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SAIA | DriveCam ... By Lytx

bigbuck said:
The term "self insured" needs clarification. That refers to companies whose insurance doesn't kick in until a pretty high number...lots of times in the millions. Last I checked, Saia was self insured to $2 million, meaning Saia pays everything until that number is reached, then insurance kicks in. Saia runs a lot of equipment down the road, so their exposure is pretty high. The correlation between insurance and the technology in the cab is so that Saia can potentially use that data in court in order to assign fault. Also, in the event of a catastrophic accident, where property and life loss is substantial, the EOBR can provide lawyers and the insurance companies they represent with ammunition in a courtroom.
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5 million now
 
bigbuck said:
The term "self insured" needs clarification. That refers to companies whose insurance doesn't kick in until a pretty high number...lots of times in the millions. Last I checked, Saia was self insured to $2 million, meaning Saia pays everything until that number is reached, then insurance kicks in. Saia runs a lot of equipment down the road, so their exposure is pretty high. The correlation between insurance and the technology in the cab is so that Saia can potentially use that data in court in order to assign fault. Also, in the event of a catastrophic accident, where property and life loss is substantial, the EOBR can provide lawyers and the insurance companies they represent with ammunition in a courtroom.
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Fair enough. That's a pretty good explanation that makes sense.
 
Songremainsthesame said:
Got to disagree with you there, if you set off the lane departure more than once in 20 seconds you're distracted, and if it takes longer than 5-6 seconds to react to a vehicle in front of you I would say the same. We have lane departure at OD and I dealt with the Bendix system at CW.
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Have you ever tried to keep a 6 second following distance in Chicago traffic? If they expect you to brake every time a car comes within 6 seconds of you, you might as well just park the truck until rush hour is over, because the minute you slow down for one car, 2 others will get in front of you and force you to brake again. Repeat, repeat, repeat. Pretty much every driver here that has a nanny-cam gets at least one or two videos a day. It's become a running joke around here of who will get the most coachings per night for "following too close" even though in the video it looks like the car is a quarter mile in front of you.

I stand by my original statement that they are set way too sensitive.
 
runawaytrain said:
TeG7LPj.jpg

Do you guys believe this statement to be true?
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It's what happened at Con-Way. Not so much that the sensitivity was dialed back, because their cameras aren't tied into the Bendix or lane departure systems and aren't really that easy to set off. But the amount of coaching for frivolous BS went way down, and they eventually had to scrap their "points system" that gave each different type of infraction a certain number of points and assigned different disciplinary actions to be used once a driver's score got to different levels. After a while all disciplinary action was removed from the Drive Cam program and now it's only used as a "learning tool".

Con-Way was also WAYYYYY more overbearing about micromanagement and discipline than Saia, though. Although it seems they are going down the same road that Con-Way did.

At the end of the day, I think the thing that will cause the most people to leave will be their rule prohibiting Bluetooth and CB radio use. Hopefully they will be compelled to get rid of that nonsense.
 
It's unfortunate that the system seems to be "one size fits all." Driving in Chicago rush hour is completely different than running over the road in the western states. Also, who is doing the coaching...drivers or managers? Managers generally don't understand to rigors of driving, only what some manual tells them. Manuals tend to. It translate well to real world applications.
 
PistonRing83 said:
Have you ever tried to keep a 6 second following distance in Chicago traffic? If they expect you to brake every time a car comes within 6 seconds of you, you might as well just park the truck until rush hour is over, because the minute you slow down for one car, 2 others will get in front of you and force you to brake again. Repeat, repeat, repeat. Pretty much every driver here that has a nanny-cam gets at least one or two videos a day. It's become a running joke around here of who will get the most coachings per night for "following too close" even though in the video it looks like the car is a quarter mile in front of you.

I stand by my original statement that they are set way too sensitive.
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I misunderstood what you said, I thought you meant 6 seconds to react if someone moved in front of you or pulled out, not following distance. And yes, I've tried to keep following distance up in Chicagoland, and it's impossible. I've never actually had to drive a truck with the cameras, I quit CW before they put them in.
 
Songremainsthesame said:
I misunderstood what you said, I thought you meant 6 seconds to react if someone moved in front of you or pulled out, not following distance. And yes, I've tried to keep following distance up in Chicagoland, and it's impossible. I've never actually had to drive a truck with the cameras, I quit CW before they put them in.
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Song, I received your Private message and will respond shortly. In regards to following distance they are a bit sensitive but they can be tweaked as time goes on if deemed necessary. I've driven in bumper to bumper traffic in Dallas daily in P&D since day one with DriveCam and have been coached several times in regards to following distance. Look it's no big deal !!! They understand traffic conditions but they are required to go over it with you to make sure the Smith system is being utilized correctly. Coaching and write ups are completely different in regards to severity. Severity with DriveCam consist of mostly two things that will get you. Seatbelts and phone usage. Follow the law and company policy and you will be fine. The rest ..... following distance, hard braking, cornering are judged on a case by case basis. If I'm not doing anything illegal or things that are in direct conflict with company policy then I don't concern myself with it. We don't have a point system in regards to DriveCam. Seatbelts and phone usage will get you write ups that will jeopardize your job. The rest are looked at but are not generally considered severe unless the video capture is careless in nature. They know and you know by looking at the video if you made a serious mistake. Many on here are just paranoid. Managers have a job to do. Let them do it and you do yours. Safety should be your number one concern. This technology helps us stay more aware and for me that's all that matters. This technology helps keep us from becoming complacent. Complacency is dangerously unsafe.
 
