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ABF | What the non union carriers think of us at ABF.

Docker said:
Yes...it does Wolf...Hostess was a prime example of that.
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Even here at YRC they were handing out fat contracts to the idiots that run her under and buying Chinese companies, Money to Golfers to wear a small Monogram.....we could go on and on. :nutkick:
 
Razorbacks said:
The facts are facts, and the numbers don't lie. Conway (along with the other nons) are rapidly growing, and we are barely treading water. I want to retire at ABF but unless something changes, I don't see it happening.
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what do you think we should do?
 
nothumbleenough said:
Are you really interested in his response, or are you looking for him to put down some idea so you can criticize it? How about offering up some solutions yourself other than not cutting your pension!
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Funny you posted this. You have not given one solution to any problem yet. All you have done is CRY THE SKY IS FALLING. Why don't you go to Conway if you like their business model so much? It is not as though you have any seniority here at ABF. I'm just saying.
 
nothumbleenough said:
Competition. That is why they did the $90 skid. Your narrative made it out as a bad move. It was simply the strong killing the weak, which is the nature of competetion. Considering the relative strength of the company since the move, I question you lack of expertise in running an efficient LTL operation. You may well be an excellent driver/doc worker, but you do not understand the numbers of a profitable company. :biglaugh:
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Well then I stand on my statement about him. yrc is still around and his company lost MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS! And as for understanding fiances. I am not the one sweating a possible wage war you are remember. And another thing the market cap you posted was a cap for ABF not ABC so again you were very misleading in your post. I was not surprised. So why don't you post the worth of ABC because that is what Conway is to all their subsidiaries the parent company. Look the sky is still above us. YOUR WATCHING YOU BROTHER ALWAYS!
 
Razorbacks said:
Docker - I don't like hearing of the giant bonuses either, and I also have not enjoyed the financial prosperty of the upper echelon. I am not as concerned about the top tier players as I am with the rest of us 99.9%. The financial results are everywhere, so I dont know what you want me to produce. Our operating ratios are the worst in the industry and with the YRC concessions, they will continue to lag behind. I hate it as much as anybody, but that is just the simple truth. I don't think the company is trying to screw anybody...they are attempting to ensure the company's longevity. It's no longer ABF vs the Union. It's ABF vs survival, and we have to be on the same page.
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What do you see as the answer? And I beg to differ about operating ratios being the worst. That would be a very broad statement to stand on.
But I am interested in hearing your plan to pull ABF through this period. Now remember when you speak of being the highest paid being a problem you must post how low you think we should go. Lower than yrc or lower than Central Transport?
How much vacation should we give back one week or all of it? How about our pensions? You know the ones that ABF along with the IBT decided not to put the 65 cents an hour into nor did they have to pay the negotiated 8% increase due as of April of this year. That would be somewhere around 15 to 20 million this year alone that ABF would not have to pay just to CSPF. And that would knock off about $26.00 a month from a Teamsters pension in Central States a month.
I know how about ABF just takes away our lunch break because if we do as everybody suggest we will not have enough money to eat lunch so why not just keep working for the betterment of the company.
If paying your drivers a livable wage has become such a problem at ABF then we had better all be looking for another job. I hear ABF Teamsters should do this and that but it appears we are considered the DUMB IDIOTS to even have people talking to us about such a STUPID THING!
Here we have rich people asking us to take from our families and they will bonus and receive higher salaries all the while ours are doing without. I will tell you and anyone else that will listen THIS IS WRONG! But I will be waiting for your plan to get us to the top. YOUR BROTHER ALWAYS!
 
Papajohn - I am close to 40 years of age and thus, have many years prior to reaching retirement. I view the pension as I do social security...it will not be around in its current form when I am able to receive benefits. Since you asked, I will provide a few points to consider. 1) No changes in current wages. 2) A percentage increase for healthcare. ABF employees receive superior healthcare benefits at very low costs. 3) Pension contributions. This is not a popular topic but the entire pension plan is a nightmare and single largest problem within the ABF structure. I'm not sure the most appropriate way to address the problems, but it has to be modified. If not modified, contribution levels will not be able to stay the same. 4) Flexibility within ABF job classification. It just makes business sense to allow an employee to do multiple tasks rather than for two or three to complete one task.

