Thrown Under The Bus Again

[dokman]

The point remains. The typical rank and file Teamster refuses to look past next weeks paycheck. YRC should, for the benefit of all their employees, present a take it or leave it offer in order to remain viable, allow them to pay down debt, return to profitability, provide job security for all employees from CEO on down, expand their customer base and create the ability to hire and retain employees in every classification. Will the YRC employees vote to stay employed or vote to shut it down?
Post # 25 was a series of questions starting with "do you think". Read it again. NEVER did I say $100.00 a week would fund pensions. So I will ask those questions again.
Given a finite amount of money,
What would you cut to restore full pensions?
Will the rank and file accept cuts to healthcare to restore pensions?
Will the members agree to healthcare co-pays and deductibles?
Will the members ratify a contract with a $100.00 a week deduction for insurance premiums?
The answer to those questions are nothing and no.
I will add a question. What are the members willing to accept to secure their future?
Your non union competition doesn't require one size fits all healthcare. Employees have choices. Different co-pays, deductibles and premiums based on their family needs. They offer tax free HSA plans to their employees. Your competition offers matching 401K plans so the employee never has to worry about a third party fund going broke or changing the rules for their retirement.
The real difference is that your competition trusts the employee to make decisions and take personal responsibility for their future. Teamsters reject that common sense approach.

What a moron remark. “Give the employees a take it or leave it offer” Hey stupid did the employees tell the company to compete against other companies under same ownership umbrella?
Did the employees tell Yellow to try and start up next day service, after they bought Holland who at the time was king of next day.?
Did anyone make them take on so much debt other than themselves ?
Did Holland tell them “ hey we have cash charge us a 1,000,000 a week for operation expenses” which Jeff Rogers told them stick it or close Holland?
You honestly think YRC employees are to fault?
Most guys there could write a book on the amount of waste they see.
You are as dumb as a fence post if you think the employees are to fault for the problems.

That’s right you can’t fix stupid.

 

[ABF381]

You don't need to be YRC to answer any of those general questions.
AND
Look again, I simply responded to your post.
You are correct, they don't want help or my opinion. They prefer to be unemployed in the near future. I went down with the ship at Preston Trucking. I ran a trip on the very last day and was running linehaul for Yellow the next day. Now the only union option is ABF.

Yeah you are right you don't need to be YRC to answer, but that doesn't mean I should....it is their employment and their choices.... none of my business what they do, it hasn't been since the last time I punched a clock for them in 2011....that is very arrogant to say they don't want your help, they prefer to be unemployed.....your ideas aren't going to save them, all it is going to do is accelerate the race to the bottom and put a drag on everyone's pay. How did those concessions work out for you at Preston?..and you endorse concessions like it will save them....i have a question....how deep would a cut be? would they be at maybe 17 or 18? How do you hire at that wage? also there is T Force, ABF, and UPS Parcel....

 

[dokman]

The point remains. The typical rank and file Teamster refuses to look past next weeks paycheck. YRC should, for the benefit of all their employees, present a take it or leave it offer in order to remain viable, allow them to pay down debt, return to profitability, provide job security for all employees from CEO on down, expand their customer base and create the ability to hire and retain employees in every classification. Will the YRC employees vote to stay employed or vote to shut it down?
Post # 25 was a series of questions starting with "do you think". Read it again. NEVER did I say $100.00 a week would fund pensions. So I will ask those questions again.
Given a finite amount of money,
What would you cut to restore full pensions?
Will the rank and file accept cuts to healthcare to restore pensions?
Will the members agree to healthcare co-pays and deductibles?
Will the members ratify a contract with a $100.00 a week deduction for insurance premiums?
The answer to those questions are nothing and no.
I will add a question. What are the members willing to accept to secure their future?
Your non union competition doesn't require one size fits all healthcare. Employees have choices. Different co-pays, deductibles and premiums based on their family needs. They offer tax free HSA plans to their employees. Your competition offers matching 401K plans so the employee never has to worry about a third party fund going broke or changing the rules for their retirement.
The real difference is that your competition trusts the employee to make decisions and take personal responsibility for their future. Teamsters reject that common sense approach.

Here is another question for your vast knowledge and intelligence.
Before I ask I will say yes YRC employees had a choice to leave, some did, some too close to retirement, some did not want to start over and sacrifice the home life they got through seniority.

Here you go.
How do you ask an employee that is making less on the hour and mile than they were in 2009 to pay more or give more? That’s right I didn’t miss type I said LESS THAN THEY WERE IN 2009.

