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radman said:
You see, you just questioned my love for this country in ONE post. Whats up with that? Just because someone has a different idea of what they think America should be does not mean that they do not love her anyless or anymore than you do.
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I am not questioning your love of country, I'm trying to figure out why you cannot love it without condition. If you could make one major change to our system of government, what would it be?
 
RustyNail said:
Could change...State legislators in California are introducing a measure today that would call for a constitutional amendment overturning Citizens United, the controversial Supreme Court ruling that endowed corporations with the same First Amendment rights as U.S. citizens and characterizes political spending as free speech, opening the floodgates for unlimited corporate spending on election campaigns. The New York City Council is expected to vote on a similar measure today, following passage in cities including Los Angeles, Oakland, Albany and Boulder. On Friday, Montana’s Supreme Court restored a 100-year-old ban on corporate spending directed at political campaigns or candidates.
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Might change, might not.....let's let the country have the argument and we'll see who wins. Are you willing to abide with the final decision?
 
RustyNail said:
What we have seen, then, since the 1970s, is a relentless collaborative effort on the part of political and business elites to redistribute more and more wealth to the top. The top 400 Americans now have more wealth than the bottom 155 million. The top 1% make over 20% of the income and control almost 40% of the wealth, numbers not seen since the 1920s. We live in a society in which billionaires who manage hedge-funds are paying lower taxes than firefighters. Something has gone profoundly wrong.
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That's a serious charge, you got any proof, charts, tables....anything besides rhetoric? Do you have a problem with private sector wealth creation?
 
nncnwydude said:
It's not a change of interpretation when our government completely ignores the 10th amendment. It's not a change of interpretation when the government oversteps the enumerated powers and sticks its nose into every single part of my life. It's not a change of interpretation when our president tells the top 10% of wage earners that are paying over 75% of the taxes already that they aren't "paying their fair share" and 50% of our population pays nothing. It's not "cool" to me when the federal government is daily doing everything within and outside it's own power to derail this great nation, all in the name of making it "fair" for everyone. The government can't pick winners and losers in life. In a free market economy not everyone is going to be wealthy. But I can guarantee you that there's no other economic system in this world that allows more opportunity for success as ours. Why should I stand aside and allow the government to take from me or someone else who has worked hard to earn their living and give to somoene who doesn't have as much as me when all they do is sit on their dead ass all day doing nothing?!?! What's FAIR about that? Social progressives have brought about a fair measure of change socially that is good. I agree with that. But what is "progressive" about a huge beurocracy that is so top heavy that nothing ever gets done? When there are 3 government workers doing 1 government job? The problem is not the person running the machine, the problem is that the machine is TOO BIG!!!
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Excellent Post, I would add to that the following.....That in a free market economy, besides not everyone being wealthy, some people will be poor, some people will not receive adequate medical care, some people will lose their homes, and some businesses will fail. It is what it is, it's our system and it's proven over time that it's better so far than anything anyone else has come up with so far. I couldn't agree more with that statement. Liberals use the word "fair" because it makes sounds nice and of course no one wants to appear as being unfair, right? But if we take a look at what American liberals want for the country, we get something that resembles the top down European socialist government models that we are watching fail before our very eyes. In the future, when we hear a liberal say "fair" what they really mean is equally distributed mediocrity paid for with money confiscated from those who work hard to better their lives, from the uber wealthy right down to you and me, joe taxpayer.Great post, thanks for the inspiration.
 
radman said:
A literal interpretation of the Constitution IS NOT acceptable and I don't think that the founding fathers intended it to be so. America is not the same country that it was when the Constitution was written.Times change and how we interpret the Constitution must change as well. I know you don't agree with that and thats COOL.Your entitled to your beliefs just as I am and we can agree to disagree like sensible people.

As far as being a progressive or not, I said that "I like to think that I am" but I don't think thats always the case. I am probably more of a Libertartian with a very STRONG liberal bias. That does not matter though, what does matter is that if it were not for the Progressives of the late 19th and early 20th centuries, women would still not have the vote and my 8 year old would be allowed to work in a textile factory.
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It's troubling for me to hear such things. The Constitution is the supreme rule book that our government operates by and you cannot go with a "literal interpration" of it? Rules are what make our society a civil place to live. We have rules that govern nearly every aspect of lives, right down to how sports are played. I think what I find most amazing is how strongly a crowd reacts to a bad call by an official in a football game, but yet when our elected officials want to play games with the Constitution and it's implementation, many people just stay mute while others, like you, welcome the government to play outside of the rules. What can I say to a person like you who seems to have little or no grounding as to what is right and wrong. A person who believes in nothing can be lead to believe anything.
 
