FedEx Freight | The Union Debate Thread

[aflifer]

Not backhanded at all, at least not intended to be. I just recall most every year when compared to cost of living index, our wage did not seem to keep up. Without having documentation to prove it, I can't say for certain. I do know that I did look it up at the time, during our annual speculation period approaching the annual raise video.

Even your stated 2010 top wage of $21.60 shows that before the 80 cents we recently received, our raises were indeed flat. rising just 5.9% between 2010 and Sept of 2014. During the same period, inflation totaled 7.2%

Yes, I agree that year for year the increase did not always meet or surpass the general inflation rate. When stacked up with the rest of the industry in that timeframe, for the most part we made out quite well. Most all the other major carriers were either frozen or reduced. Some still have not gotten increases at all. Regardless, I look more at the behaviors. When we are profitable, you see a good % passed on to the employees in the form of some benefit enhancement. That is why I see the past year as very much a positive..........finally returning to solid financial performance and a substantial raise.........

One of the added benefits was insurance coverage to part time workers. An admirable gesture, but one that reduced the full time employees' increase that year.

I am sure the cost on that was pretty significant, but also necessary........probably the best way to curb high turnover rates and develop a more experienced part time workforce....

We're unlikely to agree on which portion of the equation reflects our value as employees. I still contend revenue shows the value, more than profit. BUT neither is a direct factor to FedEx. Revenue has risen by huge amounts. almost every year. Profits, which you prefer to use, soared up until 2006/2007, reaching a high of 485 million in 2006. 52% higher than 2014. 2006 profits were also 151% higher than 2003. Again, our compensation showed no relationship to profits. The numbers don't lie.

Honestly, I dont think either revenue or profit are indicative of employee value. Both can be impacted by too many other factors outside of the scope of the employees.........revenue simply by pricing actions (we have seen that).......profit by acquisitions and pricing driven margin loss (we have seen that too)........not sure there is really a good gauge for employee value to the organization. I like the profit figure simply because it indicates where the means (opportunity) is greatest for the organization to share proceeds with us employees. Like I said, I look at behaviors, most of the time when we have seen the higher profit levels we have seen some form of enhancement.

Raises were there..........as stated before, I dont necessarily recall them being earth shattering. However, those were the years the bonus was paying out at 300-500 bucks a quarter........what kind of % raise would 1200-2000 a year be? If we continue down the Operating income road we are on, we will be in position to see those type results in conjunction with the yearly base wage increase......

Finally, the 90/90 program. That was not a myth, as it was covered during meeting the city drivers had with sales. It was during the period of the near demise of YRC. The only proof I can find at the moment is this article. It is very interesting and covers manipulation of rates (industry wide) as well as mentions the 90/90 program. I found it to be informative. check it out: http://www.smartfreightware.com/author/jim-bramlett/page/13/

Hmm....certainly might have been presented that way, but I will still contend that there was not a blanket program with those parameters company-wide. I would fathom a guess that this type of mis-communication is one of the reasons the situation snowballed a bit out of hand......

Interesting article........I will note that he never states that FXF was responsible for any 90/90 program. What is also ironic, if you flip a couple of pages back on his blog, he has an article in July 2010 about FXF and Conway both holding steady and stubborn on pricing........

Catch you on the flip side.......take care........

 

[Snark Monkey]

When you compare the same working conditions it is good. You are trying to compare a 10 stop 300 mile city peddle run with a route that has 10 deliveries on the same street. Your trying to cloud the picture but his point is understood .. At least by me

Ten Stops? Whew! Slow down train! How about we stick in the 6 or 7 delivery range, then a one stop full-trailer live load. I'll work on my puzzle book while Dorothy loads up the wagon. Now that's what I'm talk'n bout!

 

[Redracer3136]

Ask the person that wanted to compare profits with the orange analogy.

As for your question.
Even you admitted variables. There isn't any way to determine comparisons between drivers and routes, even in the same area, route, etc.
Just not possible.
Only management can produce numbers that would compare an impossible scenario of truck drivers, delivery's, routes and traffic conditions and then think they can decide if one is doing better then another.
No, it's not rocket science.