You really pissed in the wind with that stupid post on “ take it or leave it”

Put a spin on that one and you will show your full stupidity and arrogance.

 

[rtm457]

I am not taking sides. But, the Yellow rank & file have had @ least 2 times to say no to the offered contract with concessions. Why have they not defied their leadership? I will tell you why. In Indy Local 135 it is a rare occasion to find more than 20% (if that) @ the once a month Union Freight meeting for Yellow. ABF is the same way. Brian once told me the attendance @ these meetings tells the Local Officers the rank & file are happy with the current status of their pay & benefits. If the members packed the Hall & out in to the streets, then things would change. The elected Officers like their jobs in the Union. They would pay attention to hundreds of loud men & women demanding change. Would they pay attention to 20% of the employees being quiet, respectful, & not demanding much 1 Sunday morning out of the month? Not so much. We reap what we sow. von.

We did vote down the last givebacks. As for the first one we were led to believe it was temporary. The second one was voted down. Then the company and union conspired to hold an in person vote at each local hall on a Sunday with very little or no prior notification. Then some of the agreed to parts of the MOU was reneged on by the company.

 

[Razorblade]

What a moron remark. “Give the employees a take it or leave it offer” Hey stupid did the employees tell the company to compete against other companies under same ownership umbrella?
Did the employees tell Yellow to try and start up next day service, after they bought Holland who at the time was king of next day.?
Did anyone make them take on so much debt other than themselves ?
Did Holland tell them “ hey we have cash charge us a 1,000,000 a week for operation expenses” which Jeff Rogers told them stick it or close Holland?
You honestly think YRC employees are to fault?
Most guys there could write a book on the amount of waste they see.
You are as dumb as a fence post if you think the employees are to fault for the problems.

That’s right you can’t fix stupid.

Your post above bears no relationship to mine. You cannot find a single post where I blame employees for YRC's plight. I have said the only way to save YRC is to cut labor costs. As I have written many times, blame whomever you choose. It changes nothing. This is the situation now and today.
Actually, I think management decisions starting with the Preston Trucking purchase, the formation of Yellow Corp followed by The Roadway/Yellow merger and spiraling debt is what brought YRC to this point. The tipping point was reached years ago and, in my opinion, there is no saving YRC. The merging of all the companies into one Yellow is the last breath.
I believe it was and is intentional. That's what holding companies do. They bleed the companies held and if one goes bankrupt, it does not affect the others. The holding company can sell off the valuable ones, Saia, and skim cash flow from the other companies until they die. It's classic corporate raiding.
Yes, take it or leave it. If YRC really wants to survive, that is their only option.

 

[Steward of the Rock]

Actually, I think management decisions starting with the Preston Trucking purchase, the formation of Yellow Corp followed by The Roadway/Yellow merger and spiraling debt is what brought YRC to this point. The tipping point was reached years ago and, in my opinion, there is no saving YRC. The merging of all the companies into one Yellow is the last breath.
I believe it was and is intentional. That's what holding companies do. They bleed the companies held and if one goes bankrupt, it does not affect the others. The holding company can sell off the valuable ones, Saia, and skim cash flow from the other companies until they die. It's classic corporate raiding.
Yes, take it or leave it. If YRC really wants to survive, that is their only option.

The problem I have with you Blade is the fact that you know this and acknowledge this, and yet you say it is good business knowing full well it is people’s livelihoods that are being affected by it. That, and the fact that you claim to have held all those Union titles in the past, yet show no sympathy whatsoever for your former brothers and sisters just trying to get to retirement to draw their pension like you currently do. Do you somehow think you are better and more deserving of your pension, or what is it? That is why I labeled you a hypocrite in past posts, and that label still fits you now.

 

[Razorblade]

That right there has got to be the funniest lines you have ever written. So you think the competition trusts the employees???? Even for you that is way out there...I say its because the things you mention are far cheaper. You just want the race to the bottom to accelerate with your approach.....but what do you care? You got yours....

Of course they are cheaper. They also provide the security of healthcare and retirement income. That's why the non union employee has the job security that comes with a viable profitable company with cash to invest in new equipment and facilities. Nobody at YRC should be buying anything they can't pay for with cash. Nobody at OD or FedEx is worried about the next paycheck bouncing. No linehaul driver at OD or FedEx is worried that they could be stranded 500 miles from home.