Change isn't going to be easy and maybe it shouldn't, but it is necessary. There is simply no way around it. Our other option is to stand around and ignore the facts and watch the non-union companies grow significantly over the next 10 years while we go through these charades each and every year. This problem is not going away. I mentioned earlier that change shouldn't be easy. ABF has the ability to be the pioneers in the new age of the Union. You guys see what others think of ABF and YRC. They laugh at us while watching us struggle. We won't convince Old Dominion or Conway to ever organize under the current working contracts. The only way the non-union companies will ever consider organizing is if the Union companies are profitable. ABF has to again lead the industry to lead the charge! Nobody follows the guy in last place.
 
Razorbacks said:
Papajohn - I am close to 40 years of age and thus, have many years prior to reaching retirement. I view the pension as I do social security...it will not be around in its current form when I am able to receive benefits. Since you asked, I will provide a few points to consider. 1) No changes in current wages. 2) A percentage increase for healthcare. ABF employees receive superior healthcare benefits at very low costs. 3) Pension contributions. This is not a popular topic but the entire pension plan is a nightmare and single largest problem within the ABF structure. I'm not sure the most appropriate way to address the problems, but it has to be modified. If not modified, contribution levels will not be able to stay the same. 4) Flexibility within ABF job classification. It just makes business sense to allow an employee to do multiple tasks rather than for two or three to complete one task.

Change isn't going to be easy and maybe it shouldn't, but it is necessary. There is simply no way around it. Our other option is to stand around and ignore the facts and watch the non-union companies grow significantly over the next 10 years while we go through these charades each and every year. This problem is not going away. I mentioned earlier that change shouldn't be easy. ABF has the ability to be the pioneers in the new age of the Union. You guys see what others think of ABF and YRC. They laugh at us while watching us struggle. We won't convince Old Dominion or Conway to ever organize under the current working contracts. The only way the non-union companies will ever consider organizing is if the Union companies are profitable. ABF has to again lead the industry to lead the charge! Nobody follows the guy in last place.
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How low should the wages be reduced? And would all ABF AND ABC employee's being going down the same percentage?
 
Razorbacks said:
Papajohn - I am close to 40 years of age and thus, have many years prior to reaching retirement. I view the pension as I do social security...it will not be around in its current form when I am able to receive benefits. Since you asked, I will provide a few points to consider. 1) No changes in current wages. 2) A percentage increase for healthcare. ABF employees receive superior healthcare benefits at very low costs. 3) Pension contributions. This is not a popular topic but the entire pension plan is a nightmare and single largest problem within the ABF structure. I'm not sure the most appropriate way to address the problems, but it has to be modified. If not modified, contribution levels will not be able to stay the same. 4) Flexibility within ABF job classification. It just makes business sense to allow an employee to do multiple tasks rather than for two or three to complete one task.

Change isn't going to be easy and maybe it shouldn't, but it is necessary. There is simply no way around it. Our other option is to stand around and ignore the facts and watch the non-union companies grow significantly over the next 10 years while we go through these charades each and every year. This problem is not going away. I mentioned earlier that change shouldn't be easy. ABF has the ability to be the pioneers in the new age of the Union. You guys see what others think of ABF and YRC. They laugh at us while watching us struggle. We won't convince Old Dominion or Conway to ever organize under the current working contracts. The only way the non-union companies will ever consider organizing is if the Union companies are profitable. ABF has to again lead the industry to lead the charge! Nobody follows the guy in last place.
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On the subject of health care. We are already straddled with the highest cost to maintain our heath coverage as almost all the other companies. But how much more do you suggest we pay?
 
