R&L | Engaged to Wait law about to be Violated in Denver

[MrTuttle]

Got this in the email today!

Not quite sure if this is BM's idea or MJ's idea or maybe MJ suggesting this to BM?

Either way starting Friday June 5th the idea is to have drivers show up at scheduled times (I.E 8-9-10-11 Am) And wait at the terminal without punching in at the time clock and waiting until there routes are ready to go then punching in on the time clock.

The previous months activities have shown that this could be anywhere from 30 minuets to several hours! This was brought to the attention of drivers during a June 4 2009, 9 AM Drivers meeting with BM (the TM) as told by BM.

Later in the day a certain driver discussed this issue with BM, whom in turn back peddled and stated that they (the drivers) misunderstood him and that what he meant was that you as a driver were required to show up at your scheduled time, check your trailer to see how far along it is as being loaded, then check in with him (BM) to see if you can punch in.

Either way this is a breech in Federal law, yes the Department of Labor has been contacted about these actions and both were confirmed to be in violation of the Engaged to Wait Law by the Department of Labor!

This is how class action law suites happen! Not good for employee's, not good for current customers and public relations!

Oh and by the way, it is not the fault of the drivers here in Denver that operations are a mess, it's due to poor management ability's and bad choices of management personel, each with there own personal agendas!
However management is way to quick to blame all faults on there drivers! This is not the case, look closely and you will see!

“ENGAGED TO WAIT” OR “WAITING TO BE ENGAGED”
In Skidmore v. Swift & Co. (1944), the United States Supreme Court classified an employee as either “engaged to wait” or “waiting to be engaged”. An employee who is required to stay very close to the workplace in time and distance, and has very little freedom to use the time as their own is “engaged to wait” and the time is classified as work time for compensation purposes. If the employee has only minimal restrictions on the use of their time while on call, and has a fair amount of time to respond to the call, they are “waiting to be engaged” and the on call time is not hours worked for compensation purposes.
There is no one universally accepted test for determining whether on call time should be considered as hours worked. The following factors may be considered in making the determination whether on call time is compensable. All of these factors should be considered in conjunction with other relevant information in making the decision.
• THE GEOGRAPHIC OR RESPONSE TIME LIMITATIONS PLACED ON THE EMPLOYEE. A narrow geographic restriction, or strict time limitations, may be indicative of an employee engaged to wait. For example, requiring an employee to remain close to the workplace, or requiring the employee to respond in 5 minutes, are indications that the employee may have been engaged to wait.
• THE FREQUENCY WITH WHICH THE EMPLOYEE MUST RESPOND TO CALLS WHILE ON CALL. If an employee is required to respond to a call every time he or she is on duty, then the on call duty is more disruptive to nonworking time and is more indicative of an employee engaged to wait.
• THE USE OF A PAGER OR CELL PHONE. The widespread availability of cell phones and pagers has made it less likely that on call time will be considered working time, as the employee is not required to wait near a home phone or other specific location. Merely requiring an employee to carry a cell phone or wear a pager does not, in itself, make the time compensable.
1/28/08
Keyword Index
• THE CONSEQUENCES OF FAILING TO RESPOND. Greater flexibility in response to a call increases the likelihood that the on call time is not compensable. For example, if an employee does not have to respond to a call, or only has to respond to a certain percentage of calls, then the time spent on call is less likely to be compensable.
REFERENCES
Colorado Minimum Wage Order Number 25 (Section 2)
29 Code of Federal Regulations 785.14 - 785.17
Skidmore v. Swift & Co., 323 U.S. 134 (1944)
WEBSITE LINKS
Welcome to The Colorado Department of Labor and Employment (Colorado Department of Labor and Employment)
Colorado Division of Labor (Colorado Division of Labor)
1/28/

 

[driver9]

Got this in the email today!

Not quite sure if this is BM's idea or MJ's idea or maybe MJ suggesting this to BM?

Either way starting Friday June 5th the idea is to have drivers show up at scheduled times (I.E 8-9-10-11 Am) And wait at the terminal without punching in at the time clock and waiting until there routes are ready to go then punching in on the time clock.

The previous months activities have shown that this could be anywhere from 30 minuets to several hours! This was brought to the attention of drivers during a June 4 2009, 9 AM Drivers meeting with BM (the TM) as told by BM.

