ABF | Pension

[tutone710]

Chicago 309

Muler we have to come up with something we can all live with. I know we are going to have to give up something to help ABF if we want them to compete. The two articles above are full of info.

ABF and the teamsters will come up with something they can live with. The members will be told if you don't like it. Go work somwhere else.

 

[nothumbleenough]

I assume you were talking to me nothumbleenough. If so here is the information you REQUESTED! YOUR WELCOME BROTHER ALWAYS!

ABF has contributed the following amounts to multiemployer pension plans in recent years: $104 million in 2009; $120 million in 2010; and $133 million in 2011. Those contributions alone represent almost 8% of ABF’s total revenues from those years.

http://edworkforce.house.gov/uploadedfiles/06.20.12_mcreyolds.pdf

As of August, ABF had 6730 full time employees paying into the pension. Therefore, $133,000,000, / 6730= $19,762 per teamster. If ABF is going to exist in two years and still be a union company, it will have to be many thousands less per employee.

Our non-union competition is pretty close on wages, but not on retirement. For example a road driver makes roughly $80,000 at Fedex. If that employee contributes 6% of his pay, the company will match up to 50%. So $4800 from the employee in this example, $2400 from the employee. So currently, our largest competitor pays $19,762 - $2400 = $17,362 per employee less in retirement benefits than ABF.

 

[papajohn]

As of August, ABF had 6730 full time employees paying into the pension. Therefore, $133,000,000, / 6730= $19,762 per teamster. If ABF is going to exist in two years and still be a union company, it will have to be many thousands less per employee.

Our non-union competition is pretty close on wages, but not on retirement. For example a road driver makes roughly $80,000 at Fedex. If that employee contributes 6% of his pay, the company will match up to 50%. So $4800 from the employee in this example, $2400 from the employee. So currently, our largest competitor pays $19,762 - $2400 = $17,362 per employee less in retirement benefits than ABF.

What are you suggesting?

 

[nothumbleenough]

What are you suggesting?

To lesson the pension obligation on ABF or it will go out of business. Period.

 

[Docker]

To lesson the pension obligation on ABF or it will go out of business. Period.

That's no answer...let's hear some suggestions on how to lessen the pension obligation?

 

[nothumbleenough]

BTW, have been told Fedex increased 401k contribution to a 100% match in 2011. So to be fair, our competition would only pay $14962 less in retirement benefit per employee than ABF.

 

[nothumbleenough]

That's no answer...let's hear some suggestions on how to lessen the pension obligation?

Asked and answered before. Nobody liked the answer. IT WOULD BE PAINFUL FOR EVERYONE! NO EXCEPTIONS.

We are not talking our about a few dollars here or there.

Looks like we are on the edge of going into another recession based on fiscal cliff issues our country faces earlier next year regardless of who gets elected president. If that plays out, and is anywhere as severe as the previous recession, ABF will no longer be in business.

The entire LTL freight business has changed since the last recession. Most LTL companies are national but use contractors to get freight from Kansas City to points west. These companies new to National LTL offer a significant savings to customers and we are losing that aspect of our business. To counter, we are getting into the Regional LTL market. An area that is not our traditional bread and butter.

 

[Docker]

Asked and answered before. Nobody liked the answer. IT WOULD BE PAINFUL FOR EVERYONE! NO EXCEPTIONS.

As I recall...Muler told you why before also...which you had no reply...and yet...here you are...still trying...but the big question is why?

 

[tutone710]

Chicago 309

That's no answer...let's hear some suggestions on how to lessen the pension obligation?

They dont want to hear the truth about whats coming. Welcome to the YRC party.

 

[papajohn]

To lesson the pension obligation on ABF or it will go out of business. Period.

I don't believe that, Maybe they will have to look into what ups and the eastern fund is doing, but to give away your pension is not the answer. If you don't want your pension then you can give yours back, I am not willing to give up on mine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[papajohn]

They dont want to hear the truth about whats coming. Welcome to the YRC party.

This is not YRC. YRCW management made bad decisions, and they have a record for putting companies out of business, that is how yrcw survives and everybody knows what they do. Maybe it is time to rethink CSPF, and start thinking more about a ABF pension. I would like to hear more about a ABF PENSION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[nothumbleenough]

I said to lesson the pension obligation. $19,762 per employee is way too much considering no one else is paying anything close to that in the LTL trucking industry, which is the industry we compete in. This is basic economic theory.

Why do you think ABF stock is now trading under $8? Some sort of mad conspiracy by the company show losses on the quarterly performance right before we negotiate a new contract. Bull****! The Capital Markets, where companies go to finance capital investments is saying they don't think ABF has a good business model. They could be wrong, but most of the time they are not.

The business model whereby ABF pays an additional 7.5% over all of its competition for our pension benefits is no longer viable. The economic condition of our country puts price above all other considerations when deciding who to do business with. We can change the model, thereby lowering pension obligation, or continue to increase the pension obligation at 8% annually. This will bring death to the company, and since it is now the largest contributor to Central States, death the CSPF.

