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TForce | Epidemic of Warnings

harleyman said:
If we are all under the same contract why do the procedures and rules vary so much between terminals? Shouldn't we all be on the same page?? Is it up to the individual BA/terminal or should we all have the same rights, rules and choices?
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I think it's an overall lack of communication on all sides.
What one terminal is doing the other is not and vise versa.
What one terminal grieves and wins in not grieved and won at another.

Seems to me like each Local fights as issues arise and nothing is passed on to other locals.
There has to be some kind of database to refer to on these issues.
 
Dockworker said:
Seems to me like each Local fights as issues arise and nothing is passed on to other locals.
There has to be some kind of database to refer to on these issues.
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Maybe everyone at UPSF should be a member of truckingboards, and then we could all keep communication between terminals.... :gathering: :smile1:
 
loopy105 said:
Maybe everyone at UPSF should be a member of truckingboards, and then we could all keep communication between terminals.... :gathering: :smile1:
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I agree, this is a great start. In fact, this site has informed many members on what's going on.
I was also thinking along the lines of every local keeping this database of what's been grieved and won as well as UPSF itself insuring all their terminals are on the same page with their business.
 
Dockworker said:
When we sign a roster regarding a PCM or training material, we are signing that management and driver are acknowledging and agreeing to the fact that this discussion or training took place.

From that point forward, we are held accountable for our actions.
As drivers we should all be responsible for what we do. We should always remember to do things right the first time. If a driver keeps forgetting, making the same mistake, thats his/her bad and they should get what's coming to them.
There is nothing shady in this roster because it did take place and we both know it. There has to be a level of trust and accountability on both sides.
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A PCM in my definition is communication to employees on new work instruction and is not by any means "oral warning" or a step in the disciplinary process. The contract mentions nothing about PCM'S being a part of the disciplinary act and are therefore pure argument, and argument only!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And should be forced into the grievance system.

NEVER SIGHN ANYTHING, IF YOU ARE FORCED TO DO SO, GRIEVE AND TELL YOU ARE FORCED TO DO SO, PARTICULARLY IF YOU OR YOUR JOB IS THREATENED. There will be no contracts in between MGNT and the employee either written or verbal, it is in the contract, RED AND GOLD CARDS is in the contract as being a written contract between MGNT and the employee and is not allowed and by no means can be used in an investigation into discipline.

If redundancy is the problem, there is still a disciplinary procedure. Take it to the hilt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Besides, being written up for making a mistake is one thing, and is only one thing, but verbal discipline should have been imposed first. Simply miscounting something is human error pending on the circumstances and happens to everyone, and is by no means just cause, unless it is redundant. And redundancy unchallenged could be simply an easy fix for the TM'S lack of #'s. Or simply a routine move to find more favorable replacement.
 
Accelerator said:
A PCM in my definition is communication to employees on new work instruction and is not by any means "oral warning" or a step in the disciplinary process. The contract mentions nothing about PCM'S being a part of the disciplinary act and are therefore pure argument, and argument only!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And should be forced into the grievance system.

NEVER SIGHN ANYTHING, IF YOU ARE FORCED TO DO SO, GRIEVE AND TELL YOU ARE FORCED TO DO SO, PARTICULARLY IF YOU OR YOUR JOB IS THREATENED.

If redundancy is the problem, there is still a disciplinary procedure. Take it to the hilt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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That's exactly how I understood a PCM to be.
New work instruction, OSHA, Training = okay to sign.
It's also been used to address repeat issues. Those are the questionable ones that we would be hesitant to sign.
 
harleyman said:
If we are all under the same contract why do the procedures and rules vary so much between terminals? Shouldn't we all be on the same page?? Is it up to the individual BA/terminal or should we all have the same rights, rules and choices?
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Becuase the system is set up like this, were all entitled to what the contract says, but the company (ups) is not gonna give it to us we have to fight for it, the company undercuts the contract every chance they get this is what the labor managers do this is there job to save the company as much money as possible.

If you in GAF push the company to stick to the contract the company does not want other teminals to know what successes you have had, grievances work rules whatever. The company wants every terminal to fight for therselves. That way the terminals that have weak stewards and unions will not share in the success of the others.
 
..guys I recommend every PCM,minutes of grievance panels,any other correspondence should be posted here...I know minutes of panels is a sticky situation...a local I know of local doesn`t want to give them up....this my friends is the only way we can stay informed...I have the Jan,Feb National Panel minutes and will post them when I get my scanner going....
 
Overnite said:
Becuase the system is set up like this, were all entitled to what the contract says, but the company (ups) is not gonna give it to us we have to fight for it, the company undercuts the contract every chance they get this is what the labor managers do this is there job to save the company as much money as possible.

If you in GAF push the company to stick to the contract the company does not want other teminals to know what successes you have had, grievances work rules whatever. The company wants every terminal to fight for therselves. That way the terminals that have weak stewards and unions will not share in the success of the others.
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I have to agree, it's starting to appear that way.
Every terminal for themselves.
 
upsf-driver said:
At our facility they have the safety committee members reading the PCM's and collecting signatures. The safety committee members also hand out gold cards and post memos telling us where to park our trucks. One is even a steward if you can believe that.
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Contact your BA and let him/her know you dont want to sign these PCM's. Get with your steward and the rest of the guys letting them whats going on and have everybody refuse to sign it, that way management deals with the issue. Since everyone at my terminal refuses, supervisors have to write down everyone's name who attended the PCM meeting. Thats fine and dandy, but they still dont got my signature.

I dont see nothing wrong with a steward who is also a safety committee member as long as this steward is working under the contract. If not, again, get with the guys and ask your BA for vote to replace this steward. Get enough votes first though that way you'll know the steward gets replaced with someone qualified.
 
