What's new

ABF | Driver-facing Cameras

canaryinthemine said:
My Apologies........I too am proud of being in the Teamsters for 41 years......even through some very frustrating leadership times...

I’ve always understood that it’s about First Amendment and Worker’s Rights.....
Click to expand...
lots of the problems stem from lack of participation.. look at our monthly meetings.. crickets but if a grievance is filed, all of a sudden they turn into Super Teamsters
 
slipperysleuth said:
lots of the problems stem from lack of participation.. look at our monthly meetings.. crickets but if a grievance is filed, all of a sudden they turn into Super Teamsters
Click to expand...
Agreed. Our local, for the May meeting, had two....TWO!....rank and file members (I was one, and I’m a retiree). Good Lord, the Officers/Trustees outnumber the members at these things most times, which is very sad. And, of course, I NEVER see my former ‘shop steward’ there. God forbid he attend anything Union-related.
 
canaryinthemine said:
Look at the Saia guys,......Gotta accept cameras,...and NO CB radios in trucks.......What's next?......a 10' leash to keep them within reach of the truck while on break?.......
Click to expand...
As a retired SAIA driver I can say without a doubt that DriveCam ruined a fairly decent company. I hope the Teamsters can save you from this new technology. I would have worked a couple of more years but I retired at 63 to get away from the constant harassment. Fortunately my 401K and my wife’s healthcare allowed me to get out of SAIA’s heavy handed approach to discipline. They promised it would never be weaponized. They lied and then some.
 
runawaytrain said:
As a retired SAIA driver I can say without a doubt that DriveCam ruined a fairly decent company. I hope the Teamsters can save you from this new technology. I would have worked a couple of more years but I retired at 63 to get away from the constant harassment. Fortunately my 401K and my wife’s healthcare allowed me to get out of SAIA’s heavy handed approach to discipline. They promised it would never be weaponized. They lied and then some.
Click to expand...


Ahh, Brother,.......You confirm our suspicions.....
And once again I am disappointed by the duplicity of corporate management........

Not surprised,........but still disappointed....

When they get to the corporate level,...do they surgically remove all of their morals,...so that they can lie with an easy facility?
 
runawaytrain said:
As a retired SAIA driver I can say without a doubt that DriveCam ruined a fairly decent company. I hope the Teamsters can save you from this new technology. I would have worked a couple of more years but I retired at 63 to get away from the constant harassment. Fortunately my 401K and my wife’s healthcare allowed me to get out of SAIA’s heavy handed approach to discipline. They promised it would never be weaponized. They lied and then some.
Click to expand...
Sad story, but I’m glad you’re doing well. Yes, this new ‘technology’ has been perverted into a dreadful weapon, as evidenced by your experience. I, too, hope the Teamsters can put the kibosh to this.
 
Trucker 206 said:
Sad story, but I’m glad you’re doing well. Yes, this new ‘technology’ has been perverted into a dreadful weapon, as evidenced by your experience. I, too, hope the Teamsters can put the kibosh to this.
Click to expand...
I too hope that the Teamsters can put a stop to this intrusion! Having said that my question is; Is there any hope to get any traction by arguing the Violation of Right to Privacy in Court? As in, must we wait for the Rear-facing cameras to be used for Discipline before any real harm can be shown? I’ve spoken to a 1/3 of our little group here and to a man no one wants their name used to “ Make Waves” (no one wants a target on their back, I get it). If an Attorney could be found to make this case, it would certainly not be cheap! It would also be likely to be accused of being divisive if one were to circumvent our Sole Representatives in this matter. Perhaps we should “Wait and See” what our Negotiators negotiate!
 
Retread said:
I too hope that the Teamsters can put a stop to this intrusion! Having said that my question is; Is there any hope to get any traction by arguing the Violation of Right to Privacy in Court? As in, must we wait for the Rear-facing cameras to be used for Discipline before any real harm can be shown? I’ve spoken to a 1/3 of our little group here and to a man no one wants their name used to “ Make Waves” (no one wants a target on their back, I get it). If an Attorney could be found to make this case, it would certainly not be cheap! It would also be likely to be accused of being divisive if one were to circumvent our Sole Representatives in this matter. Perhaps we should “Wait and See” what our Negotiators negotiate!
Click to expand...
I’m not sure if this has been challenged from a legal perspective. Many companies have them so I’m just not sure. It’s their property and they have certain rights but in my mind it crosses the line to actually watch you. Most car insurance companies have apps now that track your driving habits so you can get a discount. They track your speed ... braking .... miles driven ... thing like that. They aren’t however watching you. Is that the next step? XPO has had them for years with no challenges. They are illegal in Canada to my understanding. Not sure how this will play out. I’m just glad I’m retired.
 