 

[nothumbleenough]

As I recall...Muler told you why before also...which you had no reply...and yet...here you are...still trying...but the big question is why?

Yes, I remember his response being no cuts what so ever in the pension. His solutions are to have ABF guarantee the pension of its own employees and to allow ABF the opportunity to pay us a bonus but let it sit in their bank account until year end so they can earn less than 1% in interest income and improve their cash position.

Kind of like handing a klennex to a stage III cancer victim who also happens to have a running nose and acting like they should be cured.

 

[nothumbleenough]

That's no answer...let's hear some suggestions on how to lessen the pension obligation?

Actually it is a straight forward and direct answer. You may not like it, but if the negotiation committee where to read the results of the poll that started this thread, they would be following majority opinion.

 

[albag]

This is not YRC. YRCW management made bad decisions, and they have a record for putting companies out of business, that is how yrcw survives and everybody knows what they do. Maybe it is time to rethink CSPF, and start thinking more about a ABF pension. I would like to hear more about a ABF PENSION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You correctly assert that the financials of ABF are very different than YRCW. But the legal realities of withdrawing from the multi-employer pension funds is at best IMO unlikely. As I understand, ABF has studied this option before. At that time ABF had enough reserves to pay the unfunded liability penalty. That however did not leave enough liquidity to provide for a new pension fund for ABF employees only. A negotiated reduction in pension finding is IMO ABF's most likely strategy.

 

[Joe the plumber]

This is not YRC. YRCW management made bad decisions, and they have a record for putting companies out of business, that is how yrcw survives and everybody knows what they do. Maybe it is time to rethink CSPF, and start thinking more about a ABF pension. I would like to hear more about a ABF PENSION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

papa, it's okay to shut regional's down when they don't perform. Remember, it's a business first, an ATM machine second. The YRC buyouts were not a bad decision in itself. Big buyouts happen all the time. ABF bought and shut down Carolina in the quest of becoming a super power. Grow or die. Watch the financial crashes. They will put a crimp in your plan.

 

[Docker]

I said to lesson the pension obligation. $19,762 per employee is way too much considering no one else is paying anything close to that in the LTL trucking industry, which is the industry we compete in. This is basic economic theory.

Why do you think ABF stock is now trading under $8? Some sort of mad conspiracy by the company show losses on the quarterly performance right before we negotiate a new contract. Bull****! The Capital Markets, where companies go to finance capital investments is saying they don't think ABF has a good business model. They could be wrong, but most of the time they are not.

The business model whereby ABF pays an additional 7.5% over all of its competition for our pension benefits is no longer viable. The economic condition of our country puts price above all other considerations when deciding who to do business with. We can change the model, thereby lowering pension obligation, or continue to increase the pension obligation at 8% annually. This will bring death to the company, and since it is now the largest contributor to Central States, death the CSPF.

Why don't you try reading these posts by Muler again:

I did not see where you posted the start up money ABC paid for Value Freight,or Moving Solutions, Also we bought that moving company and lets not forget that $180,000,000.00 we spent on Panther. Not to mention the more than one thousand new tractors and the several thousand new trailers that was purchased. And since you are at it why don't you tell all our Brothers that the numbers ABC post are combined from all their subsidiaries. That's right if the planes need new tires guess who pays for them. I did not see where you posted the millions ABC spent on New cubes. I did not see where you posted the over $100,000,000.00 they spent on stock dividends to themselves during a recession. I did not see where you posted they have given themselves hundreds of thousands in raises millions in pensions for the executives. But all I hear from you is we need to give our money back to ABC. Are you kidding? I will tell you what just give me what Wes got and I will walk away happy. YOUR LOOKING FOR ANSWERS AND NOT PACKING IT IN BROTHER ALWAYS!

Are you for real saying you see OD as a business model of ABF. Well maybe if ABF did not pay us the overtime they pay and if they did not supply our health insurance. And if they lowered our hourly wage then maybe your statement would be true. But no they don't and ABF does. Like I said before if you think ABF is paying you too much write them a check at the end of every week. And on the matter of the stock price. Just watch the SEC Filings and see when the executives exercise their STOCK OPTIONS! AND BUY AND BUY! You have to come up with better stuff than this. YOUR WAITING TO SEE THE CANCELED CHECKS BROTHER ALWAYS!

And how about taking this advice:

If you want ABF to be like YRC, then why don't you go back to a YRC company. What you are asking for is to destroy everybody's pension, If we accept concessions on this next contract everybody will suffer, and it could most likely be a government payout and CSPF will be clear to do whatever they want. Everybody involved should be held accountable. I AGREE WITH MULER 100%, and if I have anything to do with it anything less will be a no vote from me.

Also...do you remember this?

I believe the last red zone mailing indicated the CSPF was funded at 37%.

