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As of this posting, I have not yet received anything in writing on this....stay tuned....KK
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Docker
Guest
Ok...Thanks KK...just called IBT and they said they sent word to the locals yesterday.
With all due respect Muler, If you think the broke government, and a totally stressed pension fund is your idea of retirement security, you might want to consider coming on back from Disney World. Personally, I'll take my money and scratch my head. I watched 23.5 years get chopped almost in half. Government said it had to be done! They didn't protect squat. If I drop dead, my wife will get ZERO! NO SURVIVOR BENEFIT! ZILCH! 23.5 solid years paid in by Yellow Freight! Now, just say, they gave you an option to invest more money into the Central States Pension Fund, (they probably would take anything you sent them by the way), above what your employer is required to pay, and they made some promise it would likely increase your pension, but you had no control how it was invested, would you send them MORE money? No....It's a bad place to invest money! So why do so many want to make the company send them more! If ABF can work a deal, to buy me out, and give me a decent 401K to work with, I think I can certainly do as well with it as the government and central states has! If you just leave it in the money market inside the 401k and don't even invest it, you will at least have your principal! Don't get too fancy and just invest in some good growth stock mutual funds with a long track record of beating the market, and you WILL grow your 401k! If ABF will agree to do a match as they prosper, every dollar you put in is two dollars, up to 6% of your pay...YOUR ACCOUNT, will grow quickly! And no ones going to take it from you, if you leave the company, it goes with you. If the market goes down, oh well, guess what, Central States takes a hit too! And they start whining about how bad the market was and how much they lost, therefore, they are going to have to reduce benefits, they can and they WILL do it, cause the government says they have to! But when the market is down, I just keep investing, I'm buying in low, then when it comes back I have more working for me. When Central States cuts your benefit, your never getting a letter saying, you know the market came back, so we're gonna adjust your check back up. IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN! I wish that 30 and out pension at age 57 with full benefits, health insurance for you and your spouse that existed back when I started this stuff 25 yrs. ago was still a realistic dream! But, with the demise of CF, it's a different world now, and it's not ABF's fault. If ABF cannot get some relief from this INSANE scenario, and they go under down the road, and you think a 30 yr. pensioner is going to get more than a few hundred bucks from the defunct plan, (the GOVERNMENT will determine your share, and we all know how generous they are) you my friend are in DENIAL! Be safe out there!
With all due respect Muler, If you think the broke government, and a totally stressed pension fund is your idea of retirement security, you might want to consider coming on back from Disney World. Personally, I'll take my money and scratch my head. I watched 23.5 years get
Oh, have no fear my brother, the GOVERNMENT is very generous! They will take excellent care of us!
Sure, I'm along for the ride, and if we get a chance to vote on something, I'll vote my conscience and you can vote yours. As far as the facts go, I experienced the facts, and it can happen at ABF! And by the way, ABF vetted me and hired me, and I pay my dues to the local every month. I know you are probably a great hard working guy, and wish ABF could sustain the CSPF, but I just don't think they can, I will probably vote to give them relief given the chance. It's not a YRC thing, I would have done the same thing over there, but YRC was broke, and coulnd't buy out, so they just quit paying, and our stuff got slashed, no matter how many companies are paying into the fund. I wish it wasn't so, but it is what it is.....A FREAKIN' MESS! Ya'll be safe!
Thank You for the respect comment. You have said many things in this post that are your words not mine.With all due respect Muler, If you think the broke government, and a totally stressed pension fund is your idea of retirement security, you might want to consider coming on back from Disney World. Personally, I'll take my money and scratch my head. I watched 23.5 years get chopped almost in half. Government said it had to be done! They didn't protect squat. If I drop dead, my wife will get ZERO! NO SURVIVOR BENEFIT! ZILCH! 23.5 solid years paid in by Yellow Freight! Now, just say, they gave you an option to invest more money into the Central States Pension Fund, (they probably would take anything you sent them by the way), above what your employer is required to pay, and they made some promise it would likely increase your pension, but you had no control how it was invested, would you send them MORE money? No....It's a bad place to invest money! So why do so many want to make the company send them more! If ABF can work a deal, to buy me out, and give me a decent 401K to work with, I think I can certainly do as well with it as the government and central states has! If you just leave it in the money market inside the 401k and don't even invest it, you will at least have your principal! Don't get too fancy and just invest in some good growth stock mutual funds with a long track record of beating the market, and you WILL grow your 401k! If ABF will agree to do a match as they prosper, every dollar you put in is two dollars, up to 6% of your pay...YOUR ACCOUNT, will grow quickly! And no ones going to take it from you, if you leave the company, it goes with you. If the market goes down, oh well, guess what, Central States takes a hit too! And they start whining about how bad the market was and how much they lost, therefore, they are going to have to reduce benefits, they can and they WILL do it, cause the government says they have to! But when the market is down, I just keep investing, I'm buying in low, then when it comes back I have more working for me. When Central States cuts your benefit, your never getting a letter saying, you know the market came back, so we're gonna adjust your check back up. IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN! I wish that 30 and out pension at age 57 with full benefits, health insurance for you and your spouse that existed back when I started this stuff 25 yrs. ago was still a realistic dream! But, with the demise of CF, it's a different world now, and it's not ABF's fault. If ABF cannot get some relief from this INSANE scenario, and they go under down the road, and you think a 30 yr. pensioner is going to get more than a few hundred bucks from the defunct plan, (the GOVERNMENT will determine your share, and we all know how generous they are) you my friend are in DENIAL! Be safe out there!
