TForce | The last thing you would want to hear....

[Crumudgeon]

"We are miles apart". 31 days until a possibly life changing moment in your career, and the highlight of the national conference call was "we got a/c for the jockey trucks". I would be embarrassed to say the least. I was hoping for a little better news for all the Brothers and Sisters who depend on their job for a comfortable life. The stench of 17+ years of UPS will be hard to wash away, but I'm afraid it will be painful to some. TFI is purely profit driven and intends to stay that way, it has been many years since any of us/you have been in that situation. UPS had deep pockets and threw money at Freight so it appeared they hadn't failed miserably at an LTL venture. TFI knows how to operate an LTL and they WILL make their margins with or without T-Force Freight. IMHO they don't care whether they get an agreement or not, they have a plan, it either continues under their vision or it fades into history, they will profit. The lesson learned from our/your last contract is straight out of psychology 101, "any action that brings about the desired result will be repeated". The potential closing 5 yrs. ago changed Union negotiations in a profound way. They saw the fear and capitulation of losing a decent job on the faces of employees and it stuck.

 

[Crumudgeon]

The simple fact of 31 days away they have NOTHING to report is disturbing. I was told months ago that the Union was aware of the fact that TFI informed them that healthcare costs and contractors were non-negotiable in their business model.
There are several scenarios that could, IMHO play out and not all are rosy.
There could be a good proposal, with a modest raise and continuation of our stellar healthcare and modest pension.
There will be a proposal that isn't very good, it will guarantee a job, but will not result in a net gain by employees. As freight winds down in anticipation of a strike and people not working, they will gamble it will pass.
There is a strike, worst case scenario, feelings will be hurt on all sides. How soon till the ones facing financial disaster will cross the line? The Company knows the Union is weak and even if the Company folds, they still make huge profits just in real estate and the like.
There might be another outcome and I hope there is, but profits before people never really favors the workin' man.

A wise old driver once said, he was disappointed that when he left UPGF it was in a worse state then when he joined it, I agree, it is sad.
No matter what happens be safe, be careful, prayers with you all.........

 

[maxicoze]

If it's true that jockey trucks now will have A/C then i have mixed feelings: Good in that, i've done jockey work at other companies and yes it can and will get HOT in there mainly because you're sitting on top of the engine. It IS a step in the right direction.

Bad in that this is not that significant (to me at least) in the big picture. Spec'ing the jockey with better heat shielding insulation and really a decent fan can do a lot.
My terminal, and many others, don't have a full-time jockey anyways so there's really minimal benefit to this new "win."

Also, remember that Grumpyburg, Newburg, and chicago----all the big hubs will in a matter of about 5 months will have really cold weather and the matter of A/C will be irrelevant. And really it only affects larger hubs because those jockeys are in the trucks for a meaningful amount of time. So, this further illustrates that is is a small "win."

i do, however, have some big insider news. i think it's best to let it play out naturally and let the news come out officially, so i think i wil stay silent on the matter.

But the news is BIG and GREEN. Oops.

 

[Steward of the Rock]

i do, however, have some big insider news. i think it's best to let it play out naturally and let the news come out officially, so i think i wil stay silent on the matter.

But the news is BIG and GREEN. Oops.

So, they are going to allow “simping“ in the new contract???

 

[Streaker69]

So, they are going to allow “simping“ in the new contract???

There's now a feature that allows customers to tip their driver digitally.... Allegedly

 

[Crumudgeon]

If it's true that jockey trucks now will have A/C then i have mixed feelings: Good in that, i've done jockey work at other companies and yes it can and will get HOT in there mainly because you're sitting on top of the engine. It IS a step in the right direction.

Bad in that this is not that significant (to me at least) in the big picture. Spec'ing the jockey with better heat shielding insulation and really a decent fan can do a lot.
My terminal, and many others, don't have a full-time jockey anyways so there's really minimal benefit to this new "win."

Also, remember that Grumpyburg, Newburg, and chicago----all the big hubs will in a matter of about 5 months will have really cold weather and the matter of A/C will be irrelevant. And really it only affects larger hubs because those jockeys are in the trucks for a meaningful amount of time. So, this further illustrates that is is a small "win."

i do, however, have some big insider news. i think it's best to let it play out naturally and let the news come out officially, so i think i wil stay silent on the matter.

But the news is BIG and GREEN. Oops.