Later in the day a certain driver discussed this issue with BM, whom in turn back peddled and stated that they (the drivers) misunderstood him and that what he meant was that you as a driver were required to show up at your scheduled time, check your trailer to see how far along it is as being loaded, then check in with him (BM) to see if you can punch in.

Either way this is a breech in Federal law, yes the Department of Labor has been contacted about these actions and both were confirmed to be in violation of the Engaged to Wait Law by the Department of Labor!

This is how class action law suites happen! Not good for employee's, not good for current customers and public relations!

Oh and by the way, it is not the fault of the drivers here in Denver that operations are a mess, it's due to poor management ability's and bad choices of management personel, each with there own personal agendas!
However management is way to quick to blame all faults on there drivers! This is not the case, look closely and you will see!

“ENGAGED TO WAIT” OR “WAITING TO BE ENGAGED”
In Skidmore v. Swift & Co. (1944), the United States Supreme Court classified an employee as either “engaged to wait” or “waiting to be engaged”. An employee who is required to stay very close to the workplace in time and distance, and has very little freedom to use the time as their own is “engaged to wait” and the time is classified as work time for compensation purposes. If the employee has only minimal restrictions on the use of their time while on call, and has a fair amount of time to respond to the call, they are “waiting to be engaged” and the on call time is not hours worked for compensation purposes.
There is no one universally accepted test for determining whether on call time should be considered as hours worked. The following factors may be considered in making the determination whether on call time is compensable. All of these factors should be considered in conjunction with other relevant information in making the decision.
• THE GEOGRAPHIC OR RESPONSE TIME LIMITATIONS PLACED ON THE EMPLOYEE. A narrow geographic restriction, or strict time limitations, may be indicative of an employee engaged to wait. For example, requiring an employee to remain close to the workplace, or requiring the employee to respond in 5 minutes, are indications that the employee may have been engaged to wait.
• THE FREQUENCY WITH WHICH THE EMPLOYEE MUST RESPOND TO CALLS WHILE ON CALL. If an employee is required to respond to a call every time he or she is on duty, then the on call duty is more disruptive to nonworking time and is more indicative of an employee engaged to wait.
• THE USE OF A PAGER OR CELL PHONE. The widespread availability of cell phones and pagers has made it less likely that on call time will be considered working time, as the employee is not required to wait near a home phone or other specific location. Merely requiring an employee to carry a cell phone or wear a pager does not, in itself, make the time compensable.
1/28/08
Keyword Index
• THE CONSEQUENCES OF FAILING TO RESPOND. Greater flexibility in response to a call increases the likelihood that the on call time is not compensable. For example, if an employee does not have to respond to a call, or only has to respond to a certain percentage of calls, then the time spent on call is less likely to be compensable.
REFERENCES
Colorado Minimum Wage Order Number 25 (Section 2)
29 Code of Federal Regulations 785.14 - 785.17
Skidmore v. Swift & Co., 323 U.S. 134 (1944)
WEBSITE LINKS
Welcome to The Colorado Department of Labor and Employment (Colorado Department of Labor and Employment)
Colorado Division of Labor (Colorado Division of Labor)
1/28/

YOU ARE CORRECT. IF YOU ARE TOLD TO REPORT TO WORK (FOR EXAMPLE) AT 8 P.M. AND ARE NOT DISPATCHED TILL 9-9:30 YOU ARE DUE THAT PAY. IN A BREAK BULK OPERATION, WHERE DRIVERS CONTINUE TO WAIT ON DISPATCH, LEGALLY YOU SHOULD BE PAID FOR THOSE HOURS. MANAGEMENT HAS ASSIGNED YOU A START TIME AND THAT IS THE TIME YOU SHOULD LOG. :smilie_132:

 

[teamster elvis]

