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TForce | doctor's note

liebstandarte said:
Article 41- Existing practices- Within 60 days of the ratifacation, the company and the union shall establish a joint committee to document agreed upon work rules and practices at the_________ facility. Any dispute shall be referred to the chairs of the company and union negotiating committees. interpretation of work rules are grievable.:1036316054:
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Exactly, like I said before I bet there is a race between the company and union to see who can get out the rule book or the contract first. If the rule book comes out then the contract gets ratified wouldn't the new rules were talking about be "current practice" and not subject to a grievance.


Also It says any disputes will be handled by the joint committee, not a grievance hearing.
 
Overnite said:
Exactly, like I said before I bet there is a race between the company and union to see who can get out the rule book or the contract first. If the rule book comes out then the contract gets ratified wouldn't the new rules were talking about be "current practice" and not subject to a grievance.


Also It says any disputes will be handled by the joint committee, not a grievance hearing.
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NO, you can not make rule changes during Negotiations. It is called a Bi-lateral move. That is why the new rules will not be set in stone until after the contract is done. It is not allowed. Believe what ever you want "Perry Mason" . I have been in a union before, once the the work rules are set. The way the manager and the union interpt them is grievable. If I call in sick and follow the proper work rules and then the manager says I didn't and gives me an unexcused absense. That is grievable. Work rules are not grievable, the way they are implemented is grievable.
 
liebstandarte said:
NO, you can not make rule changes during Negotiations. It is called a Bi-lateral move. That is why the new rules will not be set in stone until after the contract is done. It is not allowed. Believe what ever you want "Perry Mason" . I have been in a union before, once the the work rules are set. The way the manager and the union interpt them is grievable. If I call in sick and follow the proper work rules and then the manager says I didn't and gives me an unexcused absense. That is grievable. Work rules are not grievable, the way they are implemented is grievable.
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You may be right about the bi-lateral moves There was an article explaining the bi-lateral moves on teamster.org but that link now access somthing different.

Do you think it is weird that the company is saying when the new rule book is coming out. If they know when it is coming out then they would have to know when the contract is gonna be ratified.

We will have to wait and see on another forum that is for UPS package there was a discussion where it was unanimous everyone said UPS makes rules up all the time and there not negoitiated with the union, Most everyone says the union has nothing to do with rules and policies just the enforcement of them.
 
Overnite said:
You may be right about the bi-lateral moves There was an article explaining the bi-lateral moves on teamster.org but that link now access somthing different.

Do you think it is weird that the company is saying when the new rule book is coming out. If they know when it is coming out then they would have to know when the contract is gonna be ratified.

We will have to wait and see on another forum that is for UPS package there was a discussion where it was unanimous everyone said UPS makes rules up all the time and there not negoitiated with the union, Most everyone says the union has nothing to do with rules and policies just the enforcement of them.
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Once the contract is ratified, the company must meet with the union and agree to change a work rule. When those new rules came out in Feb. I got a call from my local union pres. and he told me that the union would fight this because they were in the process of neg. I have said before that the company can violate anything in the contract they want too, but they have to answer for the violation in a grievance hearing. And the loss of a grievance hearing is $$$$$. Contracts are violated all the time.
 
liebstandarte said:
Once the contract is ratified, the company must meet with the union and agree to change a work rule. When those new rules came out in Feb. I got a call from my local union pres. and he told me that the union would fight this because they were in the process of neg. I have said before that the company can violate anything in the contract they want too, but they have to answer for the violation in a grievance hearing. And the loss of a grievance hearing is $$$$$. Contracts are violated all the time.
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You are not in a contract and this means it is not ratified so anything that happens prior to this point is irrelevant. Also, your local Pres. has about as much clout in this union drive as a new hire in the mail room. This is Hoffa's project and his only. :smilie_132:
 
acsx99773 said:
You are not in a contract and this means it is not ratified so anything that happens prior to this point is irrelevant. Also, your local Pres. has about as much clout in this union drive as a new hire in the mail room. This is Hoffa's project and his only. :smilie_132:
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I didn't know you were in the know with Hoffa.:hysterical: What a joke that first part of your statement is, you need to learn some union and learn it quick.:biglaugh:
 
liebstandarte said:
I didn't know you were in the know with Hoffa.:hysterical: What a joke that first part of your statement is, you need to learn some union and learn it quick.:biglaugh:
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Here is a quote from the T'sters site

"In all but a handful of cases, union and management negotiators will ultimately agree on how a contract should be changed. This is called a "tentative agreement." The agreement only becomes a contract when a majority of the members involved vote to ratify the pact."

