We have a winner,this pension system is killing any profit the company can turn. I will not vote for any more of my raises to be dumped into that hole.
ABF | Next Contract ?
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D
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OK, I have a question, hypothetical scenario for you/us (not really all that hypothetical). Our phenomenal negotiating teams comes to us with an unacceptable proposal and our ballot reads:
1) I accept this proposal.
2) I do not accept this proposal and authorize a strike.
What would you recommend we do?
D
Docker
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You gave the answer in your question. The proposal is unacceptable.
D
Deleted member 5115
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Yes, but I think you missed the point. Muler wants to keep the strike option in our hands, not the IBT's. I like his idea but do not see how it can work. There should be a third option: No strike yet but get back to negotiating.
D
Docker
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I can't speak for Muler but IMO...that's why us ABFer's have to stick together and not let the Turncoat get away with anything like what he tried to with the beg back.Which I say was an insult and just plain deceitful to every ABFer. That's why I think he made the remark of watching the Turncoat closely. And knowing Muler like I do...that's a given.
A strike vote is taken separately. We as the bargaining party can TELL the IBT what is and is not acceptable. As many of you have seen the IBT and the companies for the most part have been telling the Rank and File what to do. This is not how it was meant to work. We have minds of our own. we know what we want and as far as the Texass Turncoat he was way off the mark with his take on the ABF wage reduction proposal. There is no way someone should not have been disciplined over the way that was handled . If it was the IBT economist who dropped the ball why is he still working at the IBT. Him and I had words at the vote count and those that were in the room can attest he had no answers for my questions. The day of us being pushed around MUST END! But it is us that will make it end. NOBODY WILL DO IT FOR US! YOUR BROTHER ALWAYS!
D
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It sounds good to me and I am with you. Together we will make it through this negotiation process.
nothumbleenough
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It seems illogical to worry about having a strike option when the rank and file cannot reach a consensus as to the most important issues for the negotiating teams focus on. As to the opinion above, I whole-heartly agree that the pension must resolve the multi-billion dollar withdrawl liability. I am no longer interested in giving up wages so the pension can remain on life-support. (having done so for the last 3 contracts)
Solving this issue will allow ABF the opportunity to compete with the likes of Estes or Conway. Doesn't mean they will triumph against the competition, but at least be in the game.
I would give them nothing more in the next contract. Don't change the greviance procedures. Keep the concept of a written contract that mutually ties together two separate and distinct parties working to better both individual situations. And when one party is outside of that agreement, the other party has the opportunity to correct a wrong. This of course is what separates us from the folks at Conway, Estes and other LTL employee's who have no recourse but to quit their job in the worst economy since the great depression.
Hell,I would to at least have a seat in the stands.Look at our bill count and you will see were in the parking lot without a ticket to the game.
Doesn't anyone read the finance section. ABF has over $130,000,000.00 that they are willing to spend to grow thru an acquisition. This means they are making money and lots of it. people talk about the pension funds and getting out. Where do those Brothers think we should go? And please don't say a 401k. After all that is what damaged our funds the most. Not the orphans, but the money invested in the stock market. If those that want too really look into the root cause of the damage to the funds look no farther than the crooks that invested our money. Also did anyone not read the ABF give back articles. ABF said the money saved thru the wage reduction and pension deferral would not be used for discounting the freight. That,s right they were not going to pass the savings on to the customers. As for the bill count did you ever stop too think ABF may not be wanting to discount any lower than they are currently doing.No let,s not start throwing rocks towards the union side of this mess. If we sell our Brother out today tomorrow we will be willing to sell the whole union out. ABF has some really smart leaders just do our jobs and let them do their jobs. Some talk of stopping payments into what they call a KILLER to ABF. What would you say to the thousands of ABF retirees that paid into those funds? You know the ones that suffered to get the pay where it is for all those currently working. For the health insurance they fought for that you all now ENJOY. And OH BY THE WAY YOUR HEALTH INSURANCE COST THE SAME AS THE PENSION PAYMENTS DO A MONTH! So why are those that worry about the cost of the pension not ask for reduction in that area? NO BROTHERS DON'T GO THERE! YOUR BROTHER ALWAYS! PS ABF Eyes Growth, Possible Strategic Purchase | Journal of Commerce
Come up with a cut off date then go back to some form of a rip plan? Pension plans have changed over the years now this is time for another change. Im sure the 6 figure boys will work it all out thats what we pay dues for.....lol
Double Barrel
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How many ABF employee's are looking to retire before next contract. I see at least 3 or 4 in the next 6 months and more as it gets closer to contract time at this location. The Teamster's still have one of the best retirement plans going. The Western states is in very solid ground and still offer early outs. It could be tough for ABF to just get out of the pension plans as they have a good cash reserve.