Retread said:
I too hope that the Teamsters can put a stop to this intrusion! Having said that my question is; Is there any hope to get any traction by arguing the Violation of Right to Privacy in Court? As in, must we wait for the Rear-facing cameras to be used for Discipline before any real harm can be shown? I’ve spoken to a 1/3 of our little group here and to a man no one wants their name used to “ Make Waves” (no one wants a target on their back, I get it). If an Attorney could be found to make this case, it would certainly not be cheap! It would also be likely to be accused of being divisive if one were to circumvent our Sole Representatives in this matter. Perhaps we should “Wait and See” what our Negotiators negotiate!
Click to expand...

Yes there are people who are willing to push this further into a court of law.
Yes there are people who have filed.....en masse....with their employer, a letter stating they do not give their employer the right to “view,use, or sell” their personal images.
Yes,..those same people have filed a grievance.
Yes there are people working with legal counsel.

No,.....none of these people work for ABF....

A “target on their back” ?........Let the company get driver-facing cameras,...and the target will be on your face......Every face.....Company’s choice.......

I am here to tell you there are Teamster Brothers who have the courage to push this both with grievances and legal challenges......

The best thing is for more Teamsters to step up....target or not....

But even if they don’t,...there will be a battle fought....
 
Retread said:
I too hope that the Teamsters can put a stop to this intrusion! Having said that my question is; Is there any hope to get any traction by arguing the Violation of Right to Privacy in Court? As in, must we wait for the Rear-facing cameras to be used for Discipline before any real harm can be shown? I’ve spoken to a 1/3 of our little group here and to a man no one wants their name used to “ Make Waves” (no one wants a target on their back, I get it). If an Attorney could be found to make this case, it would certainly not be cheap! It would also be likely to be accused of being divisive if one were to circumvent our Sole Representatives in this matter. Perhaps we should “Wait and See” what our Negotiators negotiate!
Click to expand...


Also, Brother,.......your Local should have,...as all other Union Locals have,.....a legal service on retainer.
All you need is to request through your Local Officers for advice from the Attorneys on retainer to the Local Union. That’s free.....and they should be able to tell you if you do have a legal basis.

The fact that.....wiretap laws make audio illegal,....and that many mass surveillance procedures,...such as in San Francisco,...are now being outlawed.....and....that”yellow tape” on the camera means that the....CORPORATE legal people aren’t quite sure of their standing......
.......means, to me,...that we have a VERY GOOD chance of fighting this.....

The corporate strategy.......their “best case”....would be drivers shrugging their shoulders, and muttering about “accepting the inevitable”......and just giving up.....
The non-Unions don’t have a choice, as they are “Employment-At-Will”......and they have to accept any employer condition on any given day.......or quit....
......regardless of whether the camera intrusion is a violation of their rights, or not.....They just don’t have a legal leg to stand on under “Employment-At-Will”.....

Us Union guys....DO! We have the ability to negotiate any new “requirement of employment” the employers come up with....

NLRB law will back you up on that one.....and ..if you ask your Local for legal advice, that should be provided for free to you, too.....provided the advice is about Labor Law.
Many Union guys aren’t aware that Unions have legal firms on retainer paid for with dues money..........
......which gives YOU the right to get free legal advice......You just have to ask.......Your dues already paid for it.....
 
canaryinthemine said:
Yes there are people who are willing to push this further into a court of law.
Yes there are people who have filed.....en masse....with their employer, a letter stating they do not give their employer the right to “view,use, or sell” their personal images.
Yes,..those same people have filed a grievance.
Yes there are people working with legal counsel.

No,.....none of these people work for ABF....

A “target on their back” ?........Let the company get driver-facing cameras,...and the target will be on your face......Every face.....Company’s choice.......

I am here to tell you there are Teamster Brothers who have the courage to push this both with grievances and legal challenges......

The best thing is for more Teamsters to step up....target or not....

But even if they don’t,...there will be a battle fought....
Click to expand...
I can already hear the conversation.... damn driver's managed to get the camera's out....now how can put more liability on the driver's... I know we make sure everyone has an automatic then we put sensors in the steering wheels and blame them if both hands weren't on it....
 
wheelman1857 said:
I can already hear the conversation.... damn driver's managed to get the camera's out....now how can put more liability on the driver's... I know we make sure everyone has an automatic then we put sensors in the steering wheels and blame them if both hands weren't on it....
Click to expand...
I found as I aged, things ‘itched’ more often, and therefore necessitated one hand being OFF the wheel to scratch said itch. Now there’s a visual for driver-facing camera!
 
