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ABF | 401K or Pension in next contract?

Muler said:
I heard the new ABF pension proposal is this. They will collect all the soda cans from the machines after they are emptied. And to really boost their contributions they will give us 10 on every $100.00 they get from the sales from the vending machines. Now who needs CSPF? YOUR BUYING MY LUNCH FROM THE MACHINES BROTHER ALWAYS! NEWS FLASHHHHHH! The price of aluminum has drop and the ABF pension Plan has applied for relief. The ballots will arrive written on toilet paper. They will be hand delivered by the DEFINED PENSION PLANS RETIRED ABF EXECUTIVES ON THE ABC PRIVATE JETS!
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. Entertaining there Muler, and good morning to ya! But we can't keep kickin' th,e CAN down the road. I think we will get a decent proposal if the company is committed to this idea. Don't think we'll get CEO pension at the labor level. Don't recall any company that does that. But hey, don't hurt to ask;-)
 
Like I keep saying...we will have to wait and see just what is proposed but we must all keep in mind:

You typically don't fork over any of your paycheck to participate in a defined benefit plan. Your employer does. But you do have to put your own money into a defined contribution plan like a 401(k) or a 403(b). Obviously, a defined benefit plan is a much better deal for you.

Because defined benefit plans are more costly for employers than defined contribution plans, most of them have - you guessed it - scaled back dramatically or eliminated these plans altogether in recent years. If you still have a defined benefit plan at your company, consider yourself lucky.
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What's the difference between a defined benefit plan and a defined contribution plan? - Ultimate Guide to Retirement
 
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TurnCoat said:
The pension funds did not do so well with their investing either, during the recession, or over the boom times for that matter. Therefore, they are going broke. Sad, but true.
That is the nature of investing.
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Try telling me something that I don't know...like what you forsee the company offering and what do you speculate the best plan in detail would be the best for the whole?
 
woodennose said:
Docker, I dont think Turncoat sounded self centered. Ive been a Teamster for only 19 years, and Im only 42 so I have a while to go before I can even think of retireing. I personaly would like to hear all kinds of options regarding my pension. To be honest, I have been thinking alot about an ABF 401k as long as I was in control of my money, not ABF and certainly not the Teamsters. I am very concerened about the people who are collecting their pensions now and would like to make sure somehow everybody is taking care of, But it cant keep going the way it has been or we all are going to get the short end of the stick.
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I disagree...he always refers to what is best for him while not even caring or considering other possibilities that would be the best solution for the whole when replying on this pension issue.We must always remember that when we vote on important decisions on the future of our union... it's always what's best for whole and not just what's best for me at this moment. For instance...You have been in the business for almost 20 years now and how many times have you seen brothers and sisters only agree on seniority rules when it effects them favorably but wholeheartedly disagree when it effects them negatively? IMO...he works on that same principle.
 
Well Turncoat I think the reason some people are afraid of a 401k or something similar to one is that, if they end up with nothing because of bad choices they made they have no one to blame but ones self.
 
Fat Albert said:
Well Turncoat I think the reason some people are afraid of a 401k or something similar to one is that, if they end up with nothing because of bad choices they made they have no one to blame but ones self.
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I'm far from fearing a 401k...but just what kind of deal that you think ABF will offer knowing just how desperate everyone seems to be just wanting to abandon our current plan no matter what and be willing to accept any offer made about a 401k and IMO...will offer a very crappy one to start knowing what us members think of our current plan.Like I keep stating in which no one seems to grasp...let's just see what is offered before you let them know just how scared and desperate so many seem to be about their current plan and willing to just accept any offer made. Does anyone think that they would offer us something decent from the start knowing this?
 
Docker said:
I disagree...he always refers to what is best for him while not even caring or considering other possibilities that would be the best solution for the whole when replying on this pension issue.We must always remember that when we vote on important decisions on the future of our union... it's always what's best for whole and not just what's best for me at this moment. For instance...You have been in the business for almost 20 years now and how many times have you seen brothers and sisters only agree on seniority rules when it effects them favorably but wholeheartedly disagree when it effects them negatively? IMO...he works on that same principle.
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Is it possible for you to contribute to a conversation without making it personal? Turncoat has gone out of his way not to return your personal insults. I don't know Turncoat from Adam, but I will assume as he has stated he is interested in a conversation about the pension problem. And problem it is. But it is also a promise for those who have paid into for years and look to it as security in their retirement years.