Yes, there are variables but comparisons can still be made.
For example, when the route driver is on vacation for a week and the same driver covers his route for that same week, a weekly comparison can be made using the adjusted variables for the whole week.
If the fill-in driver has more stops per hour, less miles between stops, etc... for the week vs the bid route driver, then it can be said that the fill-in driver is more efficient at the said route than the bid driver...and since we bid on start times in the city, not routes, the argument can be made for the fill-in driver to continue to run the said route due to the fact that he IS more efficient. If after a few weeks the fill-in driver is STILL posting better numbers than the former bid route driver, all variables would then be considered null and void due to the fact that he's STILL posting better numbers over an extended period of time.

 

[SwampRatt]

Now that I've made that argument, I wonder where FedEx falls in line with the other LTL's in regards to NET PROFIT per employee?

I feel pretty confident, if provided access to the numbers on our top 5 competitors that I could show FedEx getting their money's worth and then some.

We can start with my favorite comparison based on gross revenue

I'm also certain that I could show a similar advantage using pure profit as the metric. I don't have time to dig into every other company's financials. Suffice to say FedEx is very strong in the profit department. I do need to look at Conway and see exactly where they'd fall in the comparison.

I pretty sure we can show a higher value for the FedEx workforce using just about any metric you'd like.

Only one carrier that I know of beats us in one area. Old Dominion beats us in Operating Ratio, hands down. So perhaps O/R may show their drivers to be worth more than ours. But wait, they already make more than we do in my area...

 

[SwampRatt]

In other words, please don't offset my wages with more insurance than I want and tell me you've added value to my compensation package.

Now THAT is an excellent point. That's why I always say "I" would prefer all gains go directly into wages.

 

[SwampRatt]

Some ignored content for me between posts, so I'm not sure how the point was attempted to be clouded.

Bottom line is: You can have employees generating a crap-ton of revenue but if they cause you to lose money while doing so, their efforts aren't valuable.

How can a workforce generating a crop-ton of money CAUSE you to loose money?

 

[EX396]

I feel pretty confident, if provided access to the numbers on our top 5 competitors that I could show FedEx getting their money's worth and then some.

You would be correct. I looked at the publicly-traded companies because the data is easy to find, number of employees not so easy but I found some reasonable estimates for some. UPS doesn't break out figures for Freight alone, so their numbers could change a bit.

However, the order from the most profit per employee to the least profit per employee is as follows (publicly traded LTL only):

Fed Ex Freight, ODFL, UPS*, SAIA, CNWY, ABFS, YRCW.

I fear a pretty graph coming illustrating just how much profit FedEx Freight generates for each employee relative to the others. Again, I'm on the same page as you regarding sharing a larger piece of the pie, keeping employees and shareholders happy. Just not on how you get there. If you make that pretty graph make sure you include YRCW and ArcBest. ;)

* I am unable to get exact profit and employee numbers for UPS Freight as they don't break out Freight division only in their financial statements. They also don't include approximately 100,000 temporary seasonal workers in their total employee numbers. Any way you slice it there seems to be enough of a range between ODFL and SAIA that UPS still falls between the two.

How can a workforce generating a crap-ton of money CAUSE you to lose money?

If it cost $1.01 for every $1.00 they generate I don't want them generating a crap-ton of money.

YRCW loses over a $1/hr. for each employee.

 

[SwampRatt]

You would be correct. I looked at the publicly-traded companies because the data is easy to find, number of employees not so easy but I found some reasonable estimates for some. UPS doesn't break out figures for Freight alone, so their numbers could change a bit.

However, the order from the most profit per employee to the least profit per employee is as follows (publicly traded LTL only):

Fed Ex Freight, ODFL, UPS*, SAIA, CNWY, ABFS, YRCW.

I fear a pretty graph coming illustrating just how much profit FedEx Freight generates for each employee relative to the others. Again, I'm on the same page as you regarding sharing a larger piece of the pie, keeping employees and shareholders happy. Just not on how you get there. If you make that pretty graph make sure you include YRCW and ArcBest. ;)

* I am unable to get exact profit and employee numbers for UPS Freight as they don't break out Freight division only in their financial statements. They also don't include approximately 100,000 temporary seasonal workers in their total employee numbers. Any way you slice it there seems to be enough of a range between ODFL and SAIA that UPS still falls between the two.

Thanks for verifying my suspicions. You didn't have to
A pretty graph would be nice. That would take some time to gather exact numbers. Sounds like a good rainy day project.

What's the deal with ArcBest, are they not related to ABF? Are they in pretty bad shape? I do see you showed ABF to be above YRC in profit/per rankings... even though they spend more on compensation relative to revenue. Now I'm interested in how that pans out.