First off I never told anyone that I trust the government or CSPF for my retirement. I have and will continue to explore all options WITH THE FACTS NOT BECAUSE I THINK I AM SMARTER THAN OTHERS!
You in prior post talk of ABF being the only one paying into CSPF and I know that hundreds of companies if not thousands pay into CSPF. So you were WRONG THERE!
In this very post you said if you drop dead right now that your wife would get nothing. Again you are WRONG! She would get your LIFE INSURANCE PAYMENT that by being a member of CSPF entitles her to collect or whomever you made your beneficiary She would also be entitled to five years of your pension payments.
And as far as sending more money to CSPF I have been doing that for over 33 years in the form of less hourly pay for a better pension return.
Now on the subject of just how your pension got cut. You are not going to like this but it is to a point just as much your fault as anyone Else's.
You see I have not seen anywhere on this site or the other sites where you championed the Brothers at yrc to DEMAND TO SEE THE BOOKS BEFORE EVER VOTING ON THE FIRST THRU THIRD MOU!
You can go back and read where way back then I was warning Brothers of the possible repercussions to their pensions.
You never once went to your courthouse and filed a LAWSUIT against yrc and the CSPF then because of your filing you would have been entitled to file a motion for discovery did you? You see if it is beneficial to your case you are entitled to all that information.
You voted for or did not do enough to get yrc to produce their books.
Now if you could not do these few simple things to just see if yrc was telling the truth how could you feel comfortable investing your retirement savings? I'm just asking with all DUE RESPECT!
After all I posted information upon information when it came to the ABF VOTE! Because my retirement and that of my lovely brides depended on it.
Did you not read where the COO was passed?
You have not said one word of all the money ABF will be GETTING FROM IT! That's right Road Drivers average about $35.00 an hour when driving. Now this work will be given to the UE drivers and they make $25.00 an hour in my truck driver math book that comes to about $10.00 an hour savings for ABF not bad is it?
How much will that off set pension payments. But you don't talk of that because it only affects Road Drivers.
Now to be a little judgmental about you. Ever since you started posting as a ABFer all I see is I & ME you never speak about a Brotherhood or your ABF Brothers you talk about you and I and what can be done for me.
WITH ALL DUE RESPECT! That is how your post look to me. Now for something you may not be accustomed to hearing. You are my Brother ACT LIKE IT! WE are in this together because without us there will be NO YOU! YOUR BROTHER ALWAYS!
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ABF Employees can log onto ABFatWork.com website, click on InfoRountable, message board, drill down to: General Comments Questions posted yesterday. I will not quote it here for copyright reasons, since it is yet an internal memo, but all ABF employees will be able to access it.
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Deleted member 5115
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In multi-employer pension funds I believe that the maximum monthly pension payment would be $1017 per month in the event of a government takeover. If I find the link I once found and read I will post it.
Well, the letter I got from Central States says she will get no pension, the $40,000 life insurance, yes, but that is not pension. Do I need to post a copy of it? Perhaps you can get a lawyer to contest it for me! Until I get 12 months paid in from ABF, I am under the YRC Mod plan, no survivor benefits. As far as the books go, our UNION informed us that the company would close without the concessions, so I voted my conscience. HOFFA went toe to toe with WALL STREET, when Goldman Sachs starting writing insurance on YRCW's Bonds, cause they were BROKE, and the financials posted with the SEC, showed they were BROKE, on the verge of COLLAPSE! Hate Hoffa if you want , but he put the crosshairs on himself with that move, and I respected him for that. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=apCmuH.AP.VA I appreciate your considering me a Brother, and I'm sorry if it appeared I was putting words in your mouth, we just have a different opinion on retirement issues and strategy. My prayer is we can get some reasonable options to look at, that can benefit the membership and the company. You say you have given up more money for the company to invest in the Fund, but the Fund keeps reducing what we will get and when we can get it! That is not a good investment in my book. If I take care of ME, I might just be able to help YOU! If ABF can stay solvent and competitive, we'll get a fair shake at the negotiating table. One thing I've noticed over here, there is still a lot of pride for the most part in this outfit. The reason, THEY AIN'T BROKE YET! But if they are forced to carry the water for every other broke company, they will be! All these other pension funds you speak of, they are distressed, too! In a pension buyout, there would be a haircut, no doubt, and it would require some discipline! You could then take out a loan against your retirement savings, which I would not recommend, and any raises in the future, you would need to adjust your contributions and not bring that money home and blow it, etc., but I prefer that strategy. Ya'll be safe!