I certainly think a/c in a jockey horse is a win, those things are brutal hot. But if it is the highlight of your negotiations at this late date it is pretty sad.
Big and green is pure speculation at this point. Some details of the ABF agreement might seem to lean a little that way, but to have TFI match the other economic issues, pension, PTO, are far superior to TFI.
Never say never....

 

[omegaman]

4 weeks is plenty and next week is huge because it make no sense for TFI to go down to the wire unless they want to test if we really will walk.....not good, that's trying to break us .......I truly believe TFI wants to own us and ABF to run a LTL and continue to sell property off. I think that is their vision for the USA. It pays for the union package while they pare down the employees under the previous contracts, sell and rent real estate. Unfortunately I feel most of the damage done will come from the TForce side. I think that they realized the enormous financial outlay to fix TForce organically and like the ABF operation better. TFI is a holding company solely in it for profit while leaving the management intact to run the acquired company and report to them. That aspect from UPSF has to appear to be a total failure. Overnite not only had alot of paid for terminals but the old man brought the acres to go with it. Plenty cash to be made. My terminal is surrounded by land all paid for that can be sold and developed. As always JMHO.....

 

[Crumudgeon]

4 weeks is plenty and next week is huge because it make no sense for TFI to go down to the wire unless they want to test if we really will walk.....not good, that's trying to break us .......I truly believe TFI wants to combine us and ABF to run a LTL and continue to sell property off. I think that is their vision for the USA. It pays for the union package while they pare down the employees under the previous contracts, sell and rent real estate. Unfortunately I feel most of the damage done will come from the TForce side. I think that they realized the enormous financial outlay to fix TForce organically and like the ABF operation better. Overnite not only had alot of paid for terminals but the old man brought the acres to go with it. Plenty cash to be made. My terminal is surrounded by land that can be sold and developed. As always JMHO.....

Agreed.
Their main bone of contention is a workforce full of drivers not wanting to work to their full potential.
Many take advantage of the FridayMondayLeaveAct, many turn down runs they have time to do, this is the poisonous residue left by UPS.
I agree the ABF system would be a turn-key asset as it seems to work well and is already in place.
Mr. Cochrane was a shrewd businessman, sad his vision has come to this.. Almost 90 yrs.

 

[T Force Driver]

TFI is a holding company solely in it for profit while leaving the management intact to run the acquired company and report to them.

That aspect from UPSF has to appear to be a total failure.

UPS Freight was run exactly as UPS planned. As window dressing to lure FedEx customers. Carole Tome is quoted as saying
“ UPS freight is the loss leader for UPS package.”

Tome also said as a board member “we don’t need to OWN a freight company to ship our package customer’s freight shipments.”

As soon as Tome became CEO she cut loose the UPS freight division!

UPF freight was run giving 90% discounts to shippers if they switched their accounts from FedEx to UPS!! You can’t build a top LTL giving near free rates!

Until you understand why ups freight was created you’ll never get it!!

 

[Crumudgeon]

UPS Freight was run exactly as UPS planned. As window dressing to lure FedEx customers. Carole Tome is quoted as saying
“ UPS freight is the loss leader for UPS package.”

Tome also said as a board member “we don’t need to OWN a freight company to ship our package customer’s freight shipments.”

As soon as Tome became CEO she cut loose the UPS freight division!

UPF freight was run giving 90% discounts to shippers if they switched their accounts from FedEx to UPS!! You can’t build a top LTL giving near free rates!

Until you understand why ups freight was created you’ll never get it!!

You are correct.
Lest we not forget the deal with the Union giving UPS control of the pension in exchange for no opposition to unionizing the freight division. That alone was worth many millions....

 

[Walleye]

If we don't care a good contract let them close the doors,.....All of us with experience and a class a cdl will be fine,

Everyone of us was looking for a job when we got this one.

 

[maxicoze]

I certainly think a/c in a jockey horse is a win, those things are brutal hot. But if it is the highlight of your negotiations at this late date it is pretty sad.
Big and green is pure speculation at this point. Some details of the ABF agreement might seem to lean a little that way, but to have TFI match the other economic issues, pension, PTO, are far superior to TFI.
Never say never....

You got it.

Not speculation. Trust me.

But don't tell anyone.

 

[omegaman]

Oh I get it TFORCE DRIVER……I came from package car before I upgraded to driving tractors so I understand the UPS mentality.