 

[SwampRatt]

If it cost $1.01 for every $1.00 they generate I don't want them generating a crap-ton of money.

YRCW loses over a $1/hr. for each employee.

But EX, Just because costs are shown on a per employee basis, doesn't mean that the employees are that cost. If management incurred unreasonable debt, buying up competitors, would that debt (cost) and the cause thereof, not fall on management?

I'm thinking if they generate the (growing) revenue, they've done their job. Your management team is responsible for turning a profit on that revenue. Without first having revenue, you can not have profit. Right?

 

[SwampRatt]

Yes, I agree that year for year the increase did not always meet or surpass the general inflation rate. When stacked up with the rest of the industry in that timeframe, for the most part we made out quite well. Most all the other major carriers were either frozen or reduced. Some still have not gotten increases at all. Regardless, I look more at the behaviors. When we are profitable, you see a good % passed on to the employees in the form of some benefit enhancement. That is why I see the past year as very much a positive..........finally returning to solid financial performance and a substantial raise.........



I am sure the cost on that was pretty significant, but also necessary........probably the best way to curb high turnover rates and develop a more experienced part time workforce....



Honestly, I dont think either revenue or profit are indicative of employee value. Both can be impacted by too many other factors outside of the scope of the employees.........revenue simply by pricing actions (we have seen that).......profit by acquisitions and pricing driven margin loss (we have seen that too)........not sure there is really a good gauge for employee value to the organization. I like the profit figure simply because it indicates where the means (opportunity) is greatest for the organization to share proceeds with us employees. Like I said, I look at behaviors, most of the time when we have seen the higher profit levels we have seen some form of enhancement.

Raises were there..........as stated before, I dont necessarily recall them being earth shattering. However, those were the years the bonus was paying out at 300-500 bucks a quarter........what kind of % raise would 1200-2000 a year be? If we continue down the Operating income road we are on, we will be in position to see those type results in conjunction with the yearly base wage increase......



Hmm....certainly might have been presented that way, but I will still contend that there was not a blanket program with those parameters company-wide. I would fathom a guess that this type of mis-communication is one of the reasons the situation snowballed a bit out of hand......

Interesting article........I will note that he never states that FXF was responsible for any 90/90 program. What is also ironic, if you flip a couple of pages back on his blog, he has an article in July 2010 about FXF and Conway both holding steady and stubborn on pricing........

Catch you on the flip side.......take care........

Fair points, all. Especially the quarterly bonus impact on our (drivers') bottom line, back in the day...

Only thing that I think needs clarifying, on the 90/90 program:
"Hmm....certainly might have been presented that way, but I will still contend that there was not a blanket program with those parameters company-wide. I would fathom a guess that this type of mis-communication is one of the reasons the situation snowballed a bit out of hand......"

I seem to recall that is was only available to "new" customers. It was an effort to bring in business from customers who historically used "another" carrier (or carriers).

 

[fxstc07]

Yes, there are variables but comparisons can still be made.
For example, when the route driver is on vacation for a week and the same driver covers his route for that same week, a weekly comparison can be made using the adjusted variables for the whole week.

Good, let's start here.
The driver that is on vacation is 56 years old, a 30 year veteran of the company and has always been a steady and productive employe. Yet his age and health isn't what it used it be after years of abuse in the industry.

If the fill-in driver has more stops per hour, less miles between stops, etc... for the week vs the bid route driver, then it can be said that the fill-in driver is more efficient at the said route than the bid driver.

Restart here:
The fill in driver is 26 years old, a 2 year veteran of the company and like any youthful person, can run circles around someone 30 years his senior.
He gets less vacation time, may ( or may not be ) at full rate, so in effect, he can outperform the older driver on vacation and show a higher revenue per bills delivered.

and since we bid on start times in the city, not routes, the argument can be made for the fill-in driver to continue to run the said route due to the fact that he IS more efficient. If after a few weeks the fill-in driver is STILL posting better numbers than the former bid route driver, all variables would then be considered null and void due to the fact that he's STILL posting better numbers over an extended period of time.

Of course he can continue to do whatever management wants. The numbers clearly show he can outperform the older driver and post better revenue.
Without a seniority system in place, management can assign work however they feel. They may not like the older driver due to a personality conflict and can assign him work that is harder and more demanding even though he is a senior employee of the company.

