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FedEx Freight | The Union Debate Thread

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SwampRatt said:
They "won" the right to bargain collectively. They WILL get that opportunity, almost certainly. It is NOT their fault that they don't have the leverage (today) that they hoped for. The case could be made that it might be your side's fault, that some became discouraged, got cold feet. The fact remains, those that took a stand, and made the effort deserve respect for THAT effort. You, Red, also deserve respect for your heartfelt opposition. Your center did vote yes, despite your effort. If I were you, I'd let things play themselves out, rather than sabotage the effort that may benefit all of your co-workers.

There will be an appropriate time for your campaign to decertify.

As far as that leverage, that you were "promised" (tsunami, as you say), I'm still not certain why things turned out like they did, at that time. There is no real failure in this. There are RESULTS. We can all learn, and use that going forward.

AGAIN, the final chapter has not yet been written.
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So essentially, they haven't "won" anything since we had the right to bargain individually or collectively with the company ourselves without a third party. Everything that has been changed so far could've also been achieved had we stood together as employees and told the company that enough was enough...IMHO. I feel all employees agreed that the company had made some mistakes and that changes needed to be made, we differed on the path to which some chose to take in order to achieve those changes. As for our side, we put out the facts while helping to educate the masses so they could make an informed decision instead of relying on the words from the company or the IBT.
I've always said I respect those for standing up for what they believe, on both sides, some never wavered and they deserve that respect....others not so much. To bad the other side doesn't see it this way.
Yes, my center lost because we weren't able to educate all of the drivers in time, again, we achieved in two weeks what the pro side worked on for six months, we lost by 11 votes...or just six by my math.
No offense but I'm glad you're not me, as for letting things play out, see CityDog's post #3860...they may have won the battle but they haven't won the war.

The appropriate time for our campaign to decertify is NOW, we will work towards that goal everyday until that goal is achieved, regardless of how long it takes.

I'll agree, the final chapter hasn't been written...yet...but the writing is on the wall, some just choose not to read it.
 
Hoot Owl said:
The yes crowd won the election in Charlotte Red, what we will win is yet to be determined, what we have already won as a movement is common knowledge. Again, what have you won as a no voter? We are fighting for the chance at better insurance and retirement, what exactly does the no crowd stand for? At any point since FedEx acquired any of the 3 companies comprising FXF have they made the insurance more affordable with better coverage? NO, it's been a steady slide downward and the trend has actually picked up momentum in the last 5 years... Anybody remember $200 deductibles only a handful of years ago? Is this slide what you actually want to fight FOR? You still think people should grovel and be thankful for what the company decides to give its employees and not question the powers to be? Ex sure thinks so, but keep in mind he and Deere aren't on this insurance...Deere pays union dues and has union insurance he just has an axe to grind with the IBT which has consumed him. So exactly what do you hope to attain by the elimination of the union campaign and what LEVERAGE will you have as an individual? NONE. So if this campaign does fade into memory and people once again bear the full brunt of a corporation hell bent on profit at the expense of its own employees will you be proud of your part in making that possible? Will you be proud you stood against those just trying to aspire for better? Will you and others still be "fedex strong" when people and their families suffer due to the continuing erosion of our benefits? Time will tell. I stand by my choice.
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As for what you've "won", see my response to Swamp.
What have we in CLT won as NO voters, nothing yet because we lost...patience grasshopper.
What do we stand for? We believe that all can be achieved without the use of a third party, we believe in keeping the lines of communication open with the company, and we believe we're strong enough to stand and speak for ourselves, we don't need to pay someone to speak for us.
As for our healthcare benefits declining, maybe you haven't noticed but so has everyone else's, the rising cost of healthcare has put a strain on everybody (healthcare spending accounts for 1/6 of our economy or $2.7 Trillion) and no, unions aren't immune, they've just been excempt until 2018. Even Hoffa Jr has been begging Congress not to lift their excemption because even he knows what the loss of that exemption will do to Teamcare.
What I believe is everyone needs to be fiscally responsible for themselves, it's NOT the company, the Govt, or anyone else's responsibility to take care of us from womb to tomb, it's OUR responsibility to take care of ourselves. If everyone lived within their means instead of paycheck to paycheck, the rising cost of healthcare wouldn't be an issue...and this fiscal responsibility not only covers healthcare but our retirement as well.
As for the rest of your diatribe, ask your fellow co-worker who was going to retire today what he found when he checked into healthcare on the open markets...$800 a month premiums for less coverage than what he currently has with FedEx Freight...and this doesn't include short term/long term disability that the company provides to us for free!
As for your last three questions....yes, yes, and yes...and I will stand by my choice.
 