How much more are you people willing to take from this out of control company? This is the backslide of working conditions that I rant about all the time, on this site. It is real people. There is a ball busting campaign occurring right now as we speak. These companies are having their way with us and it needs to be stopped. There are only a handful of companies left that even resemble what this industry used to offer. Guess who is driving everything into the toilet. I apologize if I offend anyone with my answer, but yes, R&L and other companies that are willing to stomp on it's employees anytime it so chooses. Companies that are willing to chance labor law to make larger profit. It is a disgrace. Those of you who know what I am about are aware of my passion for protecting our standard of living, so please don't mistaken this post as an attack on you personally. Stand up for yourselves. We have our form of protection at UPSF, and I am glad we do. I am by no means pushing that here. But for your own sake and the sake of future employees at R&L do something to fight back. Rally together in large numbers, if you choose to fight without help. Many voices are much more affective than one voice behind the TM's closed door. You all know what I am talking about. That open door policy that slams you in the @ss on your way out. I am convinced these companies are blowing this supposedly bad economy way out of proportion. Just an excuse to beat us into submission and pick pocket our wallets. I am a very wise man. One day you will wish you had listened to me. In all seriousness, when a company stoops to these lows, just to get an upper hand on keeping costs down, so that their rates are more competitive then a company who's overhead is much more, because they treat their employees right, then people should speak out and voice their disgust. So that is what I just did. If management at R&L doesn't like the voice of descent, who gives a flying f***. If I upset some drivers with this post, then I apologize. But someone needs to call these things for what they are. T Elvis out.....

 

[Ratrod]

Elvis
You are correct in what you say! Economy or not, more and more employers are stepping across legal limits. Most people just buckle under and accept what there employers say and do wether it is legal or not! I've got news for people, stand up for what is right, if your employer tells or does something shady, call the labor board, OSHA, DOT or a Lawyer and ask them if it's legal, if it's not fight them! You might loose your job but you may gain financial security once the legal battle is over!
If more employee's through out the nation would honestly stand up for there rites these employers would'nt be near as bad as most are now!
R+L got lucky on this subject (this time) they realized they got caught with there hands in the cookie jar and are now doing everything they can to resolve this issue (see the Company Memo issued late friday evening). This little move they tried almost led to a class action law suite.
However I hardly doubt that they will learn anything from this mistake and am willing to bet that in the near future they will try and slide another illegal company policy by there employee's. Seems to be there track record shows this.
Remember a few months ago they issued a new rule stating that any violations in your personal vehicle will result in write ups and possible termination of employement. Well on the legal side they can do this (shadely) but if you hire a lawyer here in CO you can make a fair amount of cash on this nice little R+L Law. Always pays to check with a Lawyer!
I'm here to work and support my family, not to play petty R+L games. But by all means if they try something illegal and I catch them at it, my Lawyer will get a new car and my family a new house!

 

[leftlanecruiser]

We don't need or want your "form of protection" over here. I do disagree with how we have to wait sometimes,but you learn to work around it. By law we are suposed to start our log as soon as we get to the yard-reguardless of how long you have to wait. I know people that have tried to push the issue and log wait time,but it ends up hurting you by the end of the week. If you don't get wrote up for not having enough hours to run your run then you will have to run something shorter and your pay check is short the next week. The guys that do it the most are the ones that start in the afternoon picking up dropped trailers in the city and then wait around to run their run later on that night. I know you can go to the top line for a lunch break,but how much top line time does the DOT really allow us in a 14 work day? It has been going on for years so the recent economy has nothing to do with it. We all question it,but we always come out clean in an audit by the DOT.

 

[just wondering]

baa,baa!!the sound of sheep being led to slaughter.the sound of rl drivers still trying to defend the actions of the company. i know of no other company that so blatantly abuses the drivers time,how ridiculous is to give a driver a starting time, rewuire him to be there, then make him sit for 30 min, hour, or linger. thats why there sre cell phones and pagers. i worked at union companies years ago. you had a 2 hour call time. what rl is doing is ujsing the driver to make up all the time taken when they can not get the load finished. what management is not taking into consideration is the fact that rl ca no longer operate like they used to. too many variables come intop play now. much more traffic, weather(which rl ignores, putting their drivers in real peril at times, longer freight movements, (the load out of KC, did not make ti Stl on time, which means it will be late at wil)oh well ,just hold the driver longer to make up the time, then ***** at him when he gets to his slip point late.its all the damn drivers fault.i have worked here for a number of years, but this isnt the rl i know. so all you company defenders be AWARE THE UNHAPPY DRIVERS ARE FAST OUTNUMBERING THE HAPPY DRIVERS. THERE IS A BREAKING POINT IN EVERY MAN.MR. ROBERTS SR. ,JR.,ROBBY MANY OF ARE ABOUT THERE.you are on the verge of losing a huge number of drivers.maybe that is the plan.hope you can make all your on times with paramount nand outside carrters. what a joke.additionally, why are we being coming yellow??we all thought at one time rl was pretty damn good.not any more, and i feel very sorry this happened.