Again, comparisons are not possible within the LTL trucking industry as you have stated.
Also, bid start times are used in some places, other areas bid runs.

 

[runawaytrain]

Ten Stops? Whew! Slow down train! How about we stick in the 6 or 7 delivery range, then a one stop full-trailer live load. I'll work on my puzzle book while Dorothy loads up the wagon. Now that's what I'm talk'n bout!

Hypothetical .. You know that ... Any way many of these guys have way too much time on their hands. I will send you a PM ... What we have here is a massive pissing contest with way too much damn time doing research for something they have no control over.

 

[runawaytrain]

Everything has to be so serious. Sad really.

 

[EX396]

What's the deal with ArcBest, are they not related to ABF? Are they in pretty bad shape? I do see you showed ABF to be above YRC in profit/per rankings... even though they spend more on compensation relative to revenue. Now I'm interested in how that pans out.

ArcBest is the new-ish name of the parent corporation. You may notice a wave of new logo/color schemes showing up on equipment/terminals near you soon. They spend more on compensation relative to revenue, but likely have much lower debt levels to service as well as some really, really old run-down terminals.

 

[EX396]

But EX, Just because costs are shown on a per employee basis, doesn't mean that the employees are that cost. If management incurred unreasonable debt, buying up competitors, would that debt (cost) and the cause thereof, not fall on management?

I'm thinking if they generate the (growing) revenue, they've done their job. Your management team is responsible for turning a profit on that revenue. Without first having revenue, you can not have profit. Right?

In my opinion everybody is stewing in the same pot. There are very slim margins in the industry. Poor performance by anybody will wipe out that profit. An errant fork-tine, a slow and/or careless driver, a pricing department discounting the freight too much, a management team with too many layers, an expense account too lavish....any weak link in that chain can wipe out all that profit. Any side assuming they are more/less responsible for the gains/losses of the company than the other is dangerous.

 

[runawaytrain]

Hypothetical .. You know that ... Any way many of these guys have way too much time on their hands. I will send you a PM ... What we have here is a massive pissing contest with way too much damn time doing research for something they have no control over.

If I'm going to be doing research on things in my spare time it will be about things I can control ... IE .......... My IRA investments ... I don't mean to be condescending but it just seems to me many just keep rehashing the same old :: over and over. Things that will never change unless you start your own company and make those changes. If your just bored and have nothing better to do than to try and out **** your fellow trucker or manager then fine. I just hope that your not so blind that you think you can actually do anything to create a change. You can shout at the rain all day long but if the clouds exist it won't stop the rain.

 

[fxstc07]

If I'm going to be doing research on things in my spare time it will be about things I can control ... IE .......... My IRA investments ... I don't mean to be condescending but it just seems to me many just keep rehashing the same old :::: over and over. Things that will never change unless you start your own company and make those changes. If your just bored and have nothing better to do than to try and out **** your fellow trucker or manager then fine. I just hope that your not so blind that you think you can actually do anything to create a change. You can shout at the rain all day long but if the clouds exist it won't stop the rain.

You can create change.
Join the union movement at Fedex. Vote YES for representation.
It has already created change, and more will follow.
Those rain clouds are over managements head.

 

[runawaytrain]

You can create change.
Join the union movement at Fedex. Vote YES for representation.
It has already created change, and more will follow.
Those rain clouds are over managements head.

I won't go there ... All I can do is wish you the best. I'm not being sarcastic. We just differ in our opinions. The union has opened Fedex's eyes and they are making changes. The same at Conway. I just can't see you getting more with the Teamsters. Only less.This is just my opinion and I've been wrong before. I just don't think so this time.

 

[joes bar and grill]

If I'm going to be doing research on things in my spare time it will be about things I can control ... IE .......... My IRA investments ... I don't mean to be condescending but it just seems to me many just keep rehashing the same old :::: over and over. Things that will never change unless you start your own company and make those changes. If your just bored and have nothing better to do than to try and out **** your fellow trucker or manager then fine. I just hope that your not so blind that you think you can actually do anything to create a change. You can shout at the rain all day long but if the clouds exist it won't stop the rain.

That's right RAT take what they give you and be happy you have a job.

 

[runawaytrain]

That's right RAT take what they give you and be happy you have a job.

See Joe that's the thing ... Saia gives me what the market bears ... They also give me something money can't buy .. A pleasant work environment. I learned long ago Joe ... About happiness ... It's an inside job.