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Docker
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I'll ask you once again Turncoat...What are you actually saying to the guys and gals that have less than 20 yrs? Are you saying that it's just all about what's best for you?
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Docker
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You say that you worked for YRC...voted for the pension withdraw then left YRC to come to work for ABF and now...here you come with all this talk about us ABFers and all our pension woes. How did you get that name turncoat again?
nothumbleenough
TB Lurker
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I don't recall a vote by membership to pull out of the pension. When did this take place?At YRCW?
Yeah you are goi8ng to be the thermal managers favorite I can see that. Hoffa toe to toe what a joke.
I can see you don't need any information you know it all. For your information it was Goldman Sachs that was in control of CSPF when your hero said he was gong TOE TO TOE WITH THEM!
I will ask the Fort to save on ink and just have a YES ballot printed for you. But that is OK because we have many Brothers that make informed decisions not scared decisions.
You got what you wanted at yrc now you come to our house bringing your same old baggage. But you are but one. I would like to see you post that letter. WITH ALL DUE RESPECT! YOUR *******ALWAYS!
Read the MOU's they spell it out. You don't remember the last MOU and the 25% of the 2004 rate if the funds would accept it. You don't remember the first to defer out. And then the funds threw them out. Same thing everyone should have read the funds rules if a company went into default. Docker is right a yes vote to deferr was a vote of leave the fund after all it is the rules. They can be found on the CSPF website. YOUR BROTHER ALWAYS!
nothumbleenough
TB Lurker
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Respectfully, the deferment on the pension was not a vote to pull out. I get how you can logically conclude that their contributions would forever stop once given the deferment considering their (YRCW) history. They are making partial payments today, so basically if I were a YRCW employee whose money was going into the fund today, I would consider myself a contributer. (Central States, not Western States) By the way, using that same logic, (Yes vote to deferment essentially a withdrawl) not repairing the pension and the funding requirement on ABF will but them out of business before the next contract concludes.
Muler, do you think it is logical and likely that ABF will be able to compete as the LTL industry is currently contructed paying what they are currently paying into the pension. Not to mention the higher rate that will be required considering the increased contributions mandated by the multiemployer pension?
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Docker
Guest
It seems that our brother Turncoat voted for the pension cuts when he was over at YRC...then jumped ship leaving his brothers over there holding the bag and living with it while he came over here at ABF to try and reclaim his.Now I see why they call him a turncoat...it makes perfect sense now.Now...on top of this..he rants and raves on how he wants to vote to trash our pension benefits too.This guy is a MEASTER...plain and simple!!!!
bigtruk_us
TB Legend
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See what kind of mess and confusion our freight director has made for you at ABF.I'm a yrc guy and its a gigantic hole to dig out of.whenever they conceded over here at yrc.that opened the flood gates.its gotten out of hand...I'm sorry.I didn't vote yes for anything over here at yrc.I realized in the beginning what was going to happen.
Also when we had a meeting about the first paycut at our hall.I often wondered why they didn't allow abf members to stay and listen.maybe they didn't want any support from our abf members.it was strange.to say the least
Also when we had a meeting about the first paycut at our hall.I often wondered why they didn't allow abf members to stay and listen.maybe they didn't want any support from our abf members.it was strange.to say the least
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Docker
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ABF will go into the contact talks with their best plan as will the IBT and they will hash it out. ABF looks out for the company and the IBT looking out for it's members and coming up with the best solution for all involved...like it has always been. When the IBT and ABF come up with the contract then we can decide on how to vote.ABF has always had very smart management and they will not agree to something they know won't work out for them and the IBT will not demand more than they can afford to survive. IMO...you don't need to be telling the company what you are willing to give up before the contract talks even begin...that doesn't make no sense at all.
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Deleted member 5115
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I agree with you except for the line I bolded. I have no faith in the IBT being able to determine what ABF can afford.