our OT rate is $34 / hour
for new hires it is substanially less
the savings for the company is negligble and marginal at best
sure they may think they save a little but at what cost.... refer to above

so where's the real savings in that
what good is it if the impact on the company is illusionary at best and more than likely a negative impact

the company always speaks of getting the job done
well the way i see it, the best and most productive way is to hire the amount of men necc to accomplish that goal
they would rather if the need is for 10 men work 8 ....we'll manage
a fact to consider ---- we are a shape industry so there is no true work guarantee
where is the additional cost if there is no work for a large list? there is none
truth is if additional men are hired to do the job then our funds could maintain themselves, the companies would stay solvent and profitable because the job would get done in a less costly manner
additional profits would rise higher than the cost associated with that

i know some of you referred to the deadwood on our jobs, hanger outs, sleepers and such
this is not the norm, truth is if it was, we would not be discussing this right now

keep this in mind: with GPS capability employed by the companies, to practice that would be employment ******* for the individual

but what is happening in reality?


the true intention is to weaken our union... and they are accomplishing that goal
for what end? future concessions
deregulation is only a part of the problem
union organizing became complacent

the company appeals to our greed
employs attritionary strategies

the company subcontracts our freight to keep the seniority boards small

especially now, you would think with first the PSE and currently the UTILITY language would be enough......nooooooo..... the company gives our long haul freight as well as our short haul freight to non-union smaller carriers
the very same carriers they compete with for that freight
real smart - why not just give them a customer list

the real problem brother is they shovel the :: and we buy into it hook line and sinker

the union is also not blameless but theirs is a well thought out position
with a declining number of NMFA members what do they do
they include a concessionary new hire article with reduced rates to entice the companies to hire more men
what happens -- the company still does not cover the job and works us to death
what does that tell us? you figure it out i already did
sorry for the length but i felt it was necc

You honestly think guys have not figured out how to get around the gps open up your ears in the break room

 

[larry retired]

big steve, there are two things that I disagree with in your rambling post. First of all, I think the company knows exactly what policy is most cost effective. I know many of you don't think they can walk and chew gum at the same time, but they have been crunching these numbers for a long time, and they know down to the penny what is most cost effective. And second, you suggest that people are forced to work OT, causing unwanted fatigue. Every person I worked with that worked extreme OT did so because they wanted the extra money. And the only thing that allows them this privilege is a simple thing called seniority.

 

[wolf]

big steve, there are two things that I disagree with in your rambling post. First of all, I think the company knows exactly what policy is most cost effective. I know many of you don't think they can walk and chew gum at the same time, but they have been crunching these numbers for a long time, and they know down to the penny what is most cost effective. And second, you suggest that people are forced to work OT, causing unwanted fatigue. Every person I worked with that worked extreme OT did so because they wanted the extra money. And the only thing that allows them this privilege is a simple thing called seniority.

I want to get in here. If you count pennies only Larry may be right but that would ignore the intangables that Big Steve brought up. I know the company will not admit there is a hidden cost but we all know its there. And I for one don't want OT but am forced due to being on clean up shift and no senority. So pray tell how do I go home in eight?

 

[BIG STEVE]

You honestly think guys have not figured out how to get around the gps open up your ears in the break room

ok tell me you wrap the nextel in aluminum foil!
at ABF we used the nextel like a manifest
logged the time arrived, time departed etc etc for each stop
if you think for one minute you can fudge the system think again

my TM had software that located you each time you made an entry
in fact the coordinates where you were are sent each time you make an entry
he was constantly breaking guys chops about entering info timely as it was easy for him to see where you were when you entered info

both abf's & roadway's software was a map on a computer screen showing a bread crumb path on the streets you were on
of course contractually they could not use it against you but they could locate you and coordinate with spotters to check you out thus getting you for dishonesty and falsification bs
most guys are simply doing a few stops and then updating the progress periodically and are not stealing time but they were harassed just the same
ps: i was a steward who represented guys who were harrassed in this fashion so i think i would know something about it

if you beat the system share it with the rest of us

 

[Toby]

if you beat the system share it with the rest of us

Only in a PM

 

[BIG STEVE]

big steve, there are two things that I disagree with in your rambling post. First of all, I think the company knows exactly what policy is most cost effective. I know many of you don't think they can walk and chew gum at the same time, but they have been crunching these numbers for a long time, and they know down to the penny what is most cost effective. And second, you suggest that people are forced to work OT, causing unwanted fatigue. Every person I worked with that worked extreme OT did so because they wanted the extra money. And the only thing that allows them this privilege is a simple thing called seniority.

first of all i appoligize for the length of my post once again
i think i did that prior
secondly it is true some guys want it and do it quietly which is fine with me
except when it is counterproductive to the rest of us inclusive of the guy who is willing
what i stated in my post i felt had to be said
do the math brother as far as the crunching of numbers
as far as walking and chewing gum then tell me why dispatch more than occasionally has two trucks at the same stop, either both making deliveries or 1 with a pickup & 1 with a delivery
better yet when a company making a delivery at a stop witnesses the cartage agent making one of our deliveries simutaneosly
next thing you'll say,&quot; well the dispatcher isn't responsible for the number crunching&quot;
well the ******* who hired him is and if he can't get that right what makes you think his other &quot;observations&quot; are right on

come to my terminal and you will witness an overwhelming majority of guys getting threatened by management
so much for the willing, at least on my job

 

[BIG STEVE]

Only in a PM

pm me as i would love to know

 

[BIG STEVE]

I want to get in here. If you count pennies only Larry may be right but that would ignore the intangables that Big Steve brought up. I know the company will not admit there is a hidden cost but we all know its there. And I for one don't want OT but am forced due to being on clean up shift and no senority. So pray tell how do I go home in eight?

become a banker
if the forcing continues and becomes habitual an excessive ot grievance is in order

 

[Toby]

Big Steve we all would and if someone knew it would be best to do in PM since big bro is watching ya know. But I don't belive their really is a way myself since the chip is built into the units as they are in all cell phones now , that is why anyone with a phone can be triangulated down to the exact spot if need be.

 

[larry retired]

I want to get in here. If you count pennies only Larry may be right but that would ignore the intangables that Big Steve brought up. I know the company will not admit there is a hidden cost but we all know its there. And I for one don't want OT but am forced due to being on clean up shift and no senority. So pray tell how do I go home in eight?

I was forced to work OT too. But if you read carefully what I said, I made a special point to say excessive OT. I'm talking about people who work from 15-20 hours OT. I know a few who work way over that, but they don't have CDLs.

 

[larry retired]

as far as walking and chewing gum then tell me why dispatch more than occasionally has two trucks at the same stop,

I'm not talking about lower level management. You don't have to tell me how incompetent some of these yahoos are. I'm talking about policy makers who have been creating and studying these numbers for decades. They can punch this data up on a computer, after so many years of collecting it, and show you exactly why they do what they do.

 

[jimmy g]

What do you think will happen to it if the union companies fold and there is no longer anybody paying into it?

That scenario is exactly why UPS pulled out of the Teamster's Pension Plan. They saw it coming where they could very well be the last man standing, getting all the bills. So they paid up and got out. Now there's not a fall-back plan. It's us or nothing.

Same goes for Social Security, which is nothing but a tax from those that still work, to those that, for whatever reason, no longer do. End the tax this morning, and there are no benefits tonight. No checks to go out. Most people on it do not realize that.

 

[Stan Smith]

Now there's not a fall-back plan. It's us or nothing.

Thats comforting... :shades: