Yellow | The Coming War on Pensions

Freightmaster1

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This turns out to be the big picture at work for the next two years. Outside of Wall Street, the economy is not really growing. Obama is escalating military spending in his heating-up confrontation with Russia and China, and that will take a large part of the budget. More bailouts and subsidies for Wall Street over their derivatives bets – the rule that Senator Warren criticized – will eat up more government revenue.

So something must give – and the PBGC is one of the designated victims. The aim is to avoid government help for pension funds in arrears – and nearly all funds are in arrears, because of the basically malstructured idea of making money financially instead of helping the economy actually grow by investing to produce more goods and services and raise living standards.

Congress has just legislated the right to scale back pension funds if they’re managed by labor unions, e.g. on multi-employer contributors. This will hit blue collar labor the hardest, especially unionized building superintendents, and service workers.

Once this is done, the idea of rolling back pensions can spread to other kinds of pension funds besides union funds. State and local pensions, corporate pensions and even insurance company annuities can be cut back.

And the great aim at the end is to privatize Social Security. Scaling back labor union and corporate pension funds will enable Wall Street propagandists to come out and say, “See, the only way you can be safe is to have your own private accounts, and manage your own money.”

The problem with this approach is that “managing our own money” turns out to be deciding which Wall Street firm is going to manage it – and of course, they manage it in their own interest first and foremost. They do this by raking high management fees that keep most of the returns for their own salaries and bonuses. In the end, the place their clients funds in bad bets.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/01/05/the-coming-war-on-pensions/

:chairshot:
 
FM1, you win the post of the day. That is exactly what I got out of the 161 pages of the pension bill, a slow read and rest and read and digest, it is all in there. A very well planned bill to keep all of us working till we die. Thanks for all of the good information you put out there. Its me ESP
 
This turns out to be the big picture at work for the next two years. Outside of Wall Street, the economy is not really growing. Obama is escalating military spending in his heating-up confrontation with Russia and China, and that will take a large part of the budget. More bailouts and subsidies for Wall Street over their derivatives bets – the rule that Senator Warren criticized – will eat up more government revenue.

So something must give – and the PBGC is one of the designated victims. The aim is to avoid government help for pension funds in arrears – and nearly all funds are in arrears, because of the basically malstructured idea of making money financially instead of helping the economy actually grow by investing to produce more goods and services and raise living standards.

Congress has just legislated the right to scale back pension funds if they’re managed by labor unions, e.g. on multi-employer contributors. This will hit blue collar labor the hardest, especially unionized building superintendents, and service workers.

Once this is done, the idea of rolling back pensions can spread to other kinds of pension funds besides union funds. State and local pensions, corporate pensions and even insurance company annuities can be cut back.

And the great aim at the end is to privatize Social Security. Scaling back labor union and corporate pension funds will enable Wall Street propagandists to come out and say, “See, the only way you can be safe is to have your own private accounts, and manage your own money.”

The problem with this approach is that “managing our own money” turns out to be deciding which Wall Street firm is going to manage it – and of course, they manage it in their own interest first and foremost. They do this by raking high management fees that keep most of the returns for their own salaries and bonuses. In the end, the place their clients funds in bad bets.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/01/05/the-coming-war-on-pensions/

:chairshot:

I'm breaking my own self-imposed 6 week ban from this forum for this post:

All the combined wealth of the entire world is approx 60 trillion. The USA debt is 18 trillion with entitlement promises of over 150 trillion more. Citibank has more than one hundred trillion in derivatives, altogether all mortgage derivatives total 300 trillion. And the Fed is buying its own bonds for no one else will. They are backed by nothing.

The economy is 6 times more in debt than in 2008. Remember that bubble bursting???!

I understand the pension uncertainty. Especially to current retirees. But jealousy and crying solve nothing. Debt kills, and the Emperor isn't wearing clothes...

Its all yours again. Going back to exhile for 10 more days...
 
I'm breaking my own self-imposed 6 week ban from this forum for this post:



xtqsYIJ.jpg
 
This turns out to be the big picture at work for the next two years. Outside of Wall Street, the economy is not really growing. Obama is escalating military spending in his heating-up confrontation with Russia and China, and that will take a large part of the budget. More bailouts and subsidies for Wall Street over their derivatives bets – the rule that Senator Warren criticized – will eat up more government revenue.

So something must give – and the PBGC is one of the designated victims. The aim is to avoid government help for pension funds in arrears – and nearly all funds are in arrears, because of the basically malstructured idea of making money financially instead of helping the economy actually grow by investing to produce more goods and services and raise living standards.

Congress has just legislated the right to scale back pension funds if they’re managed by labor unions, e.g. on multi-employer contributors. This will hit blue collar labor the hardest, especially unionized building superintendents, and service workers.

Once this is done, the idea of rolling back pensions can spread to other kinds of pension funds besides union funds. State and local pensions, corporate pensions and even insurance company annuities can be cut back.

And the great aim at the end is to privatize Social Security. Scaling back labor union and corporate pension funds will enable Wall Street propagandists to come out and say, “See, the only way you can be safe is to have your own private accounts, and manage your own money.”