 

[vongrimmenstein]

The problem I have with you Blade is the fact that you know this and acknowledge this, and yet you say it is good business knowing full well it is people’s livelihoods that are being affected by it. That, and the fact that you claim to have held all those Union titles in the past, yet show no sympathy whatsoever for your former brothers and sisters just trying to get to retirement to draw their pension like you currently do. Do you somehow think you are better and more deserving of your pension, or what is it? That is why I labeled you a hypocrite in past posts, and that label still fits you now.

 

[vongrimmenstein]

You nailed it when you called him a hypocrite. von.

 

[Razorblade]

The problem I have with you Blade is the fact that you know this and acknowledge this, and yet you say it is good business knowing full well it is people’s livelihoods that are being affected by it. That, and the fact that you claim to have held all those Union titles in the past, yet show no sympathy whatsoever for your former brothers and sisters just trying to get to retirement to draw their pension like you currently do. Do you somehow think you are better and more deserving of your pension, or what is it? That is why I labeled you a hypocrite in past posts, and that label still fits you now.

It's good business because companies do not exist to provide jobs. The jobs only exist to generate revenue and profit for the owner/shareholders. Neither the local pizza shop nor Microsoft are social welfare programs. Individuals who recognize that and take responsibility for their future never have a problem. Those who depend upon the generosity of an employer are the ones left behind.
I am not more deserving of my Teamster pension than anyone else. I did, however, make better choices than some of my co-workers. When my pension was cut by 30%, it didn't change my lifestyle. Even when the pension was solid, I never considered depending on it to fully support my retirement.
The actual dollars don't matter. What matters is that saving just 5% of your income every week is 2.6 paychecks a year toward your future. Spending every dime or only asking "how much a month?" is a recipe for failure.

 

[Steward of the Rock]

It's good business because companies do not exist to provide jobs. The jobs only exist to generate revenue and profit for the owner/shareholders. Neither the local pizza shop nor Microsoft are social welfare programs. Individuals who recognize that and take responsibility for their future never have a problem. Those who depend upon the generosity of an employer are the ones left behind.
I am not more deserving of my Teamster pension than anyone else. I did, however, make better choices than some of my co-workers. When my pension was cut by 30%, it didn't change my lifestyle. Even when the pension was solid, I never considered depending on it to fully support my retirement.
The actual dollars don't matter. What matters is that saving just 5% of your income every week is 2.6 paychecks a year toward your future. Spending every dime or only asking "how much a month?" is a recipe for failure.

So basically you would like to see labor go back to the way it was in the early 1900’s. That way, big business can get rich at the expense of the working man doing 16 hour shifts, 7 days a week just to put food on the table. Man, you are a piece of work (replace work with the word of your choice).

 

[dokman]

Your post above bears no relationship to mine. You cannot find a single post where I blame employees for YRC's plight. I have said the only way to save YRC is to cut labor costs. As I have written many times, blame whomever you choose. It changes nothing. This is the situation now and today.
Actually, I think management decisions starting with the Preston Trucking purchase, the formation of Yellow Corp followed by The Roadway/Yellow merger and spiraling debt is what brought YRC to this point. The tipping point was reached years ago and, in my opinion, there is no saving YRC. The merging of all the companies into one Yellow is the last breath.
I believe it was and is intentional. That's what holding companies do. They bleed the companies held and if one goes bankrupt, it does not affect the others. The holding company can sell off the valuable ones, Saia, and skim cash flow from the other companies until they die. It's classic corporate raiding.
Yes, take it or leave it. If YRC really wants to survive, that is their only option.

Go back and read #37 where you talk about take it or leave it, read it out loud 3 times so you get it, you will see it, hear it and maybe understand it. Post #45 you talk about management bad decisions. Then you say cut labor cost I repeat
CUT LABOR COST you are a hypocrite.
Here is a thought don’t CUT LABOR COST
but instead reduce the cost associated with labor.

Feel free to take notes.
Reduce handling freight at velocity centers.
Reduce p/d miles by being more efficient with planning.
Reduce fuel cost by reducing miles in city and line haul, less miles, less fuel, less fuel tax, less repair cost on equipment, less hours on clock.
Get line haul speed up to at least 65 or 67 to get freight in to terminals quicker thus reducing p/d guys back tracking to make early closures.
MAKE MANAGEMENT ACCOUNTABLE FOR PROPER LOADS reduce damage.
Make vendors more accountable for repairs, fix the thing once not 3 times.
Give bonus to employees for not missing work, x amount of days not late, no absences, no injuries, no accident you get paid time off.
Get back to old culture, you show up with cut off sleeves or nasty clothes you get sent home.

