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Yellow | Bid from car hauler to revive defunct Yellow has shippers skeptical

Puff Driver said:
A major issue at Yellow was the network was way too large for the daily amount of shipments handled.
If this ever was to happen, where would that business come from?
Jack Cooper would need to have customer commitments months ahead of any upstart of the network.
Running empties is death for LTL carrier, it is a necessary evil but it need to be minimal.
The industry has too much capacity right now.
A 'better NMFA' will never happen without a commitment from customers for 30,000 daily shipments or more...
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Well..... The government has a big stake in the company. I realize that is just one customer. But a important big one.
 
Puff Driver said:
A major issue at Yellow was the network was way too large for the daily amount of shipments handled.
If this ever was to happen, where would that business come from?
Jack Cooper would need to have customer commitments months ahead of any upstart of the network.
Running empties is death for LTL carrier, it is a necessary evil but it need to be minimal.
The industry has too much capacity right now.
A 'better NMFA' will never happen without a commitment from customers for 30,000 daily shipments or more...
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Estes is limiting its empties.
 
EX396 said:
You mean the same government they were cheating with W&I corrections that only went one way?
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Understand a company wants paid for what they do, but some of that W/I was a scam.
Saw a metal container tote ( full) come through one time, W/I clerk at outbound terminal classed tote as one class ( empty) and the product as another class. That one was caught, how many weren’t caught?
Shipper puts wrong weight on a collect shipment, customer on the other end gets billed for correction. Asked sales rep about that, he said that is for the customer to take up with shipper. Holland could reweigh a shipment and if it was in shippers favor it would correct the cost, Yellow took over and that was changed, never went down only up.
 
dokman said:
Understand a company wants paid for what they do, but some of that W/I was a scam.
Saw a metal container tote ( full) come through one time, W/I clerk at outbound terminal classed tote as one class ( empty) and the product as another class. That one was caught, how many weren’t caught?
Shipper puts wrong weight on a collect shipment, customer on the other end gets billed for correction. Asked sales rep about that, he said that is for the customer to take up with shipper. Holland could reweigh a shipment and if it was in shippers favor it would correct the cost, Yellow took over and that was changed, never went down only up.
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I realize there's a ton of W&I/W&R errors out there. A Fortune 500 company (ranked in top 200) understates the weight on the bill of lading every single LTL shipment by 10% or more. This isn't "their best guess, they don't have a scale". This is purposely done. The product has its weight stamped into the ID plate on every piece of equipment that leaves their facility. If they get hit with a W&I that National Sales doesn't get involved in reversing they just change carriers. It's like a revolving door with carriers. Why not just state the weight correctly and negotiate a larger discount?
 
EX396 said:
I realize there's a ton of W&I/W&R errors out there. A Fortune 500 company (ranked in top 200) understates the weight on the bill of lading every single LTL shipment by 10% or more. This isn't "their best guess, they don't have a scale". This is purposely done. The product has its weight stamped into the ID plate on every piece of equipment that leaves their facility. If they get hit with a W&I that National Sales doesn't get involved in reversing they just change carriers. It's like a revolving door with carriers. Why not just state the weight correctly and negotiate a larger discount?
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I know of a customer that knew what each part weighs, they multiplied by piece count. They did not have a platform scale. So they guessed a pallet weight, not all weigh the same, tried to estimate weight of boxes and shrink wrap. They made a valid effort but got dinged multiple times. Maybe this was case with government over charge? Over estimate and it hurts under and it hurts. I know of some customers that ship bulk product, liquid, powder etc. some production software generates invoices by weight of product or gallons.Customer orders( 100 gallon) and bills customers accordingly and freight bill is generated from invoices with no dunnage weight included. Unfortunately some software does not account for dunnage weight and that and causes a big problem. I often thought if a customer keeps having getting charges maybe send a driver and sales rep out and try and figure out what the problem is, not everyone is try to screw the carrier.
 
As I understand it the suit was based on the fact that YRC would W&I a shipment and not make an adjustment based on findings unless it was in YRC's favor. It shows a problem with the W&I process within YRC to begin with. They shouldn't have initiated an official W&I until they've identified the discrepancy.
 
EX396 said:
As I understand it the suit was based on the fact that YRC would W&I a shipment and not make an adjustment based on findings unless it was in YRC's favor. It shows a problem with the W&I process within YRC to begin with. They shouldn't have initiated an official W&I until they've identified the discrepancy.
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At Holland if something was weighted and in customer’s favor it got changed. A big shot said in a meeting “we just want paid for what we are hauling “ YRC came along and took over W/I. Had a supervisor that was told you are now working for Yellow, and getting paid by Yellow, in the Holland building with Holland employees still getting Holland pay checks. Guys started asking questions “ hey I had a shipment that said 4,175 pounds I weighed it and it was only 3,180 can you see if it got changed “ You guessed it YRC disabled that feature in the program. We had a dock guy go ballistic on management over that. Question is was that fraud?
 
dokman said:
At Holland if something was weighted and in customer’s favor it got changed. A big shot said in a meeting “we just want paid for what we are hauling “ YRC came along and took over W/I. Had a supervisor that was told you are now working for Yellow, and getting paid by Yellow, in the Holland building with Holland employees still getting Holland pay checks. Guys started asking questions “ hey I had a shipment that said 4,175 pounds I weighed it and it was only 3,180 can you see if it got changed “ You guessed it YRC disabled that feature in the program. We had a dock guy go ballistic on management over that. Question is was that fraud?
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I don't know if it constitutes fraud or not. IMO, certainly not a honorable way to conduct business.