The problem with this approach is that “managing our own money” turns out to be deciding which Wall Street firm is going to manage it – and of course, they manage it in their own interest first and foremost. They do this by raking high management fees that keep most of the returns for their own salaries and bonuses. In the end, the place their clients funds in bad bets.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/01/05/the-coming-war-on-pensions/

:chairshot:
I thought you would be interested in this story I found on MSN: More bad news for people with pensions http://a.msn.com/00/en-us/AA7VLmc
 
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I'm breaking my own self-imposed 6 week ban from this forum for this post:

All the combined wealth of the entire world is approx 60 trillion. The USA debt is 18 trillion with entitlement promises of over 150 trillion more. Citibank has more than one hundred trillion in derivatives, altogether all mortgage derivatives total 300 trillion. And the Fed is buying its own bonds for no one else will. They are backed by nothing.

The economy is 6 times more in debt than in 2008. Remember that bubble bursting???!

I understand the pension uncertainty. Especially to current retirees. But jealousy and crying solve nothing. Debt kills, and the Emperor isn't wearing clothes...

Its all yours again. Going back to exhile for 10 more days...

It's absurd, nothing is REAL anymore.....not even boobs. We should have let the whole charade collapse in the crisis, flushed the toilet, kissed Goldman Sachs goodbye, and started over.
 
Hold on tight for the last two years of Obama.It's gonna be scary. Is Biden gonna make it. He looks like he is in early stages of senility.
 
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I thought you would be interested in this story I found on MSN: More bad news for people with pensions http://a.msn.com/00/en-us/AA7VLmc
Am I reading this right? The government expects to receive higher corporate taxes by allowing companies to defer tens of billions in pension fund contributions. Isn't that how the MEPFs got into it's underfunding mess?

In exchange for setting aside more money to fix an epidemic of potholes, Congress attached a rider allowing pension funds to "smooth" the way they account for long-term ups and downs of interest rates. That allowed companies to defer tens of billions in pension fund contributions, which the government expects to flow to the bottom line as bigger profits and generate higher corporate taxes.
 
Am I reading this right? The government expects to receive higher corporate taxes by allowing companies to defer tens of billions in pension fund contributions. Isn't that how the MEPFs got into it's underfunding mess?
You got it Crystal, this is one big plan to end the golden years for the middle class. While making the rich richer. BINGO !
 
There are some questions that need to be answered. If Nyhan lobbied congress to get the changes that were passed in the cromnibus bill, how come it will take up to a year to reveal what those changes will be? How is someone supposed to plan for their retirement future if they have no idea what they will get for a monthly benefit? Everything is being played very close to the vest. Information is hard to come by. This did not happen by accident. It leaves me to believe that this is only the beginning. Will the new congress go after all pensions. What deals has Obama already made? Remember he has been in bed with Wall Street from the beginning. Do the names Larry Summers and Timothy Gaitner ring a bell. Social Security could also be on the table. I do not trust it any longer. I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop!
 
B Worm you are real close to what is happening. Central States has to make sure everything is legal, as to what they want to do. Now this effects 1.5 million retirees right away, then as many as 10 million in the next three years. This is not just Central States, this is 1400 multi employee retirement funds. Yes it is to quiet for a reason, we do not know of yet. We can only wonder for the moment. Write your Senators and tell them your story. Also write the president as well. I know you do not think this will help, but do it anyway, in letter form, not the email. This is ESP
 
Maybe I should write my congressman. His name is John Kline. You know the one who co - wrote the bill.
 
Maybe I should write my congressman. His name is John Kline. You know the one who co - wrote the bill.
This is too surreal, YES !, you need to write to him and tell him, your story. He and his buddy Miller, wrote this whole nightmare up and shoved it down our throats, using the spending bill as a vehicle. They both will go down in history as the two who destroyed the nations pension system. OH! YES!, they will get their pension, which comes from the biggest underfunded pension fund in the world. (government pension funds). They did it in the name of saving the GREAT PBGC funds. Yes they think we can live on less, but they will not. The PBGC is in the hole 43 billion dollars. Trimming back current retiree's pension is not even a drop in the bucket for that stupid plan to work. If they can prop up the banks and auto industry with government funds why can't they save PBGC? and other pension funds? Because they want to cut off their nose to spite their face. When they do this, how will they receive enough tax dollars to save the country? What was left of the middle class and the self supporting senior citizens are all heading for disaster. When you cut 30% from around 10 million retiree's pensions, you eliminate their discretionary funds. Which means 30% less spending on homes, cars, repairs, boats, RVs, preventive health care, I could go on and on. It's just me ESP. OR IS THIS THEIR PLAN AFTER ALL???????????????????????????????????????
 