Redracer3136 said:
So essentially, they haven't "won" anything since we had the right to bargain individually or collectively with the company ourselves without a third party. Everything that has been changed so far could've also been achieved had we stood together as employees and told the company that enough was enough...IMHO. I feel all employees agreed that the company had made some mistakes and that changes needed to be made, we differed on the path to which some chose to take in order to achieve those changes. As for our side, we put out the facts while helping to educate the masses so they could make an informed decision instead of relying on the words from the company or the IBT.
I've always said I respect those for standing up for what they believe, on both sides, some never wavered and they deserve that respect....others not so much. To bad the other side doesn't see it this way.
Yes, my center lost because we weren't able to educate all of the drivers in time, again, we achieved in two weeks what the pro side worked on for six months, we lost by 11 votes...or just six by my math.
No offense but I'm glad you're not me, as for letting things play out, see CityDog's post #3860...they may have won the battle but they haven't won the war.

The appropriate time for our campaign to decertify is NOW, we will work towards that goal everyday until that goal is achieved, regardless of how long it takes.

I'll agree, the final chapter hasn't been written...yet...but the writing is on the wall, some just choose not to read it.
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Just a couple things:

Your "right" to bargain individually (or even collectively), had no enforcement method, nor any certainty of being heard, prior to this. Only now does it have that certainty. Complaints were voiced at numerous locations, through various channels, all with disappointing results. Don't forget that this was not some wild hair, spur of the moment, reactive impulse.

I know you feel the need to campaign endlessly. That is your right. But you are certainly not giving the effort a chance. In a sense, you are no different than a hand full of guys at my center. There are a few who would prefer NOT to have a proper GPD adjustment or any corrections, anywhere across the board, because the lack of correction provides near certainty of support for the petition and (most importantly) subsequent vote. You are the same, Red, but from the opposite side of the debate. YOU, it seems, would prefer NO GAINS to be achieved through representation, because it is better for your side (position) to argue that there is no benefit.

Have you noticed there are only about 3 guys pushing your decert effort at this point? I don't see many (any) pests from EPH, SBR, or STK, trying to sabotage the effort at their centers. Most, it seems, understand the value of a united front, despite their original position. That applies to the other side of the coin, as well. Most yes voters who lost, seem to be waiting for the appropriate time (1 year).

Just observations, Red.
 
SwampRatt said:
Just a couple things:

Your "right" to bargain individually (or even collectively), had no enforcement method, nor any certainty of being heard, prior to this. Only now does it have that certainty. Complaints were voiced at numerous locations, through various channels, all with disappointing results. Don't forget that this was not some wild hair, spur of the moment, reactive impulse.

I know you feel the need to campaign endlessly. That is your right. But you are certainly not giving the effort a chance. In a sense, you are no different than a hand full of guys at my center. There are a few who would prefer NOT to have a proper GPD adjustment or any corrections, anywhere across the board, because the lack of correction provides near certainty of support for the petition and (most importantly) subsequent vote. You are the same, Red, but from the opposite side of the debate. YOU, it seems, would prefer NO GAINS to be achieved through representation, because it is better for your side (position) to argue that there is no benefit.

Have you noticed there are only about 3 guys pushing your decert effort at this point? I don't see many (any) pests from EPH, SBR, or STK, trying to sabotage the effort at their centers. Most, it seems, understand the value of a united front, despite their original position. That applies to the other side of the coin, as well. Most yes voters who lost, seem to be waiting for the appropriate time (1 year).