nothumbleenough
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Not trying to throw things at my fellow teamsters. There is an 800 pound gorilla in the room called the pension and it has a withdrawl liability. With all the monies being contributed, it is still massively underfunded. More so the Central States but the Western is not in near the shape it was 5 years ago due to both YRC and the drop in the market. Kicking the can down the road will only make the problem bigger and more difficult to deal with in the end.
You must start with an individual retirement account. You get to determine how you want to invest. Not individual stocks but mutual funds that charge only minimum fees like Vanguard or Fidelity. They have many options from Stocks Funds, Bond Funds, Gold Funds, Money Market Funds and Real Estate Funds. The point is, you determine not some banker with a wall street address.
Secondly, I wont waste my time trying to come up with the exact percentage, but no doubt a second fund will have to take small contributions from all working teamsters to make certain those that are retired continue to recieve their pension.
Lastly, everyone must understand a haircut is coming as it relates to how much we get in retirement. Don't have any clue just how much, but the numbers don't lie. There isn't enough money for everyone to get what they were promised.
Double Barrel
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Most people would like to have a define benefit and know what they are getting for life. So why are you giving away a plan retirement for a something that might be able to retire on.
Boilerpeddle
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Double Barrel said:
Well right now we dont "know" how much we will get. As far as that goes the folks running it have no idea how much we will get. Lots of retirees have recently been screwed.
Its broken. Its been broken since deregulation. We have been "kicking the can down the road" for quite some time.
I am lucky that I saw it when I became a teamster in 99 and made plans through my wifes retirement and my own 401 and ira contributions because as it is right now there wont be anything for left for me. BUT that doesnt mean I dont want them to fix it. Its part of my compensation.
nothumbleenough
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Because the define benefit aspect is a fantasy for those with many years to work. Because the pension is so underfunded, the contributions will have to increase to maintain current levels of funding. So basically, at the very best, your wages will not elevate, quite possible retreat just so the pension can stay at levels well below 50% of funding. And since ABF is essentially the only company of consequence paying into the pension, they carry an increased obligation being the last one standing.
oldertrucker
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ABF is not the only one paying into the plan. I met with a plan person a while back to see where I stand. According to him in the Western states there are 5200 different employers paying into this plan.Cops, bus drivers, bakery, warehouse, city workers, maintenance, waste and airline. I was told the plan we have is in good shape. It's not just freight. if anybody has any actual, proveable info that is more than just was so and so said, how about posting it so we can all know. Where does abf actually pay for the so called orphans
To answer your question. Anyone receiving a pension and their employer is no longer in business is an orphan. Therefore thousands of retires are being paid by the contributions of the companies that are still paying into the funds. But you are correct in your statement that ABF is not the only one paying. There are thousands of companies paying into all the funds. Some think that ABF is the only one but they are not. But ABF does pay a very high penalty each year on top of their already inflated rate. Because the CSPF is in the RED ZONE ABF and the other companies must pay 10% more than their normal payment to the fund. YOUR BROTHER ALWAYS.
nothumbleenough
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Taken from Central States Website. https://www.centralstatesfunds.org/CSF/Pdf/ISC-Letter-to-Judge-Shadur.pdf Look closely at page 8 when it talks about net assets. Roughly 55,000 currently paying into the pension, while 214,000 drawing a retirement check. Am pretty sure Websters would define that as a ponzi scheme with 1 working to 4 drawing a check. At least Social Security has roughly 2.5 working for every one drawing a paycheck. Draw your own conclusions.
nothumbleenough
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The term "orphans" is simply a canard orginally authored by former Yellow CEO Bill Zollars around 2007. The point he and others are trying to get across is that the remaining companies in NMFA have to pay more when other NMFA companies go out of business. Keep in mind UPS paid over 6 billion in cash a few years back. Don't know what their obligated withdrawl liability was at the time, but am confident it was a smart move on their part because they would have to pay lots more now that Yellow/Roadway fell on its butt and therefore their withdrawl liability would be more.