Do you think that I forgot how you tried making a bad situation a whole lot worse by this statement trying to prove your point before...and as I pointed out before...the fund was 58.9% funded according to this last statement:
http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&key=48e99760d12100dedbfad96f7a054de2&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.truckingboards.com%2Fforum%2Fyrc-freight%2F82127-notice-critical-status-central-states-pension-fund.html&v=1&libid=1346259274903&out=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.viglink.com%2Fapi%2Fclick%3Fformat%3Dgo%26key%3D48e99760d12100dedbfad96f7a054de2%26loc%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.truckingboards.com%252Fforum%252Fyrc-freight%252F82127-notice-critical-status-central-states-pension-fund.html%26v%3D1%26libid%3D1346259274903%26out%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fdl.dropbox.com%252Fu%252F42059564%252FTruckingboards%252FYRC%252F2011%252520Annual%252520Funding%252520Notice%252520For%252520CSPF.pdf%26ref%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.truckingboards.com%252Fforum%252Fyrc-freight%252F82127-notice-critical-status-central-states-pension-fund-2.html%26title%3DNotice%2520of%2520Critical%2520Status%2522%2520for%2520the%2520Central%2520States%2520Pension%2520Fund%26txt%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fdl.dropbox.com%252Fu%252F42059564%252FTru...For%252520CSPF.pdf%26jsonp%3Dvglnk_jsonp_13462592791633&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.truckingboards.com%2Fforum%2Fyrc-freight%2F82127-notice-critical-status-central-states-pension-fund-2.html&title=Notice%20of%20Critical%20Status%22%20for%20the%20Central%20States%20Pension%20Fund&txt=http%3A%2F%2Fdl.dropbox.com%2Fu%2F42059564%2FTru...For%2520CSPF.pdf&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13462592882115



So...do you not think that we can't see what you are all about?

 

[Docker]

You correctly assert that the financials of ABF are very different than YRCW. But the legal realities of withdrawing from the multi-employer pension funds is at best IMO unlikely. As I understand, ABF has studied this option before. At that time ABF had enough reserves to pay the unfunded liability penalty. That however did not leave enough liquidity to provide for a new pension fund for ABF employees only. A negotiated reduction in pension finding is IMO ABF's most likely strategy.

Here's a question for you...You will not be happy until ABF Teamsters are getting the same concessions that you are...will you? You made your decision so live it it! I know...misery loves company...right? Sounds like jealousy to me.

 

[Docker]

The YRC buyouts were not a bad decision in itself.

They sure were!!!!! Your pal Billy knew what was coming and what does he go and do...gets buried in debt! So don't even try that BS!

 

[nothumbleenough]

Why don't you try reading these posts by Muler again:




And how about taking this advice:




Also...do you remember this?



Do you think that I forgot how you tried making a bad situation a whole lot worse by this statement trying to prove your point before...and as I pointed out before...the fund was 58.9% funded according to this last statement:
http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&key=48e99760d12100dedbfad96f7a054de2&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.truckingboards.com%2Fforum%2Fyrc-freight%2F82127-notice-critical-status-central-states-pension-fund.html&v=1&libid=1346259274903&out=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.viglink.com%2Fapi%2Fclick%3Fformat%3Dgo%26key%3D48e99760d12100dedbfad96f7a054de2%26loc%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.truckingboards.com%252Fforum%252Fyrc-freight%252F82127-notice-critical-status-central-states-pension-fund.html%26v%3D1%26libid%3D1346259274903%26out%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fdl.dropbox.com%252Fu%252F42059564%252FTruckingboards%252FYRC%252F2011%252520Annual%252520Funding%252520Notice%252520For%252520CSPF.pdf%26ref%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.truckingboards.com%252Fforum%252Fyrc-freight%252F82127-notice-critical-status-central-states-pension-fund-2.html%26title%3DNotice%2520of%2520Critical%2520Status%2522%2520for%2520the%2520Central%2520States%2520Pension%2520Fund%26txt%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fdl.dropbox.com%252Fu%252F42059564%252FTru...For%252520CSPF.pdf%26jsonp%3Dvglnk_jsonp_13462592791633&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.truckingboards.com%2Fforum%2Fyrc-freight%2F82127-notice-critical-status-central-states-pension-fund-2.html&title=Notice%20of%20Critical%20Status%22%20for%20the%20Central%20States%20Pension%20Fund&txt=http%3A%2F%2Fdl.dropbox.com%2Fu%2F42059564%2FTru...For%2520CSPF.pdf&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13462592882115



So...do you not think that we can't see what you are all about?

Docker, I am about having a JOB! I am about putting food on my table for the six children I am currently raising in my house. I am about understanding and respecting the sacrafices of those that came before me in the union movement. I am about looking at the current situation my employer is in and trying to create a dialogue whereby we look at the facts of our the situation and make the best decision for everyone involved.

Everyone is; ABF, its employees currently, those that have retired from ABF, those that have retired from other union companies and those that will someday draw a pension from CSPF.

Forcing ABF into a labor agreement that has them pay over $20,000 per employee will result in the most damage to all of the parties listed above in the long run.