And last but not least TREAT EMPLOYEES AS AN ASSET NOT A LIABILITY.

 

[Razorblade]

So basically you would like to see labor go back to the way it was in the early 1900’s. That way, big business can get rich at the expense of the working man doing 16 hour shifts, 7 days a week just to put food on the table. Man, you are a piece of work (replace work with the word of your choice).

Never said that. Learn a skill, a trade, get an education and never worry about minimum wages or putting food on the table. Make yourself employable, yes once again, personal responsibility. Truck driving is a skill and trade and as much bitching as there is on these boards, a class A driver's salary puts him/her in the top 20% of wage earners.
BTW: 16 hour shifts and 6 days a week sounds like a hog board linehaul driver.
Stick your head in the sand, blame the government and deregulation or all the troubles in the industry. Yes, labor is a commodity. Yes, companies exist to make money. Yes, if you don't see that, you have a problem.

 

[Steward of the Rock]

BTW: 16 hour shifts and 6 days a week sounds like a hog board linehaul driver.
Stick your head in the sand, blame the government and deregulation or all the troubles in the industry. Yes, labor is a commodity. Yes, companies exist to make money. Yes, if you don't see that, you have a problem.

I would like for you to show me a trucking company that allows their drivers to log and work 16 hours a day, 6 days a week. You think I have my head in the sand? You apparently have your head up your azz if you think the DOT would allow a line haul driver to run 16 hours a day, 6 days a week.

 

[vongrimmenstein]

I would like for you to show me a trucking company that allows their drivers to log and work 16 hours a day, 6 days a week. You think I have my head in the sand? You apparently have your head up your azz if you think the DOT would allow a line haul driver to run 16 hours a day, 6 days a week.

If you ran 16 hours you cant get 10 hrs of rest before your next shift. Right? You would be constantly catching up your hours so you can drive. And your starting time would change every day/shift. The Blade lacks common sense. von.

 

[vongrimmenstein]

Now, if all your time was on the dock, & you never drove, then there is no violation of HOS. But all of us here @ TB have enough common sense to know this Industry doesn't work that way. Almost every day most LTL people do a little of both. When I ran out of driving, I went to the dock or yard until a run came up. Even your long haul drivers do some form of dock work, bill signature, lumping, counting freight, ETC. von.

 

[vongrimmenstein]

Even your long haul drivers do some form of dock work, bill signature, lumping, counting freight, ETC. von.

Von, ABF381, and myself are all ABF. Our company is currently healthy and strong. The questions you are asking should be directed to the HNRY companies. And from some of the things I have seen you post on here, I seriously doubt that they will want your help or your opinion.

I am 6 years retired. So my knowledge of the industry is less each passing year & my advice is like my jokes, old. von.

 

[ABF381]

Never said that. Learn a skill, a trade, get an education and never worry about minimum wages or putting food on the table. Make yourself employable, yes once again, personal responsibility. Truck driving is a skill and trade and as much bitching as there is on these boards, a class A driver's salary puts him/her in the top 20% of wage earners.
BTW: 16 hour shifts and 6 days a week sounds like a hog board linehaul driver.
Stick your head in the sand, blame the government and deregulation or all the troubles in the industry. Yes, labor is a commodity. Yes, companies exist to make money. Yes, if you don't see that, you have a problem.

You don't have to say it....you imply that and your superiority complex shines through on each post....I don't understand the whole make yourself employable line, most of us are drivers on these boards, so we don't need your advice on that, as we are already employable and have personal responsibility.... some of us on these boards have had trade jobs in different industries also. I think you are the one who only sees what you want, the company side....with your negotiating skills (if you were negotiating a contract) I bet the company would be laughing all the way to the bank with some of your suggestions...please get your head out of the company sand before you suffocate...

 

[ABF381]

Even your long haul drivers do some form of dock work, bill signature, lumping, counting freight, ETC. von.

I am 6 years retired. So my knowledge of the industry is less each passing year & my advice is like my jokes, old. von.

What are you talking about?....just the other day you had a problem with working the dock for 9 hours, then driving....LMAO

 

[SAC75]

There is a limited amount of money.
Fully funding pensions means taking away something else. Wages cannot be cut any further. Will the membership vote for a deal that cuts healthcare? Are the rank and file ready for co-pays and deductibles? Will they ratify a contract that takes $100.00 a week from their pay for insurance premiums?
What would you cut to get 100% funding of pensions?

No one is voting our healthcare down! No one!!!! Would have to be a moron to ever believe that’s happening ever!!!