Disagree with his points, and provide counter-arguments. This medium is where ABF drivers come for the discussion of ideas, not for your ability to read the minds of people who may not share your exact same opinion.
 
Docker said:
I'm far from fearing a 401k...but just what kind of deal that you think ABF will offer knowing just how desperate everyone seems to be just wanting to abandon our current plan no matter what and be willing to accept any offer made about a 401k and IMO...will offer a very crappy one to start knowing what us members think of our current plan.Like I keep stating in which no one seems to grasp...let's just see what is offered before you let them know just how scared and desperate so many seem to be about their current plan and willing to just accept any offer made. Does anyone think that they would offer us something decent from the start knowing this?
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Well I guess I should of said that differently,I was not necessarily meaning you, I was speaking in general. I am not saying nor implying they should do a 401k. I know some people personaly that do not like investing on there own for the fear of loosing everything. I myself do not know much about investing either. But there are a lot of people that would rather let someone else do things for them,that way if something happens they do not have to execpt responsibility themselves. Hope that makes more sense,I am not very good at typing,spelling or putting things in words on paper so to speak.
 
nothumbleenough said:
Is it possible for you to contribute to a conversation without making it personal? Turncoat has gone out of his way not to return your personal insults. I don't know Turncoat from Adam, but I will assume as he has stated he is interested in a conversation about the pension problem. And problem it is. But it is also a promise for those who have paid into for years and look to it as security in their retirement years.

Disagree with his points, and provide counter-arguments. This medium is where ABF drivers come for the discussion of ideas, not for your ability to read the minds of people who may not share your exact same opinion.
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I don't want to come off too harsh here but I call it like I see it and if you don't like my posts...you simply don't have to read them. Turncoat makes it personal all by himself when he wants just what's in his best interest instead of what's best for the whole.As long as he keeps insisting that he only cares what's in his best interest and nobody else...I will also point out that in my reply but evidently you think it's OK for him to keep insulting the junior guys. And that is my counter argument or do you want and try and tell me how to debate now?

IMO...he doesn't give a rat's arse about about your typical Teamster not knowing the particulars of the stock market and investing and doesn't even care just because he thinks he's a master at investing and that would be in his best interest. That's why we have our union looking out for the retirement so your average Teamster shouldn't have the worry about losing everything he has worked for his whole life being ignorant of such matters.Like I said...everything is just all about him and either doesn't care or realize that's it's what is best for the whole and I will keep pointing that out.

Now...if you don't like my replies...simply hit ignore or you can retort...it's your choice. But no one tells me how to debate. And for your information...I don't necessarily hold anything personal against Turncoat...he states his views and I state mine...just like you did.
 
Fat Albert said:
Well I guess I should of said that differently,I was not necessarily meaning you, I was speaking in general. I am not saying nor implying they should do a 401k. I know some people personaly that do not like investing on there own for the fear of loosing everything. I myself do not know much about investing either. But there are a lot of people that would rather let someone else do things for them,that way if something happens they do not have to execpt responsibility themselves. Hope that makes more sense,I am not very good at typing,spelling or putting things in words on paper so to speak.
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Even though I quoted you Fat Albert...I was speaking in general too. I was just trying to get that message through and it just wasn't aimed at you. I just want what will be best for the whole and to make sure we all get the facts and opinions about 401k's and our current pension and what we will be offered and how the company is always observing on what is being said on these forums and IMO...they see a very good opportunity here...seeing as how most view our current plan.
 