Just observations, Red.
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There may be plenty at those centers trying to decertify, just because they're not in trucking boards doesn't mean they don't exist. I know of another driver from reds terminal who wants to decertify and as far as I know he doesn't even have an account here. Does he count?
 
johndeere4020 said:
There may be plenty at those centers trying to decertify, just because they're not in trucking boards doesn't mean they don't exist. I know of another driver from reds terminal who wants to decertify and as far as I know he doesn't even have an account here. Does he count?
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1 whole driver that makes 2 lmao good stuff.
 
johndeere4020 said:
There may be plenty at those centers trying to decertify, just because they're not in trucking boards doesn't mean they don't exist. I know of another driver from reds terminal who wants to decertify and as far as I know he doesn't even have an account here. Does he count?
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The same can be said for the other side of the coin DEAR!!!
 
johndeere4020 said:
That was an example, I know for a fact half the drivers at that terminal voted no. So I wouldn't be s stretch to assume their are many in favor of decertification. My point is the overwhelming majority of FedEx drivers don't participate in this forum.
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DEAR, you have to have brown eyes!!!!
 
My wife has a Pilot with 260K on the clock....she loves it and refuses to get rid of it until it dies. I did the timing belt and water pump at 100K, had it done at 200K. Investing neither the time nor the money to do it again at 300K. We will see how long it lasts. Absolutely no repairs made to date. Everything has been preventive maintenance and wear items like pads, belts, tires.

It was made in Lincoln, Alabama at a NON-Union facility! :)
 
SwampRatt said:
Just a couple things:

Your "right" to bargain individually (or even collectively), had no enforcement method, nor any certainty of being heard, prior to this. Only now does it have that certainty. Complaints were voiced at numerous locations, through various channels, all with disappointing results. Don't forget that this was not some wild hair, spur of the moment, reactive impulse.

I know you feel the need to campaign endlessly. That is your right. But you are certainly not giving the effort a chance. In a sense, you are no different than a hand full of guys at my center. There are a few who would prefer NOT to have a proper GPD adjustment or any corrections, anywhere across the board, because the lack of correction provides near certainty of support for the petition and (most importantly) subsequent vote. You are the same, Red, but from the opposite side of the debate. YOU, it seems, would prefer NO GAINS to be achieved through representation, because it is better for your side (position) to argue that there is no benefit.

Have you noticed there are only about 3 guys pushing your decert effort at this point? I don't see many (any) pests from EPH, SBR, or STK, trying to sabotage the effort at their centers. Most, it seems, understand the value of a united front, despite their original position. That applies to the other side of the coin, as well. Most yes voters who lost, seem to be waiting for the appropriate time (1 year).

Just observations, Red.
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This depends on what we're bargaining for...for example, when Michelin first came out with their "energy" tires, they were junk! Guys who'd never had an accident in 20 years were suddenly having them, traction was dismal at best in the rain, and if your lead box was empty in the rain, you'd better not do over 45mph or you'd run the risk of having an accident. We as drivers collectively, first complained to our local centers, then to HR & the RVP's, and eventually to the top of the hill and finally something was done...they started removing the tires and replacing them with different ones. Eventually Michelin came out with a second generation "energy" tire that would actually grip the road. My point is although the climb was exhausting at times, collectively we stood together and got results...without the need of a third party!

You are correct, it IS my right to campaign endlessly and I, along with many others, will continue to do so...not so we can say there is no benefit, but because we disagree with the IBT and what they stand for. When weighing the pros and cons of representation with the IBT, the cons outnumber the pros in my book, therefor as long as I'm employed by this company, I'll continue to fight this movement. Am I willing to give the process a chance...no, because I don't believe/agree with what the IBT represents. As for "no gains" received, we've already received gains due to the movement, that's why I'll always contend that the threat of the union is more power than the union itself.

Not sure where you get your info but I'd suggest you find a better source, 3 guys wouldn't have been able to do what's been done so far. So now we're "pest"??? I thought you were above the name calling...either the pro's are beginning to rub off on you or maybe you're now starting to see the writing on the wall yourself...either way, what we're doing must be working. As for EPH, SBR, or STK, you fail to realize those are closed shop states, they have no choice but to sit back and enjoy the ride while waiting on the clock to tick down...this may also explain why their attendance numbers are higher at their monthly meetings, they're invested whether they like it or not, therefor most of the no voters attend in order to get the info needed for decert, not because they want to give the process a chance...it's not rocket science. In CLT we're RTW, therefor we have a choice, and again, most of the yes voters "at that time" voted yes with no intention of joining, they were what the IBT likes to call "freeloaders", which explains why there's only about 40 drivers who've agreed to pay dues should a contract be ratified out of 225...and now many of those "freeloaders" have questioned their decisions and we're happy to have them on our side, thanks to our hard work. As for the centers who pulled or voted no, they have the same type people as me working there as well to ensure it stays that way....and no, regardless of the rumors, places like NHS and RCH are not getting ready to re-file, that's just more rumors in order to keep up the hopes of the yes supporters.
 
