Ya they have to notify us before our seventh hour or we can tell them go suck an egg, eight and skate.
So you try real hard to blend in with the dunnage close to the magic hour. 
Yellow | Someone Please Tell Me This Is Not True
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So you try real hard to blend in with the dunnage close to the magic hour. 
Tom Drasko
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Come On
Kcm Driver Here Working The Dock And Driving Otr Big Diffrence I Worked The Dock And I Drive Now Union Steward Did 4 Dal In 1 Week Thats Messed Up We Did Try To Vote Her Ouy But Nogood Didnt Work Yes You Can Be On Duty Not Drive As Long As You Want But You Have To Have 10hrs Off Befor You Drive And All Time Counts Against You.....later Dudes
Kcm Driver Here Working The Dock And Driving Otr Big Diffrence I Worked The Dock And I Drive Now Union Steward Did 4 Dal In 1 Week Thats Messed Up We Did Try To Vote Her Ouy But Nogood Didnt Work Yes You Can Be On Duty Not Drive As Long As You Want But You Have To Have 10hrs Off Befor You Drive And All Time Counts Against You.....later Dudes
Actually, that's wrong. A common misconception. FMSA rules, either 392.5 or 395.2 (I can't remember which) say "All compensated hours must be accounted for." Technically, if the DOT wants to get tough, a farmer that feeds his hogs on his way to work must count that. A driver finishing his shift on the dock must count that. A side job, such as a guy that mows his neighbors grass for $$$, must legally count that. That's an extreme, and never brought up nor recognized, but the Law, nonetheless.....
As to the "how long you been in this business";.....38 years. Used to have to teach this stuff. Nobdy ever listens to me tho.....
jimmy g, sorry but what I've stated is totally correct! You claim that my statement is wrong but your comments do nothing to refute what I've said. You're only emphasizing some of the legal definitions (in section 395.2) of what constitutes "on duty time". And what I said is that the regulations (specifically Hours of Service which we are discussing here) restrict when a driver can DRIVE not when or how long he/she can work in any non-driving capacity.
Oh, and by the way, you're a relative newcomer in this business with only 38 years. I started in December 1966 which puts me at a bit over 41! :smilie_132:
larry retired
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jimmy g, sorry but what I've stated is totally correct! You claim that my statement is wrong but your comments do nothing to refute what I've said. You're only emphasizing some of the legal definitions (in section 395.2) of what constitutes "on duty time". And what I said is that the regulations (specifically Hours of Service which we are discussing here) restrict when a driver can DRIVE not when or how long he/she can work in any non-driving capacity.
Oh, and by the way, you're a relative newcomer in this business with only 38 years. I started in December 1966 which puts me at a bit over 41! :smilie_132:
You remember where a similar discussion led, don't you? I give you credit, you keep on trying to interject logic. Good luck! Fellow ECI over and out...
I do remember Larry!
I guess I don't know when to give up. Next time you catch me doing this give me a good smack across the side of my head!!
:smilie_132:Our TM got in trouble with the D O T a month ago for letting drivers on our dock go over in just such a way, so I'll stay out of it and let you do what you want. I see they are already back to doing it again. I was just reporting what the law says..... Personally, I care less what others do; I only control me, and I have a full time job mastering that!
larry retired
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They paid a huge fine plus several thousand in grievances for doing that out here after 911. So they know the consequences. Evidently they don't care. Easy come, easy go!
time in a bottle
I think the focus should not be whether a driver is allowed to, but rather should he? I have previously stated if a driver cant make a living in 70 hours, then he has more than an hours-of-service problem. That crap about saving hours is just that: Crap. If time can be saved , put it in a bottle and live forever! The greedy MEasters that jump to the top line so they can work/drive more are putting their jobs and public safety in jeopardy and screwing the junior man. Just 10 men at a barn falsifying logs by 'only' 4 hours, knocked a junior brother out of a 40 hour week.
I think the focus should not be whether a driver is allowed to, but rather should he? I have previously stated if a driver cant make a living in 70 hours, then he has more than an hours-of-service problem. That crap about saving hours is just that: Crap. If time can be saved , put it in a bottle and live forever! The greedy MEasters that jump to the top line so they can work/drive more are putting their jobs and public safety in jeopardy and screwing the junior man. Just 10 men at a barn falsifying logs by 'only' 4 hours, knocked a junior brother out of a 40 hour week.
What the LAW says is that you can't DRIVE when you have exceeded certain hours of service conditions. Doesn't say you can't work (non-driving) till the cows come home! You just can't drive again until you meet certain hours of service and rest conditions.
Since I don't know all the facts, I can't comment about what may have happened with a particular situation like what you've mentioned at your terminal. In addition, Yellow management and/or the union may have certain restrictions in place for the maximum number of hours someone may work. That's not what I've been commenting about. I'm talking strictly about Federal regulations.
Also, just because someone from DOT indicated that a violation occurred doesn't mean that the violation was correctly interpreted. Just because a cop gives you a ticket for some offense doesn't mean that his interpretation of the law is correct. A judge can find you not guilty can't he??