 

[teamster elvis]

We don't need or want your "form of protection" over here. I do disagree with how we have to wait sometimes,but you learn to work around it. By law we are suposed to start our log as soon as we get to the yard-reguardless of how long you have to wait. I know people that have tried to push the issue and log wait time,but it ends up hurting you by the end of the week. If you don't get wrote up for not having enough hours to run your run then you will have to run something shorter and your pay check is short the next week. The guys that do it the most are the ones that start in the afternoon picking up dropped trailers in the city and then wait around to run their run later on that night. I know you can go to the top line for a lunch break,but how much top line time does the DOT really allow us in a 14 work day? It has been going on for years so the recent economy has nothing to do with it. We all question it,but we always come out clean in an audit by the DOT.

The DOT doesn't allow you to operate a commercial vehicle after being on duty after 14 hours. It doesn't matter how much time you top line your logs, for lunch etc. There is one exception. And that is the (short haul exception or 16 hour rule) which allows you to log up to 16 hours, once in 7 days, or sooner if you have a 34 hour restart. It only applies if you have started duty and ended duty at the same domicile for 5 days straight. Can't be used if you are a lay over driver or sleeper team driver. And you still can't drive after 11 hours using this provision. There is another exception which allows you to operate over your 11 hours. It is only to be used to get to a safe haven due to weather delays, act of god, unforeseen traffic delays etc. So the bottom line is your drivers are thinking about their wallets instead of holding the company accountable for their abuse of time unpaid to their drivers. That is sad. You know what would happen if all drivers from all of these companies who treat their employees in this fashion would all stand up and say enough is enough? We would cause a revolution in this industry. T Elvis out....

 

[just wondering]

let me clarify one thing.i am not advocating a job action,a law suit, or any other mass movement by rl employees.my single message is this.you cannot expect to keep drivers when they are treated like a lot of us have been over the last year.yes, there are employees who have continued in their job, and not been affected much at all. but to a linehaul driver with many years of senority with the company, to have his run given to schneider,and then told-your senority counts- by roby roberts, or one of the over 100 teams let go, run off, or starved out by the company, or the dock supervisors let go for no good reason,or the dock workers at wil told if you dont like it quit because we have thousands of dhl workers ready to take your job. eventually when you affect enough people, someone is going to fight back.rl seems to have the ideal they are beyond any recrimanations for their actions. i wonder if this is true or not.i enjoyed for many years working at rl, and yes all you company boosters i could go elsewhere as many others have,but from long experience know how may of these changes rl has made, then realize how for from the rl way it was taking them, and stopped. i hope they do the same this time before its too late. thats why i hang on .do have 17 years and hate to see it down the tubes.

 

[driver9]

We don't need or want your "form of protection" over here. I do disagree with how we have to wait sometimes,but you learn to work around it. By law we are suposed to start our log as soon as we get to the yard-reguardless of how long you have to wait. I know people that have tried to push the issue and log wait time,but it ends up hurting you by the end of the week. If you don't get wrote up for not having enough hours to run your run then you will have to run something shorter and your pay check is short the next week. The guys that do it the most are the ones that start in the afternoon picking up dropped trailers in the city and then wait around to run their run later on that night. I know you can go to the top line for a lunch break,but how much top line time does the DOT really allow us in a 14 work day? It has been going on for years so the recent economy has nothing to do with it. We all question it,but we always come out clean in an audit by the DOT.

leftlane, are you suggesting the drivers run illegal????
Or are you not aware of DOT regulations???
Or have you never read the FLSA??? :loser:
Or should drivers just give up one or two hours pay waiting on dispatch??
Thats a good idea, I can give up two hours a day, 10 hours a week, and $200 a week that could
buy food, gas, electric, movies, clothes, house, car, and braces for the kids.
Lets all work around it.
A company coming out clean in a DOT audit and drivers not logging leagally are two seperate topics.