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runawaytrain said:
Song, I received your Private message and will respond shortly. In regards to following distance they are a bit sensitive but they can be tweaked as time goes on if deemed necessary. I've driven in bumper to bumper traffic in Dallas daily in P&D since day one with DriveCam and have been coached several times in regards to following distance. Look it's no big deal !!! They understand traffic conditions but they are required to go over it with you to make sure the Smith system is being utilized correctly. Coaching and write ups are completely different in regards to severity. Severity with DriveCam consist of mostly two things that will get you. Seatbelts and phone usage. Follow the law and company policy and you will be fine. The rest ..... following distance, hard braking, cornering are judged on a case by case basis. If I'm not doing anything illegal or things that are in direct conflict with company policy then I don't concern myself with it. We don't have a point system in regards to DriveCam. Seatbelts and phone usage will get you write ups that will jeopardize your job. The rest are looked at but are not in generally considered severe unless the video capture is careless in nature. They know and you know by looking at the video. Many on here are just paranoid. Managers have a job to do. Let them do it and you do yours. Safety should be your number one concern. This technology helps us stay more aware and for me that's all that matters.
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Tell that to the guys up here that get retrained because they have too many videos. They didn't have any write-ups either. Hopefully once they go fleet wide with it, they will have no more time to nit pick because there are so many meaningless videos to go thorough.
 
PistonRing83 said:
Tell that to the guys up here that get retrained because they have too many videos. They didn't have any write-ups either. Hopefully once they go fleet wide with it, they will have no more time to nit pick because there are so many meaningless videos to go thorough.
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Lytx reviews and sends the videos to SAIA. They need to settle down and stop sending ones that are not serious.
 
PistonRing83 said:
I know how it works and obviously I agree.
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As a man with 40+ years of safe driving and having in the past taught the Smith System I can tell you one thing that DriveCam does that's frustrating in regards to video capturing. Everything is black and white. It's not. I will give you one example of my latest video capture. I pull up to the customers dock (private property) and prepare to back. I take my seatbelt off because I prefer to lean out the window a bit as I back because I like the mobility being seatbelt free gives me. I get a better perspective of my surroundings whether it's blindsiding or not. It's just the way I feel comfortable with backing and it has served me well. So I hit the dock a bit hard but not that hard and it triggers an event. Had the rubber pads on the dock not been worn out it probably wouldn't have triggered it. Let me say if I'm on public streets I never remove my seatbelt to back because that would be illegal. The video didn't capture the big picture. It didn't show me even taking it off. It only showed me not having it on when I hit the dock a bit hard. Look, if I'm forced to change my backing habits I suppose I will. But IMO Lytx should have never sent that video over. It's forcing me to change what has worked for over 40+ years of safe driving. And that's just not right.
 
Therein lies the rub. Things get taken out of context, corners get cut and assumptions get made. There is no such thing as common sense anymore. What makes it worse is with our litigious society these big companies with lots to lose feel forced to overprotect themselves. Unfortunately I don't see it getting any better.
 
Songremainsthesame said:
Therein lies the rub. Things get taken out of context, corners get cut and assumptions get made. There is no such thing as common sense anymore. What makes it worse is with our litigious society these big companies with lots to lose feel forced to overprotect themselves. Unfortunately I don't see it getting any better.
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They are trying to fix what isn't broken at least in my case. I just don't get it.
 
runawaytrain said:
As a man with 40+ years of safe driving and having in the past taught the Smith System I can tell you one thing that DriveCam does that's frustrating in regards to video capturing. Everything is black and white. It's not. I will give you one example of my latest video capture. I pull up to the customers dock (private property) and prepare to back. I take my seatbelt off because I prefer to lean out the window a bit as I back because I like the mobility being seatbelt free gives me. I get a better perspective of my surroundings whether it's blindsiding or not. It's just the way I feel comfortable with backing and it has served me well. So I hit the dock a bit hard but not that hard and it triggers an event. Had the rubber pads on the dock not been worn out it probably wouldn't have triggered it. Let me say if I'm on public streets I never remove my seatbelt to back because that would be illegal. The video didn't capture the big picture. It didn't show me even taking it off. It only showed me not having it on when I hit the dock a bit hard. Look, if I'm forced to change my backing habits I suppose I will. But IMO Lytx should have never sent that video over. It's forcing me to change what has worked for over 40+ years of safe driving. And that's just not right.
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Get use to it. It what you championed.
 
upnorth said:
Get use to it. It what you championed.
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I don't have to like everything that happens at SAIA but I do have to play by their rules and accept things as they are. I have no problems doing that. Right or wrong is not for me to decide. It's not my company and I don't set the rules. I still consider it a privilege to work here. Not a right. Anything negative concerning DriveCam is far outweighed by the positive. Nothing in this life is perfect.
 