Muler said:
Well then I stand on my statement about him. yrc is still around and his company lost MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS! And as for understanding fiances. I am not the one sweating a possible wage war you are remember. And another thing the market cap you posted was a cap for ABF not ABC so again you were very misleading in your post. I was not surprised. So why don't you post the worth of ABC because that is what Conway is to all their subsidiaries the parent company. Look the sky is still above us. YOUR WATCHING YOU BROTHER ALWAYS!
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You're clearly showing your lack of knowledge of what a market capitalization is. You will have a tough time showing ABC's market capitalization because they don't have one. Anyway, stand by your statement. It is one of many from you trying to sound strong and knowledgeable when the evidence points otherwise. Back on the point about Conway and its tactic trying to put YRC out of business. This is the nature of the beast when it comes to competition. Every single company in the LTL market including YRC is trying to put ABF out of business to gain customers by using its obvious cost advantage.
 
nothumbleenough said:
You're clearly showing your lack of knowledge of what a market capitalization is. You will have a tough time showing ABC's market capitalization because they don't have one. Anyway, stand by your statement. It is one of many from you trying to sound strong and knowledgeable when the evidence points otherwise. Back on the point about Conway and its tactic trying to put YRC out of business. This is the nature of the beast when it comes to competition. Every single company in the LTL market including YRC is trying to put ABF out of business to gain customers by using its obvious cost advantage.
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Conway executives failed to put them out of business costing their company so much money they came and took drivers and dockworkers pay and pensions and 401k contributions to stay competitive. Those are facts just read the SEC filings from 2006 thru 2011. I guess we can't all be smart as you. But you fear a lapse in wages I don't. Now what do you say about Conway taking from their employees? Does that make their CEO the BEST? As for the market cap for ABC you just proved my point. You posted a 200 million dollar market cap for ABF but you can not post the full value of what ABC is worth because of their private ownership. Where con-way being the parent company post their entire worth. Do you now agree that ABC is worth much more than the 200 million market cap placed on ABF?
 
Lets see. How about one of those company's that pays less than ABF. HMMMM that's right yrc Freight. What was Vitrans OR this whole year? And that's right they both pay less than ABF. So how low should we go?
 
Muler - I don't believe a reduction in wages is even necessary. I said no changes to wages, not a reduction. Wages and annual raises should not be altered. As far as health care, this is a concern for the company and employees. If we become aligned with industry standards, then I can live with that. Flexibility is something that can easily be altered. If it saves the company money, then ABF grows and so does the workforce.
 
Razorbacks said:
Docker - A CEO's pay and bonus is an easy deflection; unfortunately, this is not a core issue facing ABF's financial situation. CEO's make susbstantial amounts of money, and we are wasting our time worrying about CEO and executive level compensation packages. Financial statements and operating ratios should be the topic of discussion...
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I beg to differ with you on the CEO pay. Money spent is money spent. Just the way I see it. So are you saying do as I say not as I do? That should be the next memo we get at home. At least it would be the truth.
 
nothumbleenough said:
Every single company in the LTL market including YRC is trying to put ABF out of business to gain customers by using its obvious cost advantage.
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This is true but remember ABF is not an innocent victim. ABF did their best to put YRC away as well. Bottom line there is too much capacity in the LTL market. A large carrier has to go down so the survivors can raise rates. Business is business.
 
Muler - I don't like hearing about CEO pay no more than you, but we read/see/hear about it everyday from every sector. I don't have anything positive to say about it either. I only concern myself with things in my control. We are a 2 billion dollar a year company, and CEO pay will reflect that. It is what it is...
 
Muler said:
Conway executives failed to put them out of business costing their company so much money they came and took drivers and dockworkers pay and pensions and 401k contributions to stay competitive. Those are facts just read the SEC filings from 2006 thru 2011. I guess we can't all be smart as you. But you fear a lapse in wages I don't. Now what do you say about Conway taking from their employees? Does that make their CEO the BEST? As for the market cap for ABC you just proved my point. You posted a 200 million dollar market cap for ABF but you can not post the full value of what ABC is worth because of their private ownership. Where con-way being the parent company post their entire worth. Do you now agree that ABC is worth much more than the 200 million market cap placed on ABF?
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Dance Brother, dance! The reason they took the drivers money from 401k and wages at Conway is because they could. There was no Union to enforce a contract. If that happens here at ABF as it did in the Conway-CF example, I will no longer work at ABF.

Conway is producing consistent profits in the LTL industry and the capital market supports its business plan by buying its equity which is called a stock certificate for roughly $27. That is not currently the case at ABF as our share price hovers around $8.

I cannot speculate as to the value of ABC considering I have no point of reference. But what is clear is they are starting to accumulate assets like Panther. Why do you this is happening?
 
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