 

[DOT approved]

Run you log and show what it is. Don't get yourself fined or bound up over someone else. Don't take me wrong. I go out and work my day the best I can. But I won't lie on a log book.

 

[bullwagon]

Run you log and show what it is. Don't get yourself fined or bound up over someone else. Don't take me wrong. I go out and work my day the best I can. But I won't lie on a log book.

thats right, i log ALL of my wait time, or use to, then they started to figure it out when i was unable to get there "HOT" freight back, i had to stay in motels and ran out of hours on fridays, (which i didn't mind cause i got a 3 day weekend) once that started to happen i was called in with the right times and everything works out for he most part. everyone who does not log wait time is wrong and is making it harder on everyone else, also they did try to tell me to use my 16 hour rule to make up for my wait time, which i told them i cant, that is for acts of god or unexpected weather delays, not for dumb a** drivers or dispatchers that cant do there job right. i have never once used the 16 hour rule, there is only 1 time i will fudge my log and that is when i want to because i am the one taking all of the risk.

 

[imported_rubber duck]

thats right, i log ALL of my wait time, or use to, then they started to figure it out when i was unable to get there "HOT" freight back, i had to stay in motels and ran out of hours on fridays, (which i didn't mind cause i got a 3 day weekend) once that started to happen i was called in with the right times and everything works out for he most part. everyone who does not log wait time is wrong and is making it harder on everyone else, also they did try to tell me to use my 16 hour rule to make up for my wait time, which i told them i cant, that is for acts of god or unexpected weather delays, not for dumb a** drivers or dispatchers that cant do there job right. i have never once used the 16 hour rule, there is only 1 time i will fudge my log and that is when i want to because i am the one taking all of the risk.

16 hour rule can be used once a week providing no log violations in the past thirty days and you must return to the terminal where you started also you still can't drive over 11 hours. On a regular 14 hour log you can still log 2 extra hours for road conditions not exceeding 13 hours total driving and you must be able to make your destination... You can't use the extra two hours to get further down the road to a hotel. Hope this clears things up if i'm off a little somebody step in..

 

[bullwagon]

16 hour rule can be used once a week providing no log violations in the past thirty days and you must return to the terminal where you started also you still can't drive over 11 hours. On a regular 14 hour log you can still log 2 extra hours for road conditions not exceeding 13 hours total driving and you must be able to make your destination... You can't use the extra two hours to get further down the road to a hotel. Hope this clears things up if i'm off a little somebody step in..

you can log the 2 extra hours if you do not anticipate the storm, but if they are calling for a storm then you cannot, if you want to get technical about it,(ya know one of those deals) you can get away with it if you want, i know i said i haven't used the 16 hour rule but i forgot i did this last winter

 

[DOT approved]

I've been pushed in my 16 hour rule by other terminals getting out 3 and 4 hours late for my meet. When it happens no one wants to listen.

 

[badwand]

As drivers of R&L which is engaged in interstate commerce , the company does not have to pay you for standby time. You must log all time but they dont have to pay you. We are exempt from minimum wage and overtime pay. no matter what your state laws says, we still fall under federal guidelines. Now you know what it feels like for us line drivers who give them 10 plus hours a week of free time.

 

[imported_rubber duck]

Now you know what it feels like for us line drivers who give them 10 plus hours a week of free time.

Ten hours is that all Try 15-20hrs like a few guys I know. It's really getting bad with all the guaranteed bs:Flame-On:

 

[shadowr434]

I feel for you line haul guys but I don't do anything for free.When I walk through the door I punch in,period.

 

[fedex_employee]

As drivers of R&L which is engaged in interstate commerce , the company does not have to pay you for standby time. You must log all time but they dont have to pay you. We are exempt from minimum wage and overtime pay. no matter what your state laws says, we still fall under federal guidelines. Now you know what it feels like for us line drivers who give them 10 plus hours a week of free time.

I could not find the part where we are exempt from minimum wage laws, only the overtime provision while engaged in interstate commerce. It was my understanding that we must be paid the minimum wage for all hours worked. In other words if you are required to work 12 hours then the minimun you must get paid for the day is 12 hours times the minimum wage. If there is any information you can share with me I would appreciate it.