Redracer3136 said:
This depends on what we're bargaining for...for example, when Michelin first came out with their "energy" tires, they were junk! Guys who'd never had an accident in 20 years were suddenly having them, traction was dismal at best in the rain, and if your lead box was empty in the rain, you'd better not do over 45mph or you'd run the risk of having an accident. We as drivers collectively, first complained to our local centers, then to HR & the RVP's, and eventually to the top of the hill and finally something was done...they started removing the tires and replacing them with different ones. Eventually Michelin came out with a second generation "energy" tire that would actually grip the road. My point is although the climb was exhausting at times, collectively we stood together and got results...without the need of a third party!

You are correct, it IS my right to campaign endlessly and I, along with many others, will continue to do so...not so we can say there is no benefit, but because we disagree with the IBT and what they stand for. When weighing the pros and cons of representation with the IBT, the cons outnumber the pros in my book, therefor as long as I'm employed by this company, I'll continue to fight this movement. Am I willing to give the process a chance...no, because I don't believe/agree with what the IBT represents. As for "no gains" received, we've already received gains due to the movement, that's why I'll always contend that the threat of the union is more power than the union itself.

Not sure where you get your info but I'd suggest you find a better source, 3 guys wouldn't have been able to do what's been done so far. So now we're "pest"??? I thought you were above the name calling...either the pro's are beginning to rub off on you or maybe you're now starting to see the writing on the wall yourself...either way, what we're doing must be working. As for EPH, SBR, or STK, you fail to realize those are closed shop states, they have no choice but to sit back and enjoy the ride while waiting on the clock to tick down...this may also explain why their attendance numbers are higher at their monthly meetings, they're invested whether they like it or not, therefor most of the no voters attend in order to get the info needed for decert, not because they want to give the process a chance...it's not rocket science. In CLT we're RTW, therefor we have a choice, and again, most of the yes voters "at that time" voted yes with no intention of joining, they were what the IBT likes to call "freeloaders", which explains why there's only about 40 drivers who've agreed to pay dues should a contract be ratified out of 225...and now many of those "freeloaders" have questioned their decisions and we're happy to have them on our side, thanks to our hard work. As for the centers who pulled or voted no, they have the same type people as me working there as well to ensure it stays that way....and no, regardless of the rumors, places like NHS and RCH are not getting ready to re-file, that's just more rumors in order to keep up the hopes of the yes supporters.
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You just know what go's on at every center and what every driver thinks. Do you ever get tired of posting bs numbers and trying to speak for everyone? I bet your the brunt of alot of jokes in CLT.
 
EX396 said:
My wife has a Pilot with 260K on the clock....she loves it and refuses to get rid of it until it dies. I did the timing belt and water pump at 100K, had it done at 200K. Investing neither the time nor the money to do it again at 300K. We will see how long it lasts. Absolutely no repairs made to date. Everything has been preventive maintenance and wear items like pads, belts, tires.

It was made in Lincoln, Alabama at a NON-Union facility! :)
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There you go!! What has what kind of car your planning on buying have to do with the Fed Ex Union debate, personally I think you should buy a Yugo!!! Fits your personality to a T!
 
Crazy Trucker said:
You just know what go's on at every center and what every driver thinks. Do you ever get tired of posting bs numbers and trying to speak for everyone? I bet your the brunt of alot of jokes in CLT.
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Just because you're not part of the well oiled anti-union machine that has swept the country represented by almost every center doesn't mean it doesn't exist, it just means you're not in the know.
As for my numbers, they come from a few of the insiders on the pro-union side...perhaps you can return the favor and drive down to attend one of their meetings to see for yourself instead of relying on the propaganda that's spewed your way.
 
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Redracer3136 said:
Just because you're not part of the well oiled anti-union machine that has swept the country represented by almost every center doesn't mean it doesn't exist, it just means you're not in the know.
As for my numbers, they come from a few of the insiders on the pro-union side...perhaps you can return the favor and drive down to attend one of their meetings to see for yourself instead of relying on the propaganda that's spewed your way.
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Your full of bs lies. Better go in early so the puppet master can pull your strings like he does every morning. No need to drive down for a meeting the ibt alrady won your terminal they have plenty of support.
 