1) UPS brought Overnite only to add a SERVICE……LTL.
UPSF was never considered more than that. Just like you add a SERVICE you can delete it . This is why UPSF was NEVER mixed with or allowed to sniff the package operation while only spending money on it to provide the SERVICE.
2) This SERVICE was needed to put the UPS sales team on equal footing with the FEDEX sales force which was getting and poaching customers using the “ we can take everything you need to ship” pitch having a LTL.
3) UPS NEVER cared or even thought about the LTL business other than to be able to offer the same SERVICES as FEDEX. YES they did use UPSF at a price giveaway to get customers packages and once the rubber met the road and it was time to invest money into UPSF it was time to sack the SERVICE…..

I chuckle to myself when I would hear lifelong LTL people talking about UPS should do this or that to get more LTL customers and bigger.
It was never their intention to do anything in LTL.
Drivers only realized all this after we got sacked.

 

[omegaman]

You are correct.
Lest we not forget the deal with the Union giving UPS control of the pension in exchange for no opposition to unionizing the freight division. That alone was worth many millions....

Yup which is why the Teamsters always let UPS have their way with us contract time.....they never forgave Overnite for the publicity of never voting in the union. They stayed butt sore over that......never fought one time.

 

[inspector200]

If we don't care a good contract let them close the doors,.....All of us with experience and a class a cdl will be fine,

Everyone of us was looking for a job when we got this one.

I’m riding this place to the bottom, like the titan submersible!

 

[Crumudgeon]

Yup which is why the Teamsters always let UPS have their way with us contract time.....they never forgave Overnite for the publicity of never voting in the union. They stayed butt sore over that......never fought one time.

One of Mr. Cochranes prized possessions was a check from the Teamsters signed by Hoffa Sr.
It was a tough time for some...

 

[No port]

There is so much bravado and posturing it is just ridiculous. That call on Friday told me nothing worthwhile, because they can't, they have a non disclosure agreement. Those tidbits were agreed too talking points.I have had better info from rumors.
Ups is gone, overnite is gone, they don't matter.
TfI and the teamsters will come to an agreement and it will pass on the first vote . No sane employee wants a repeat of 2018. As long as there are no concessions, my terminal will be an 85% yes minimum.

 

[No port]

If we don't care a good contract let them close the doors,.....All of us with experience and a class a cdl will be fine,

Everyone of us was looking for a job when we got this one.

So much tough talk but reality always wins . Guys aren't going to throw away a good job because they didn't get what you wanted.

 

[FreightDriver]

There is so much bravado and posturing it is just ridiculous. That call on Friday told me nothing worthwhile. I have had better info from rumors.
Ups is gone, overnite is gone, they don't matter.
TfI and the teamsters will come to an agreement and it will pass on the first vote . No sane employee wants a repeat of 2018. As long as there are no concessions, my terminal will be an 85% yes minimum.

Where is your terminal?

 

[FreightDriver]

"We are miles apart". 31 days until a possibly life changing moment in your career, and the highlight of the national conference call was "we got a/c for the jockey trucks". I would be embarrassed to say the least. I was hoping for a little better news for all the Brothers and Sisters who depend on their job for a comfortable life. The stench of 17+ years of UPS will be hard to wash away, but I'm afraid it will be painful to some. TFI is purely profit driven and intends to stay that way, it has been many years since any of us/you have been in that situation. UPS had deep pockets and threw money at Freight so it appeared they hadn't failed miserably at an LTL venture. TFI knows how to operate an LTL and they WILL make their margins with or without T-Force Freight. IMHO they don't care whether they get an agreement or not, they have a plan, it either continues under their vision or it fades into history, they will profit. The lesson learned from our/your last contract is straight out of psychology 101, "any action that brings about the desired result will be repeated". The potential closing 5 yrs. ago changed Union negotiations in a profound way. They saw the fear and capitulation of losing a decent job on the faces of employees and it stuck.

Yeah, that conference call was a complete joke. They literally had next to nothing to report other than some minor wins. I guess they had to throw something in there in order to not look like complete fools. You could tell at the speed with which Taylor read that prepared statement that he couldn’t wait to get off the call. I would have too given what little has been accomplished. Just pathetic! They’ll likely push out their tentative agreement one to two weeks before the current contract expires. Bedard should just buy ABF already and merge it with TForce Freight and avoid this cluster f**k!