Docker said:
Even though I quoted you Fat Albert...I was speaking in general too. I was just trying to get that message through and it just wasn't aimed at you. I just want what will be best for the whole and to make sure we all get the facts and opinions about 401k's and our current pension and what we will be offered and how the company is always observing on what is being said on these forums and IMO...they see a very good opportunity here...seeing as how most view our current plan.
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Ok just wanted to make it clear I was not trying to pick a fight. LOL
 
You are correct. Let me start by saying that the financial world calls pension plans the" GOLD STANDARD" now I like alot of you fill CSPF is not to gold right now, so that being said I might consider a UPS type of single employer plan, but I do know ABF never said anything about single employer. WHY ? Because they wants out on the cheap. ABF pays $68.40 per. day to CSPF times 260 days per year for a total of $17,784 and CSPF said no more increases above that rate. So last aug.1 who knows where our dollar per hour that was to be split between the health and pension went, or where this aug.1 will go, nothing like being kept in the dark by our own union. UPS pays $2.19 per hour or $17.52 per day for a yearly total of $4,555.20 for a single employer plan. Also if CSPF goes under we will or should receive $35.75 per year for being in a multi-employer plan,single employer plans pay 100% up to a set level which I can't remember but do know is far more than any of us will get.So if ABF does any changes to our future I hope it's not a "Hybrid 401K" because we are TEAMSTERS and we are the "GOLD STANDARD"
 
u4M2w8a said:
You are correct. Let me start by saying that the financial world calls pension plans the" GOLD STANDARD" now I like alot of you fill CSPF is not to gold right now, so that being said I might consider a UPS type of single employer plan, but I do know ABF never said anything about single employer. WHY ? Because they wants out on the cheap. ABF pays $68.40 per. day to CSPF times 260 days per year for a total of $17,784 and CSPF said no more increases above that rate. So last aug.1 who knows where our dollar per hour that was to be split between the health and pension went, or where this aug.1 will go, nothing like being kept in the dark by our own union. UPS pays $2.19 per hour or $17.52 per day for a yearly total of $4,555.20 for a single employer plan. Also if CSPF goes under we will or should receive $35.75 per year for being in a multi-employer plan,single employer plans pay 100% up to a set level which I can't remember but do know is far more than any of us will get.So if ABF does any changes to our future I hope it's not a "Hybrid 401K" because we are TEAMSTERS and we are the "GOLD STANDARD"
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You have brought up a good point to beware of:

Much of today's debate over pension plans centers around schemes to dump solid traditional plans in favor of riskier 401(k)-type plans. But there is a third kind of pension. It's called a "cash-balance plan" and it bears watching-particularly because recent legal and congressional decisions could make this retirement hybrid more attractive to employers.

Here is how the three basic plans work:

Beware hybrids in the pension world | American Teacher | Professional Journal archives from AllBusiness.com
 
I take nothing personal posted. I'm always interested in others opinions. That's why I've shared my point of view. I guess my sarcasm sometimes is offensive.
 
TurnCoat said:
I take nothing personal posted. I'm always interested in others opinions. That's why I've shared my point of view. I guess my sarcasm sometimes is offensive.
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I feel the same...though it may not seem like it to some...I never hold anything personal against the posters themselves on this site. After all...that's what we are all on here for is to air our opinions,exchange ideas,state your point of view and have a debate every so often. And as it could and will sometimes happen...once in awhile some insults fly...but that's truckers for ya...lol
 
I am easily hurt. Just remember that when you are thinking about saying something mean to me. lol YOUR SENSITIVE BROTHER ALWAYS!
 
You start talking about retirement plans and savings it's always going to be a spirited discussion. We will all do well to study the problem an educate ourselves on possible options. As Muler often points out, (paraphrased) 'an informed negotiator is a better negotiator.' I'm sure ABF will visit this issue again, they have to, but it seems there is some pension legislation they are watching right now. Not if, but when they address it, if you don't like things about the proposal, take your concerns to your BA and attend the meetings if at all possible. You can write or send a petition to the IBT, if you have enough members to support your point of view. When we get a proper proposal then vote your conscience, and by all means VOTE!
 
rc30 said:
Sorry, for posting. I will just read from now on. Good day brothers.
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Don't be sorry rc30... it was just the way you started off that got to me...what point are you trying to get across?
 
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