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bigbuck said:
It's unfortunate that the system seems to be "one size fits all." Driving in Chicago rush hour is completely different than running over the road in the western states. Also, who is doing the coaching...drivers or managers? Managers generally don't understand to rigors of driving, only what some manual tells them. Manuals tend to. It translate well to real world applications.
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Managers understand when a big name e-mail hits their desk demanding that they "take care" of something that is making their boss look bad to his boss. Coachable video's is one of those looking bad moments. The manager is not going to care how fair or not fair it is only that he can show documentation that he coached the driver.That documentation never goes away.
 
runawaytrain said:
As a man with 40+ years of safe driving and having in the past taught the Smith System I can tell you one thing that DriveCam does that's frustrating in regards to video capturing. Everything is black and white. It's not. I will give you one example of my latest video capture. I pull up to the customers dock (private property) and prepare to back. I take my seatbelt off because I prefer to lean out the window a bit as I back because I like the mobility being seatbelt free gives me. I get a better perspective of my surroundings whether it's blindsiding or not. It's just the way I feel comfortable with backing and it has served me well. So I hit the dock a bit hard but not that hard and it triggers an event. Had the rubber pads on the dock not been worn out it probably wouldn't have triggered it. Let me say if I'm on public streets I never remove my seatbelt to back because that would be illegal. The video didn't capture the big picture. It didn't show me even taking it off. It only showed me not having it on when I hit the dock a bit hard. Look, if I'm forced to change my backing habits I suppose I will. But IMO Lytx should have never sent that video over. It's forcing me to change what has worked for over 40+ years of safe driving. And that's just not right.
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That's exactly why most of us hate them and want nothing to do with them. I don't think I've EVER been coached for anything in my life that I'd consider worthy of even mentioning. When Con-Way started it, it was absolutely ridiculous: drinking coffee or water while driving, having my seatbelt off while in the yard, etc. I even got coached once for not having both hands on the steering wheel. The few times I've been in a camera truck here at Saia it's been the same deal, only now the cameras over here are about 5 times easier to set off and they have even more things to nit pick about since they want to blaze this trail of no Bluetooth or CB bullcrap. It's all been asinine BS that any experienced truck driver would dismiss as a frivolous waste of time even mentioning. But unfortunately we don't have experienced drivers in management anymore ever since this industry decided it made more sense to hire only college educated idiots that can barely back their Toyota out of a parking lot without hitting something, and have not a blessed clue what it's like to even sit in a truck, let alone drive it.

Yes, Con-Way pretty much ruined me. After absolutely loving my job for the first 4 years, and then having everything go down the toilet in the last few years because of the bean counters and number crunchers, I pretty much have a dim view of anyone in power that doesn't have a CDL anymore. Saia was a breath of fresh air for the first couple years because they just left you alone, let you do your job, and as long as you didn't screw up you never heard from anyone about anything. But now they are doing the exact same crap that Con-Way did, and they are going to be just as shocked when a huge percentage of their drivers leave and go somewhere else. It seems like it's not going to be just for the cameras either (the camera wasn't the main reason I left Con-Way). But along with these cameras comes excessive micromanagment and overbearing BS that no decent driver wants to deal with, because 99.9% of what that camera sees is just things they are going to try and incriminate you with. They have already had a bunch leave just in the last year of having only 200 camera trucks in the fleet. When they more than quadruple that number it's going to get real interesting. Even more interesting considering they are opening 4 new terminals soon and need to attract all the people they can get. And this is all on top of the fact that most of the terminals up here can't keep drivers as it is, already.

The bottom line for me is going to be whether or not they get rid of the Bluetooth and CB rule. Even if every other carrier may have cameras eventually, I'd rather go drive for one that doesn't impose ridiculous restrictions like that on their drivers. Even at their worst, Con-Way didn't do crap like that.
 
Keep this in mind too folks...each and every time there is an incident or instance where you are being coached, it goes into your file. When and if the time comes, that data can and will be used against you as grounds for termination. Think of it as just another bullet in the gun. Companies live data, and while they may downplay it now, it can and will come back to hurt in the end.
 
bigbuck said:
Keep this in mind too folks...each and every time there is an incident or instance where you are being coached, it goes into your file. When and if the time comes, that data can and will be used against you as grounds for termination. Think of it as just another bullet in the gun. Companies live data, and while they may downplay it now, it can and will come back to hurt in the end.
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I'm so close to retirement now that I really don't care. If I get fired then it was just in the cards. They would have found something else to fire me for had it not been that. I would like to think your wrong Buck but at this point I just can't say. I do know if they start that it will hurt them with driver retention. They just may turn into another XPO ... Either way I won't be here. I do know that as of today OD and FedEx don't have cameras in the cab in the new equipment they are getting. I think the future of this technology will be put in these 2 companies hands. Once they go the rest will follow. I'm now standing on the fence with this technology. It's best I stop now. Good day gentleman.
 
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