All we have done so far is sign a card to be recognized. NO ONE with the exception of Indy has ratified anything and thus again, YOU are not under contract and therefore subject to whatever policies you will need to obey in order to stay employed by UPGF:chairshot:


I am not in the know with Hoffa and never said such. But, it has been obvious, to most, since late 2006, that this has been a give and take between UPS and Hoffa and his crew. It was said from our BA at our meeting that the local's will have very little say about how or when things will be done. They are just messengers in this drive.
 
Both of you are right, but talking about different things

Liebs is saying current practices can't be changed becuase the company can't make any bi-lateral moves the agreement was posted on the teamster website but the link now points to a different article unrelated, what he says is true but what constitutes a bi-lateral move who knows.

acsx your correct we are not teamsters or under a contract the cards don't go into effect until a contract is ratified.
 
Overnite said:
Both of you are right, but talking about different things

Liebs is saying current practices can't be changed becuase the company can't make any bi-lateral moves the agreement was posted on the teamster website but the link now points to a different article unrelated, what he says is true but what constitutes a bi-lateral move who knows.

acsx your correct we are not teamsters or under a contract the cards don't go into effect until a contract is ratified.
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Once the cards are certified by the NLRB, we are members. We have no contract ,but we have rights under Wiengarten laws. The dues don't start until after the contract is ratified.
 
Overnite said:
Weingarten laws just state you can have a fellow employee present during discipline procedures.
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Yes, and those are rights you don't have if you are non-union. Management doesn't like to have a witness present in an employee meeting unless the witness is management friendly.:1036316054:
 
liebstandarte said:
Once the cards are certified by the NLRB, we are members. We have no contract ,but we have rights under Wiengarten laws. The dues don't start until after the contract is ratified.
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There is no such thing as a "Weingarten law". It is, however, a right, as explained below. This has nothing to do with my original post that you quoted. You are grasping at straws.....

"Weingarten rights" derive from a 1975 Supreme Court case, NLRB v. J. Weingarten, Inc. Essentially, they are the right to request assistance from union representatives during investigatory interviews, so that a steward may prevent management from coercing an employee into confessions of misconduct (either through threatening behavior, or simply through skilled interrogation techniques).
 
acsx99773 said:
There is no such thing as a "Weingarten law". It is, however, a right, as explained below. This has nothing to do with my original post that you quoted. You are grasping at straws.....

"Weingarten rights" derive from a 1975 Supreme Court case, NLRB v. J. Weingarten, Inc. Essentially, they are the right to request assistance from union representatives during investigatory interviews, so that a steward may prevent management from coercing an employee into confessions of misconduct (either through threatening behavior, or simply through skilled interrogation techniques).
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When the Supreme Court of the USA decides a case, THE RULING BECOMES LAW! Other wise the company would not be in violation of anything. You spend to much time parsing words. I might as well argue with a house plant than respond to you.
 
liebstandarte said:
When the Supreme Court of the USA deciedes a case. THE RULING BECOMES LAW! Other wise the company would not be in violation of anything. You spend to much time parsing words. I might as well argue with a house plant than respond to you.
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You are wrong and sooo far off base. This is not uncommon for you though. When it comes to a debate, and it does not go your way, you change the course of your quotes and posts and thus, original debate gets lost. This is what what makes this fictional forum fun.....:smilie_132:
 
liebstandarte said:
When the Supreme Court of the USA decides a case, THE RULING BECOMES LAW! Other wise the company would not be in violation of anything. You spend to much time parsing words. I might as well argue with a house plant than respond to you.
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A house plant can debate you under the table. :chairshot:
 
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