Many years ago, after I spoke out about some BS that was going on at my job, I lost an arbitration case when my TM and my BA tried to slip it to me. My BA, with his cigar hanging from his mouth said "tough break kid, you win some, you lose some". The NLRB said I had no case. I hired my own labor attorney and went to court. I lost in chancery court. I and my attorney appealed to the appellate level of state court. A three judge panel over-ruled the lower court and I won and the arbitration decision was reversed. The company tried to appeal to the state supreme court. The supreme court reviewed the appellate court decision and let it stand without even granting the company a hearing. The point of all of this is that not everyone in authority knows what they're talking about, even if it's their job to do so.
OK Larry, give me that smack now, looks like I've done it again!! :smilie_132:
I think the focus should not be whether a driver is allowed to, but rather should he? I have previously stated if a driver cant make a living in 70 hours, then he has more than an hours-of-service problem. That crap about saving hours is just that: Crap. If time can be saved , put it in a bottle and live forever! The greedy MEasters that jump to the top line so they can work/drive more are putting their jobs and public safety in jeopardy and screwing the junior man. Just 10 men at a barn falsifying logs by 'only' 4 hours, knocked a junior brother out of a 40 hour week.
I totally agree with you and I wonder how the safety dept. allows them to get away with "top line" when it's clearly illegal in most all cases.
S
Stan Smith
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I think the focus should not be whether a driver is allowed to, but rather should he? I have previously stated if a driver cant make a living in 70 hours, then he has more than an hours-of-service problem. That crap about saving hours is just that: Crap. If time can be saved , put it in a bottle and live forever! The greedy MEasters that jump to the top line so they can work/drive more are putting their jobs and public safety in jeopardy and screwing the junior man. Just 10 men at a barn falsifying logs by 'only' 4 hours, knocked a junior brother out of a 40 hour week.
Well $aid and the$e $ceam$ter$ need to be $topped. Call the DOT next time, that should slow that down a little. :shades:
larry retired
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Hey man, your story and your diligence are so compelling that all I can give you is a salute.
Triplex, I'm not arguing that sometimes things are wrong, especially in the eyes of the law (I'm basically an anarchist-- no laws-- every man for himself, but that's me).
What I'm sayng is; we must log all hours worked, per the FMSA. Work the dock beyond our 70 (in my case 60) and it waves a red flag to the DOT. A year down the road when an audit is performed, the DOT can fine Yellow for allowing people to work past their 60, because the law says they can. At that point it matters not whether the work was under a regulated driving condition or a non-regulated dock. The "all hours must be counted" rule of the FMSA kicks our butt either way. I'm done now. Too busy! I've got to go figure a way to work 2,000 hours under the radar now so I can make the payment on my 1974 Pinto I bought for a dollar down, 2 bucks a week until it's paid for at 300 % interest.....
It's also interesting that the guys at our barn that argue the "overage" is allowed argue that while standing in front of a message from our Local Prez that says our Local has had a rule for 50 years that NO ONE is to go over 60 hours-- ever! And the main guy saying we can is an ex-steward that runs again every election....
As Artie Johnson of Laugh In used to say: "vvvveeerrryyy iiinnnttteeerrreeerrreeessstttiiiinnnggg!"
What I'm sayng is; we must log all hours worked, per the FMSA. Work the dock beyond our 70 (in my case 60) and it waves a red flag to the DOT. A year down the road when an audit is performed, the DOT can fine Yellow for allowing people to work past their 60, because the law says they can. At that point it matters not whether the work was under a regulated driving condition or a non-regulated dock. The "all hours must be counted" rule of the FMSA kicks our butt either way. I'm done now. Too busy! I've got to go figure a way to work 2,000 hours under the radar now so I can make the payment on my 1974 Pinto I bought for a dollar down, 2 bucks a week until it's paid for at 300 % interest.....
It's also interesting that the guys at our barn that argue the "overage" is allowed argue that while standing in front of a message from our Local Prez that says our Local has had a rule for 50 years that NO ONE is to go over 60 hours-- ever! And the main guy saying we can is an ex-steward that runs again every election....
As Artie Johnson of Laugh In used to say: "vvvveeerrryyy iiinnnttteeerrreeerrreeessstttiiiinnnggg!"
yesteryear
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On the back of my (Roadway) logbook, it reads:
(1) You are not permitted to drive more than eleven (11) consecutive hours in any work period, nor are you permitted to drive or be on duty more than seventy (70) hours in any 8 day (192 hours) period, nor are you permitted to drive after 14 hours on duty.
Those are the rules I live by.
(1) You are not permitted to drive more than eleven (11) consecutive hours in any work period, nor are you permitted to drive or be on duty more than seventy (70) hours in any 8 day (192 hours) period, nor are you permitted to drive after 14 hours on duty.
Those are the rules I live by.
That's wonderful yesteryear! Only that's not what the Federal regulations say. That may be how Roadway wants to limit your hours but Federal regulations only restrict your DRIVING time. Check out section 395.3 of the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations at the FMCSA web site: Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration
PS - It's almost embarrassing to see how many "professional" drivers don't understand HOS regulations! :smilie_132:
yesteryear
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Calm down! It was just a fyi thing. Sheesh!
I'm calm yesteryear. Sorry if I gave you a different impression.
I thought that the smiley face at the end of my last comment would show that it was made with a touch of humor.