Redracer3136 said:
This depends on what we're bargaining for...for example, when Michelin first came out with their "energy" tires, they were junk! Guys who'd never had an accident in 20 years were suddenly having them, traction was dismal at best in the rain, and if your lead box was empty in the rain, you'd better not do over 45mph or you'd run the risk of having an accident. We as drivers collectively, first complained to our local centers, then to HR & the RVP's, and eventually to the top of the hill and finally something was done...they started removing the tires and replacing them with different ones. Eventually Michelin came out with a second generation "energy" tire that would actually grip the road. My point is although the climb was exhausting at times, collectively we stood together and got results...without the need of a third party!

You are correct, it IS my right to campaign endlessly and I, along with many others, will continue to do so...not so we can say there is no benefit, but because we disagree with the IBT and what they stand for. When weighing the pros and cons of representation with the IBT, the cons outnumber the pros in my book, therefor as long as I'm employed by this company, I'll continue to fight this movement. Am I willing to give the process a chance...no, because I don't believe/agree with what the IBT represents. As for "no gains" received, we've already received gains due to the movement, that's why I'll always contend that the threat of the union is more power than the union itself.

Not sure where you get your info but I'd suggest you find a better source, 3 guys wouldn't have been able to do what's been done so far. So now we're "pest"??? I thought you were above the name calling...either the pro's are beginning to rub off on you or maybe you're now starting to see the writing on the wall yourself...either way, what we're doing must be working. As for EPH, SBR, or STK, you fail to realize those are closed shop states, they have no choice but to sit back and enjoy the ride while waiting on the clock to tick down...this may also explain why their attendance numbers are higher at their monthly meetings, they're invested whether they like it or not, therefor most of the no voters attend in order to get the info needed for decert, not because they want to give the process a chance...it's not rocket science. In CLT we're RTW, therefor we have a choice, and again, most of the yes voters "at that time" voted yes with no intention of joining, they were what the IBT likes to call "freeloaders", which explains why there's only about 40 drivers who've agreed to pay dues should a contract be ratified out of 225...and now many of those "freeloaders" have questioned their decisions and we're happy to have them on our side, thanks to our hard work. As for the centers who pulled or voted no, they have the same type people as me working there as well to ensure it stays that way....and no, regardless of the rumors, places like NHS and RCH are not getting ready to re-file, that's just more rumors in order to keep up the hopes of the yes supporters.
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1) Yeah, some things can be accomplished, without full organization. The squeaky wheel comes to mind. I recall the correction of the 1 min. idle, many years ago. We got them to move it from 1 min to 3 min before shut down. I was unaware of the "muscle" that was used to force Michelin to reformulate their tires. That is great, Red. If only we could focus that kind of effort on compensation, and unsurpassed Customer service, who knows what could be accomplished.

2) Continue your decert (CLT) campaign, if you must. I just question the wisdom of starting that campaign the day after you lost the election. You know NOTHING can happen until after representation has been given a full year. YOU yourself loudly (and proudly) proclaim that there will be a (YEARS) long court battle, before that year ever begins. MOST (NOT just T.B. members) on the loosing side are able to accept that loss and go on, rather than hamper the process, thereby giving the process a chance to work. Both sides have a window that will open up to readdress the issue. There are times to do what needs done, and times to stand by. Most, it seems, are able to tell the difference.

3) Clearly the "3 guys" reference was pertaining to this message board, not the entire system. With few exceptions, those whose center is no longer "in play" have been pretty silent. The result of their individual vote (or pull), seems to be honored. The main exceptions to that have been those debating and/or correcting you and your support group. Again, MOST hope success comes from the process, regardless of the voting results. Your closed shop vs RTW seems to be your default excuse for everything to do with CLT. The fact everyone has not signed up to pay dues at this point, is not indicative of support or lack there of.

So now we're "pest"??? I thought you were above the name calling...either the pro's are beginning to rub off on you or maybe you're now starting to see the writing on the wall yourself...either way, what we're doing must be working.
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Come on, Red. Certainly you realize that I meant the term "Pest" in the most affectionate way possible. Is that really "name calling"? Either you are becoming entirely too sensitive, or I am becoming too insensitive to the feelings of others. Which is it?:idunno:
 
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