Commenting on when this change with the mentality of the American workforce and who to blame.
We will have to refer back in political history.I would say this political ideaology changed.when we knew that voting for a democrat.meant we were voting for someone who stood for the average American laborer.a political leader that wrapped himself or herself in the American dream.
Today these politicians look like they are legislating for another planet.also the onslaught of PAC and other groups that sway our politicians votes on different laws.we are outnumbered.plus we don't have the money to pay for these politicians votes.
I feel that its not the government by the people for the people anymore.its for itself.how much money can I pocket off these PAC and other groups.despite my constituents.afterall,all I needed was their vote.all these aforementioned actions.have torn away at the American fabric.somethings gotta give.so far all of us have gave.nothing in return.
 
ldgarrit said:
It's troubling for me to hear such things. The Constitution is the supreme rule book that our government operates by and you cannot go with a "literal interpration" of it? Rules are what make our society a civil place to live. We have rules that govern nearly every aspect of lives, right down to how sports are played. I think what I find most amazing is how strongly a crowd reacts to a bad call by an official in a football game, but yet when our elected officials want to play games with the Constitution and it's implementation, many people just stay mute while others, like you, welcome the government to play outside of the rules. What can I say to a person like you who seems to have little or no grounding as to what is right and wrong. A person who believes in nothing can be lead to believe anything.
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The supreme court isn't the last word, because a constitutional admendment can overrule them. But that is very hard to do these day's. Citizan's United decsion was a terible decision, they overruled serveral court of appeals and I think it was a 5-4 decision. the last part of your post I disagree with somewhat, because people that believe in everything they hear from certain sources, can be lead like cattle to the slaughter house. That worries me as much as all these people voting that don't have a clue what's going on, except for what's happening to snokie or Kate + 8. american idol...............Thought you said supreme court and noticed you didn't after I wrote this.
 
ldgarrit said:
Excellent Post, I would add to that the following.....That in a free market economy, besides not everyone being wealthy, some people will be poor, some people will not receive adequate medical care, some people will lose their homes, and some businesses will fail. It is what it is, it's our system and it's proven over time that it's better so far than anything anyone else has come up with so far. I couldn't agree more with that statement. Liberals use the word "fair" because it makes sounds nice and of course no one wants to appear as being unfair, right? But if we take a look at what American liberals want for the country, we get something that resembles the top down European socialist government models that we are watching fail before our very eyes. In the future, when we hear a liberal say "fair" what they really mean is equally distributed mediocrity paid for with money confiscated from those who work hard to better their lives, from the uber wealthy right down to you and me, joe taxpayer.Great post, thanks for the inspiration.
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No prob ldgarrit, it's how I feel, and moreover, it's RIGHT. You can't break the argument. You hit the nail on the head with your reply, most liberals have their heart in the right place. What they don't take into account is the people who take advantage of the system and are lazy, and they also do not take into consideration the corruption that comes from central control. If we continue down the path we're on, we'll be in Greece's shoes before long. The only way to avoid it is to change the course and not just put new people in chagrge of the machine, we need to shrink the machine A LOT!
 
ldgarrit said:
It's troubling for me to hear such things. The Constitution is the supreme rule book that our government operates by and you cannot go with a "literal interpration" of it? Rules are what make our society a civil place to live. We have rules that govern nearly every aspect of lives, right down to how sports are played. I think what I find most amazing is how strongly a crowd reacts to a bad call by an official in a football game, but yet when our elected officials want to play games with the Constitution and it's implementation, many people just stay mute while others, like you, welcome the government to play outside of the rules. What can I say to a person like you who seems to have little or no grounding as to what is right and wrong. A person who believes in nothing can be lead to believe anything.
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I believe that we cannot as a country literally interpret the Constitution. Times change, people change, cultures change. Our interpretation of what the Constitution says will change as well. The America we live in today would be unrecognizable to the people who founded it. Our founding fathers were very wise, they created a system of government that was capable of changing with the times and the Constitution is the blue print for that change.The type of change will be determined by who wins elections.
 
I think we should just read the Old Testament, and live by it. Literally, word for word. Just because the times change doesn't mean we should adjust things right?....:coffee1: PS, we would probabley better off...then again maybe not..I enjoyed philosophy class
 
radman said:
I believe that we cannot as a country literally interpret the Constitution. Times change, people change, cultures change. Our interpretation of what the Constitution says will change as well. The America we live in today would be unrecognizable to the people who founded it. Our founding fathers were very wise, they created a system of government that was capable of changing with the times and the Constitution is the blue print for that change.The type of change will be determined by who wins elections.
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Amendment 10 - Powers of the States and People. Ratified 12/15/1791
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

What's to be "interpreted" about that? And why does our government seem to completely forget this is in the Constitution?
 
nncnwydude said:
Amendment 10 - Powers of the States and People. Ratified 12/15/1791
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

What's to be "interpreted" about that? And why does our government seem to completely forget this is in the Constitution?
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In what ways does the Federal government infringe on the rights of the states?
 
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