 

[imported_Dubba]

Yes you are required to be paid at least minimum wage for all time worked. But this is rarely a problem as the current federal minimum wage is $6.55 hour. Even if you are required to work 70 hours per week, there is no violation unless your gross pay for that week is under $458.50...

 

[Bigmanoncampus]

Got this in the email today!

Not quite sure if this is BM's idea or MJ's idea or maybe MJ suggesting this to BM?

Either way starting Friday June 5th the idea is to have drivers show up at scheduled times (I.E 8-9-10-11 Am) And wait at the terminal without punching in at the time clock and waiting until there routes are ready to go then punching in on the time clock.

The previous months activities have shown that this could be anywhere from 30 minuets to several hours! This was brought to the attention of drivers during a June 4 2009, 9 AM Drivers meeting with BM (the TM) as told by BM.

Later in the day a certain driver discussed this issue with BM, whom in turn back peddled and stated that they (the drivers) misunderstood him and that what he meant was that you as a driver were required to show up at your scheduled time, check your trailer to see how far along it is as being loaded, then check in with him (BM) to see if you can punch in.

Either way this is a breech in Federal law, yes the Department of Labor has been contacted about these actions and both were confirmed to be in violation of the Engaged to Wait Law by the Department of Labor!

This is how class action law suites happen! Not good for employee's, not good for current customers and public relations!

Oh and by the way, it is not the fault of the drivers here in Denver that operations are a mess, it's due to poor management ability's and bad choices of management personel, each with there own personal agendas!
However management is way to quick to blame all faults on there drivers! This is not the case, look closely and you will see!

“ENGAGED TO WAIT” OR “WAITING TO BE ENGAGED”
In Skidmore v. Swift & Co. (1944), the United States Supreme Court classified an employee as either “engaged to wait” or “waiting to be engaged”. An employee who is required to stay very close to the workplace in time and distance, and has very little freedom to use the time as their own is “engaged to wait” and the time is classified as work time for compensation purposes. If the employee has only minimal restrictions on the use of their time while on call, and has a fair amount of time to respond to the call, they are “waiting to be engaged” and the on call time is not hours worked for compensation purposes.
There is no one universally accepted test for determining whether on call time should be considered as hours worked. The following factors may be considered in making the determination whether on call time is compensable. All of these factors should be considered in conjunction with other relevant information in making the decision.
• THE GEOGRAPHIC OR RESPONSE TIME LIMITATIONS PLACED ON THE EMPLOYEE. A narrow geographic restriction, or strict time limitations, may be indicative of an employee engaged to wait. For example, requiring an employee to remain close to the workplace, or requiring the employee to respond in 5 minutes, are indications that the employee may have been engaged to wait.
• THE FREQUENCY WITH WHICH THE EMPLOYEE MUST RESPOND TO CALLS WHILE ON CALL. If an employee is required to respond to a call every time he or she is on duty, then the on call duty is more disruptive to nonworking time and is more indicative of an employee engaged to wait.
• THE USE OF A PAGER OR CELL PHONE. The widespread availability of cell phones and pagers has made it less likely that on call time will be considered working time, as the employee is not required to wait near a home phone or other specific location. Merely requiring an employee to carry a cell phone or wear a pager does not, in itself, make the time compensable.
1/28/08
Keyword Index
• THE CONSEQUENCES OF FAILING TO RESPOND. Greater flexibility in response to a call increases the likelihood that the on call time is not compensable. For example, if an employee does not have to respond to a call, or only has to respond to a certain percentage of calls, then the time spent on call is less likely to be compensable.
REFERENCES
Colorado Minimum Wage Order Number 25 (Section 2)
29 Code of Federal Regulations 785.14 - 785.17
Skidmore v. Swift & Co., 323 U.S. 134 (1944)
WEBSITE LINKS
Welcome to The Colorado Department of Labor and Employment (Colorado Department of Labor and Employment)
Colorado Division of Labor (Colorado Division of Labor)
1/28/

I heard they announced this TM is no longer with the company today, so obviously the ROD knows the company won't allow them to operate this way. Hope its getting bettere there for you guys.