This is too surreal, YES !, you need to write to him and tell him, your story. He and his buddy Miller, wrote this whole nightmare up and shoved it down our throats, using the spending bill as a vehicle. They both will go down in history as the two who destroyed the nations pension system. OH! YES!, they will get their pension, which comes from the biggest underfunded pension fund in the world. (government pension funds). They did it in the name of saving the GREAT PBGC funds. Yes they think we can live on less, but they will not. The PBGC is in the hole 43 billion dollars. Trimming back current retiree's pension is not even a drop in the bucket for that stupid plan to work. If they can prop up the banks and auto industry with government funds why can't they save PBGC? and other pension funds? Because they want to cut off their nose to spite their face. When they do this, how will they receive enough tax dollars to save the country? What was left of the middle class and the self supporting senior citizens are all heading for disaster. When you cut 30% from around 10 million retiree's pensions, you eliminate their discretionary funds. Which means 30% less spending on homes, cars, repairs, boats, RVs, preventive health care, I could go on and on. It's just me ESP. OR IS THIS THEIR PLAN AFTER ALL???????????????????????????????????????
Why are you so concerned about the PBGC, if they swoop in you're looking at more like a 65% cut.
 
Why are you so concerned about the PBGC, if they swoop in you're looking at more like a 65% cut.
Not really concerned about PBGC, They can not afford to blow their own nose. If you read enough, especially the 161 page bill. They talk a lot about saving the PBGC, from having to take more bankrupt funds under their wing. So in trying to save the PBGC, they want all multiemployer funds to take the necessary cuts to avoid bankruptcy, therefore, they will not have to take them in and the government will not have to bail out PBGC. Even with doubling the cost of insurance per employee to the PBGC, there will not be enough to save them anyway. So the farce of a plan to cut our pensions' by such high percentages are to no avail. So hurting us, is not helping the situation at all. Sorry, I confused you before this. I am just trying to say the money they are taking from us is a waste. ESP
 
John Kline has always been anti labor. I am embarrassed to say that he is my representative. However both of my senators, Al Franken and Amy Klobuchar, voted against the cromnibus bill. I will contact both of them by mail. Can't hurt. The sad thing is that public opinion is not on our side. The average individual does not understand the impact that the labor movement has had on their lives. They take things like the 40 hour work week, overtime pay, sick leave, health insurance, paid holidays, vacations, OSHA, child labor, and other various labor law protections for granted. It is just like they were always around. A whole generation of leaders that established the labor unions, fought and died for these rights that we now enjoy. They are now being systematically destroyed by our current so-called labor leaders and their political allies. Walter Ruether is rolling over in his grave. It's a shame that everything that was fought for years ago is slowly slipping away. Here is the bottom line about our pensions. The average person does not believe we deserve them. They have drank the kool aid and think that we are the problem. They will not support the bailout of something that they themselves do not get. They do not realize that this is the tip of the iceberg. If the union worker's compensation continues to erode, everyone will take a hit. We set the bar. The anti labor propaganda machine has done a good job. Just look at a state like Wisconsin for example. The roots of the progressive labor movement started there. Last year they just re-elected Scott Walker, who basically busted the public employee unions. What gives? Have people forgotten the past. Does anyone study history? Remember the robber barons? It's happening all over again. They own the politicians. Write the laws. Appoint the judges. Game, set, match! We will most likely continue on this downward spiral until we reach another tipping point. Hopefully history will also repeat itself then. Perhaps the labor movement will rise again.
 
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John Kline has always been anti labor. I am embarrassed to say that he is my representative. However both of my senators, Al Franken and Amy Klobuchar, voted against the cromnibus bill. I will contact both of them by mail. Can't hurt. The sad thing is that public opinion is not on our side. The average individual does not understand the impact that the labor movement has had on their lives. They take things like the 40 hour work week, overtime pay, sick leave, health insurance, paid holidays, vacations, OSHA, child labor, and other various labor law protections for granted. It is just like they were always around. A whole generation of leaders that established the labor unions, fought and died for these rights that we now enjoy. They are now being systematically destroyed by our current so-called labor leaders and their political allies. Walter Ruether is rolling over in his grave. It's a shame that everything that was fought for years ago is slowly slipping away. Here is the bottom line about our pensions. The average person does not believe we deserve them. They have drank the kool aid and think that we are the problem. They will not support the bailout of something that they themselves do not get. They do not realize that this is the tip of the iceberg. If the union worker's compensation continues to erode, everyone will take a hit. We set the bar. The anti labor propaganda machine has done a good job. Just look at a state like Wisconsin for example. The roots of the progressive labor movement started there. Last year they just re-elected Scott Walker, who basically busted the public employee unions. What gives? Have people forgotten the past. Does anyone study history? Remember the robber barons? It's happening all over again. They own the politicians. Write the laws. Appoint the judges. Game, set, match! We will most likely continue on this downward spiral until we reach another tipping point. Hopefully history will also repeat itself then. Perhaps the labor movement will rise again.

You make many good points here, but I have to disagree with you regarding public sector unions. Both FDR and George Meany, ardent private sector union advocates, were not in favor of public sector unionization. There is no way for fair bargaining to take place in monopolistic public sector environments. Bargaining makes sense when unions want a fair share of corporate profits. There is no "profit" in the public sector. The taxpayers have no real representation and get screwed all the time.
 
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