I’ve worked for a Teamster company that had cameras installed. They weren’t received well. As you can imagine, all the arguments presented here, were presented there. Here’s what you get to negotiate: the discipline associated with the cameras. That’s it! It’s their equipment, you can’t tell them what equipment they can equip their trucks with. Otherwise why not put in the contract 600 HP engines? As for the audio, as long as they tell you there’s audio, you have NO expectation to privacy, they can do it. Hence all those phone calls that tell you that you’re on a recorded line. What the camera’s do do is, shift legal responsibility to the driver in the case of a accident. If you weren’t doing all you were supposed to be doing, the company will say that they have all these safety policies in place and you violated them so, they’re not responsible, you are. Jus say’n
 
Bullethead said:
I’ve worked for a Teamster company that had cameras installed. They weren’t received well. As you can imagine, all the arguments presented here, were presented there. Here’s what you get to negotiate: the discipline associated with the cameras. That’s it! It’s their equipment, you can’t tell them what equipment they can equip their trucks with. Otherwise why not put in the contract 600 HP engines? As for the audio, as long as they tell you there’s audio, you have NO expectation to privacy, they can do it. Hence all those phone calls that tell you that you’re on a recorded line. What the camera’s do do is, shift legal responsibility to the driver in the case of a accident. If you weren’t doing all you were supposed to be doing, the company will say that they have all these safety policies in place and you violated them so, they’re not responsible, you are. Jus say’n
Click to expand...
I appreciate you sharing your experience with your company. I still believe that there is Maintenance Of Standards Violation argument to be made as these devices are a “New” condition of Employment. Above and in addition to that though is the right to be secure in your person etc. ( including your image likeness and voice) This trumps collective bargaining agreements as well as Employers’ constant movement toward intrusive technologies. There is no implied consent to having your privacy rights violated just because someone else owns the truck that you drive. This is BIGGER than the Union/ Employer debate. The Courts will eventually decide this if the Company does not relent! All my opinion of course!
 
Bullethead said:
I’ve worked for a Teamster company that had cameras installed. They weren’t received well. As you can imagine, all the arguments presented here, were presented there. Here’s what you get to negotiate: the discipline associated with the cameras. That’s it! It’s their equipment, you can’t tell them what equipment they can equip their trucks with. Otherwise why not put in the contract 600 HP engines? As for the audio, as long as they tell you there’s audio, you have NO expectation to privacy, they can do it. Hence all those phone calls that tell you that you’re on a recorded line. What the camera’s do do is, shift legal responsibility to the driver in the case of a accident. If you weren’t doing all you were supposed to be doing, the company will say that they have all these safety policies in place and you violated them so, they’re not responsible, you are. Jus say’n
Click to expand...

Yes,.....it is their equipment......
But,....it is YOUR private image being recorded,.....and not in a “mass” setting like a dock or city street.....
It is a private recording of an individual. If there are any Rights left in this country,......the Right to control your own personal image should be ......at the top of the list.

As I said,.......companies are hoping that drivers just shrug,....and accept it.......whether it’s an invasion of privacy or not.
The only way to determine an “Invasion Of Privacy” would be a court challenge.....
And then all that money they spent on their “new toys”.....becomes a waste.

Should’ve spent it on airbags for tractor trailers......Still not Federally Mandated.......
......and might actually save a driver’s life.....
Instead of some lying, mealy-mouthed, duplicitous “ it might exonerate you!” line of specious horse manure the corporate ticky-tacks are spreading over this particular field......

You think that some of these business types lie so much and are so crooked.....
.....they need their butler’s help in screwing on their pants every morning......
 
canaryinthemine said:
Yes,.....it is their equipment......
But,....it is YOUR private image being recorded,.....and not in a “mass” setting like a dock or city street.....
It is a private recording of an individual. If there are any Rights left in this country,......the Right to control your own personal image should be ......at the top of the list.

As I said,.......companies are hoping that drivers just shrug,....and accept it.......whether it’s an invasion of privacy or not.
The only way to determine an “Invasion Of Privacy” would be a court challenge.....
And then all that money they spent on their “new toys”.....becomes a waste.

Should’ve spent it on airbags for tractor trailers......Still not Federally Mandated.......
......and might actually save a driver’s life.....
Instead of some lying, mealy-mouthed, duplicitous “ it might exonerate you!” line of specious horse manure the corporate ticky-tacks are spreading over this particular field......

You think that some of these business types lie so much and are so crooked.....
.....they need their butler’s help in screwing on their pants every morning......
Click to expand...

Canary, I'm a little concerned about your well-being, posting at 5AM?? this should be reserved for folks my age,
If not working or fishing, you should be sleeping.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top