As to legality it depends on how it reads in the tariff. If the tariff states that shipments misclassified or where the weight is found to be incorrect shall be corrected. That's a slam-dunk. Shall, does not allow for discretion.

If it says that shipments may be weighed and/or inspected and in events where it is discovered that weights or classes are incorrect YRC reserves the right to make the correction. That's clearly up to YRC discretion without obligation.
 
Stimpy said:
Well..... The government has a big stake in the company. I realize that is just one customer. But a important big one.
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Maybe, but once Yellow liquidates the government gets its money back.
That government freight is gone, unless the new company can do it much cheaper.. We all know what that leads to....
 
Puff Driver said:
Maybe, but once Yellow liquidates the government gets its money back.
That government freight is gone, unless the new company can do it much cheaper.. We all know what that leads to....
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That's not entirely true.....the new tractors and trailers do have liens on them, but the first part of the loan was unsecured (the portion that paid health and welfare)..... this is what I have read when it all went down, I will try to find a link....so the government will get in line with all other unsecured creditors...

Update, I couldn't find anything that explicitly said it was unsecured but I did find this that leads me to believe it is....why would you receive stock for a secured loan? It is my understanding that shareholders are low on the list of people getting paid....

"The company used the loan to meet payroll, health care, pension costs and capital investments. Yellow said the loan helped keep employees on the payroll. The company employed about 30,000 employees at the time, 24,000 of whom belonged to the Teamsters union.

In return for the loan, the Treasury received nearly 16 million shares of Yellow common stock, making it the company’s largest shareholder with nearly 30% of its outstanding shares."
 
dokman said:
At Holland if something was weighted and in customer’s favor it got changed. A big shot said in a meeting “we just want paid for what we are hauling “ YRC came along and took over W/I. Had a supervisor that was told you are now working for Yellow, and getting paid by Yellow, in the Holland building with Holland employees still getting Holland pay checks. Guys started asking questions “ hey I had a shipment that said 4,175 pounds I weighed it and it was only 3,180 can you see if it got changed “ You guessed it YRC disabled that feature in the program. We had a dock guy go ballistic on management over that. Question is was that fraud?
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Yes its fraud. They charged the customer for poundage that was not actually there, and it sounds like this happened on a constant level. Would you think it was fraud if you paid for 20 gallons of gas but really only got 16 gallons put into your tank?
 
ABF381 said:
That's not entirely true.....the new tractors and trailers do have liens on them, but the first part of the loan was unsecured (the portion that paid health and welfare)..... this is what I have read when it all went down, I will try to find a link....so the government will get in line with all other unsecured creditors...

Update, I couldn't find anything that explicitly said it was unsecured but I did find this that leads me to believe it is....why would you receive stock for a secured loan?

"The company used the loan to meet payroll, health care, pension costs and capital investments. Yellow said the loan helped keep employees on the payroll. The company employed about 30,000 employees at the time, 24,000 of whom belonged to the Teamsters union.

In return for the loan, the Treasury received nearly 16 million shares of Yellow common stock, making it the company’s largest shareholder with nearly 30% of its outstanding shares."
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Sounds like some kind of shell game and more corrupt govt intervention.
 
steercrazee said:
Yes its fraud. They charged the customer for poundage that was not actually there, and it sounds like this happened on a constant level. Would you think it was fraud if you paid for 20 gallons of gas but really only got 16 gallons put into your tank?
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You have a point, but, the government is saying they got the twenty gallons, that is what they are stating.....the thing I do wonder about is this...the government states a weight on a pallet and puts it in writing, do they not have scales?
Why do they do this? To avoid paying reweigh charges most likely....now this is just a guess here, but knowing the government they probably refuse to pay reweigh charges...then turn around and complain they are overcharged when it is their responsibility to state the correct weight to begin with.....I'm not defending Yellow at all here, but I just wonder if that is it....
 
Real Teamster said:
Stimp, you're absolutely right. So are you saying the IBT can only handle two tasks at a time, and the third one is overwhelming for them? Reality is (and I've said this many times before) that O'Brien and his ego put the final nail in the coffin. Mind you, there were plenty of nails already in the coffin beforehand.
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Tell him thanks, for that final nail.
 
ABF381 said:
You have a point, but, the government is saying they got the twenty gallons, that is what they are stating.....the thing I do wonder about is this...the government states a weight on a pallet and puts it in writing, do they not have scales?
Why do they do this? To avoid paying reweigh charges most likely....now this is just a guess here, but knowing the government they probably refuse to pay reweigh charges...then turn around and complain they are overcharged when it is their responsibility to state the correct weight to begin with.....I'm not defending Yellow at all here, but I just wonder if that is it....
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There are thousands of small suppliers that have government contracts that ship parts from small facilities, some in residential districts, from a 2 car garage. They make a part with little knowledge or none of what it is for. I have delivered to an individual that did this big home with a detached garage, and a forklift. He would make his parts and put freight on pallet and send it to another location. He said the US learned years ago that the big factory ( like GE in the day) was to vulnerable to attacks. He said you would be shocked at the number of micro small manufacturers like him around the country. He was a one man band. So my guess is this might be where some of the problems originated from. Not to mention changing the freight class on the shipment.
 
The government said fill up my tank. Probably take 20 gallons. Yellow fills it up and takes 22. Charges them a fee for underestimating as well as the 2 extra gallons. Next time government says it's 23 gallons to be safe because the fee was more than the extra fuel. Yellow fills it up and it takes 21, yet still charges them for the estimate. That's not fraud if that's how the contract reads.
 
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