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Yellow | Standing Up For Our Pensions!

All union pensions hit the wall because of the worst Wall St financial breakdown ever. Public unions are getting whacked because of it. If Wall St banks were not bailed out we'd be in worse shape than Greece. But still the teamster funds were able to keep the promise of a guaranteed amount every month to retirees. 401's guarantee nothing. Even Warren Buffet loses billions now and then. If you believe you have skills in picking stock winners by buying high and selling low like most do then go for it but keep your day job at ABF because some day you're going to need a real defined teamster pension check every month and not lose 50%-60% a year before you retire due to market risk.

assuming we pull out of this Obama is the problem not the cure
slow recovery​
 
Joe the plumber said:
All union pensions hit the wall because of the worst Wall St financial breakdown ever. Public unions are getting whacked because of it. If Wall St banks were not bailed out we'd be in worse shape than Greece. But still the teamster funds were able to keep the promise of a guaranteed amount every month to retirees. 401's guarantee nothing. Even Warren Buffet loses billions now and then. If you believe you have skills in picking stock winners by buying high and selling low like most do then go for it but keep your day job at ABF because some day you're going to need a real defined teamster pension check every month and not lose 50%-60% a year before you retire due to market risk.


assuming we pull out of this Obama is the problem not the cure
slow recovery​
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With all due respect, your assertion of a 50%-60% loss every year in the stock market is ludicrous. If the market falls by that much your pensions will be trashed as well. Where do you thing the pension funds invest? Just because you're promised something doesn't mean you'll eventually get it.

Your 401-K doesn't have to invest in individual stocks either as I'm sure you know. Mutual funds, particularly index funds, are quite safe and mirror the overall market performance.
 
Triplex said:
With all due respect, your assertion of a 50%-60% loss every year in the stock market is ludicrous. If the market falls by that much your pensions will be trashed as well. Where do you thing the pension funds invest? Just because you're promised something doesn't mean you'll eventually get it.

Your 401-K doesn't have to invest in individual stocks either as I'm sure you know. Mutual funds, particularly index funds, are quite safe and mirror the overall market performance.
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Ya, we would have worst problems than trashed pensions.
If 50 to 60% lost their value every month, we would be living in third world nation.
 
Triplex said:
With all due respect, your assertion of a 50%-60% loss every year in the stock market is ludicrous. If the market falls by that much your pensions will be trashed as well. Where do you thing the pension funds invest? Just because you're promised something doesn't mean you'll eventually get it.

Your 401-K doesn't have to invest in individual stocks either as I'm sure you know. Mutual funds, particularly index funds, are quite safe and mirror the overall market performance.
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You misunderstood, I meant the year before you retire. I've a friend of a friend who built new homes all his life tell me he lost a million dollars in the crash. He sold before he lost the other million. Today you need 10 million to be a millionaire


lose 50%-60% a year before you retire due to market risk.
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Joe the plumber said:
You misunderstood, I meant the year before you retire. I've a friend of a friend who built new homes all his life tell me he lost a million dollars in the crash. He sold before he lost the other million. Today you need 10 million to be a millionaire
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Ya, that could happen. You know what? I might not happen.
 
Joe the plumber said:
You misunderstood, I meant the year before you retire. I've a friend of a friend who built new homes all his life tell me he lost a million dollars in the crash. He sold before he lost the other million. Today you need 10 million to be a millionaire
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My mistake. However, even if the market dropped 50% the year before you retired you would still be invested in the 401-K and you would withdraw a small portion your first year of retirement. In subsequent years there would be a good chance the market would recover (as it has over time) and you would not have permanently lost your total investment as long as you didn't panic and bail out at the low. It's been proven that over time that investment in the market long term has had quite good returns overall. Of course, timing is everything.
 
Triplex said:
My mistake. However, even if the market dropped 50% the year before you retired you would still be invested in the 401-K and you would withdraw a small portion your first year of retirement. In subsequent years there would be a good chance the market would recover (as it has over time) and you would not have permanently lost your total investment as long as you didn't panic and bail out at the low. It's been proven that over time that investment in the market long term has had quite good returns overall. Of course, timing is everything.
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You don't have that kind of time. The funds were given 10 yrs to recoup loses for funding requirements. I have honeymoon friends who lost half of a $200,000 401. Left them with only $100,000. They have to pay tax on that. If they spend $10,000 a year for 7-8 years they go broke
 
Joe the plumber said:
You don't have that kind of time. The funds were given 10 yrs to recoup loses for funding requirements. I have honeymoon friends who lost half of a $200,000 401. Left them with only $100,000. They have to pay tax on that. If they spend $10,000 a year for 7-8 years they go broke
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I'm talking specifically about individual 401-K's here. I don't know how your friends allocated their 401-K investments, but my own have recovered nicely from the lows they reached not long ago. In addition, even when you start to withdraw from your 401-K, the remaining balance continues to grow with time and a recovering market. Your calculations are not taking that into account. You have to use a financial calculator and compute the remaining balances for each subsequent year using annuity formulas with a particular withdrawal value and interest rate.
 
Triplex said:
I'm talking specifically about individual 401-K's here. I don't know how your friends allocated their 401-K investments, but my own have recovered nicely from the lows they reached not long ago. In addition, even when you start to withdraw from your 401-K, the remaining balance continues to grow with time and a recovering market. Your calculations are not taking that into account. You have to use a financial calculator and compute the remaining balances for each subsequent year using annuity formulas with a particular withdrawal value and interest rate.
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If you got 30 years to go before you retire and can afford an index fund, ya buy in. I can't even guess what's going to happen with the pension but the way it looks now future retirees may not be able to afford to retire at the old age of 62 assuming YRC pulls out of the nose-dive. But who knows that could change. You'll need 30 years of pension and 30 years in a good fund just to pay your dental, eye glasses, health care etc. and maintain the lifestyle you have now when you retire
 
Wasn't it ENRON that wrecked the pension fund? I would actually lean towards the idea of a 401k, distribute our pension payments into a 401k and let us decide how to invest the money.
 
The Enron scandel basically it was forcing employees to invest the retirement program that Enron set-up to purchase Enron stock. Enron cooked the books to give inflated value of the company thus giving inflated value to the retirement funds. When the house of cards came crashing down, employee's lost everything. If the employee's had been allowed to invest in other stocks and funds, the hurt would not been near as bad. Follow the age old saying,'don't ever invest in the company you work for'.
 
RexRyan said:
Wasn't it ENRON that wrecked the pension fund? I would actually lean towards the idea of a 401k, distribute our pension payments into a 401k and let us decide how to invest the money.
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Company pensions are no good but you'd have better luck trying to pick a winner from your nose and the let experts do their thing in the stock market
 
I'd be better off if the banks still paid 10% interest on savings accounts. If free trade was free why would there need to be a thousand page document?
 
Free Dumb said:
I'd be better off if the banks still paid 10% interest on savings accounts. If free trade was free why would there need to be a thousand page document?
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Because that's not free trade. That's managed trade.
And there doesn't need to be a 1000 page document.
 
Free Dumb said:
I'd be better off if the banks still paid 10% interest on savings accounts. If free trade was free why would there need to be a thousand page document?
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Be careful what you wish for. If banks were paying 10% on savings you can bet your butt that you'd be paying lots higher mortgage, home equity, credit card, and auto loan interest rates. There's no free ride.
 
You shouldn't invest in individual stocks, pick a diverse growth portfolio while you are building your 401 and move to a conversative income one when you are getting close to retirement.
 
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