Dockworker said:
I think it's an overall lack of communication on all sides.
What one terminal is doing the other is not and vise versa.
What one terminal grieves and wins in not grieved and won at another.

Seems to me like each Local fights as issues arise and nothing is passed on to other locals.
There has to be some kind of database to refer to on these issues.
Click to expand...

As a steward, I actually received a batch of grievances from the west. Fon, Pho, Bfd, Frs, etc. I will go over them when I get some time and post grievances that passed that way if its arises at you local, you can us it as a template or evidence that your right. I 'll leave out names and case numbers that way its confidential but if it applies to you, you can PM me.
 
Spoke with my BA tonight. He advised me to have everyone sign EVERY PCM "Under Protest". This covers us as far as not being written up for Failing to Follow Instructions, but gives us the protection under the contract against signing things that may lead to dicipline. If this doesn't make management happy, plan B is to not sign anything at all. My BA said he has my back on this. I'll keep you updated as things progress.
God Bless America and The International Brotherhood of Teamsters!
 
Dockworker said:
That's exactly how I understood a PCM to be.
New work instruction, OSHA, Training = okay to sign.
It's also been used to address repeat issues. Those are the questionable ones that we would be hesitant to sign.
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Sorry, I was not yelling per say by implementing caps, I wanted people to see it. Don't take that personal, it was not meant that way. Sighning for attendance is one thing, knowing the work instruction is one thing, giving time to implement new instruction and training in the process is another, some people pick up things quickly, others do not, workers are only as good as the manager they work for, if your TM is a slacker when it comes to training, so will be the employees working under him.
 
KabawL said:
Contact your BA and let him/her know you dont want to sign these PCM's. Get with your steward and the rest of the guys letting them whats going on and have everybody refuse to sign it, that way management deals with the issue. Since everyone at my terminal refuses, supervisors have to write down everyone's name who attended the PCM meeting. Thats fine and dandy, but they still dont got my signature.

I dont see nothing wrong with a steward who is also a safety committee member as long as this steward is working under the contract. If not, again, get with the guys and ask your BA for vote to replace this steward. Get enough votes first though that way you'll know the steward gets replaced with someone qualified.
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In small package, saftey Managers are implemented , as opposed to fellow workers, look at the union bylaws, one brother is not supposed to tattle on another.

By implementing safety, and correcting others for thier shortcommings is the job of MGNT. not the workforce.
 
harleyman said:
Spoke with my BA tonight. He advised me to have everyone sign EVERY PCM "Under Protest". This covers us as far as not being written up for Failing to Follow Instructions, but gives us the protection under the contract against signing things that may lead to dicipline. If this doesn't make management happy, plan B is to not sign anything at all. My BA said he has my back on this. I'll keep you updated as things progress.
God Bless America and The International Brotherhood of Teamsters!
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Your BA said the same thing mine did, so we choose not to sighn anything. Protested or not.
 
KabawL said:
Contact your BA and let him/her know you dont want to sign these PCM's. Get with your steward and the rest of the guys letting them whats going on and have everybody refuse to sign it, that way management deals with the issue. Since everyone at my terminal refuses, supervisors have to write down everyone's name who attended the PCM meeting. Thats fine and dandy, but they still dont got my signature.

I dont see nothing wrong with a steward who is also a safety committee member as long as this steward is working under the contract. If not, again, get with the guys and ask your BA for vote to replace this steward. Get enough votes first though that way you'll know the steward gets replaced with someone qualified.
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Qualifications for shop steward. First and foremost, a set of ba!!s. Knowledge of the contract. No selfish motivation what so ever. Willingness to give ones own time and keep giving it. Courage to put ones own sense of security aside for the sake of your members. Willing to endure lost sleep, fights with your wife, unhealthy conditions such as loose stool, migraine head aches, stress, etc. An uncanny ability to think out of the box, and stay one step ahead of your terminal managements next move. Skilled at negotiating, and picking your battles. Keeping negative information from the rest of your members by staying positive. ie. pointing out the many positive accomplishments that working under a union contract have brought to the members. Never taking the easy route out of a situation and blaming the contract or anyone but yourself, after all, you are the leader of your men. Networking with other stewards to solidify our brotherhood, and to help each other with grievances. And last but not least. The respect of your members, and confidence that you are representing them to the best of your ability. This will create an iron curtain that your TM will not be able to divide. And they have been trying to divide the stewards from their men. If you display any preferential treatment that can be used as an ulterior motivation for taking on the steward duties, you can bet it will come back to haunt you. That is, if you truly care about representing your men. But when your heart is in the right place it is obvious to the members, management, and your local. You will have a greater chance for success with all three of these groups understanding your intentions. I know first hand that Kabawl is one of these stewards who tries his best to defend his crew. We should acknowledge this when we see it. Good job Kabawl. Teamster Elvis out.....
 
elvis said:
Qualifications for shop steward. First and foremost, a set of ba!!s. Knowledge of the contract. No selfish motivation what so ever. Willingness to give ones own time and keep giving it. Courage to put ones own sense of security aside for the sake of your members. Willing to endure lost sleep, fights with your wife, unhealthy conditions such as loose stool, migraine head aches, stress, etc. An uncanny ability to think out of the box, and stay one step ahead of your terminal managements next move. Skilled at negotiating, and picking your battles. Keeping negative information from the rest of your members by staying positive. ie. pointing out the many positive accomplishments that working under a union contract have brought to the members. Never taking the easy route out of a situation and blaming the contract or anyone but yourself, after all, you are the leader of your men. Networking with other stewards to solidify our brotherhood, and to help each other with grievances. And last but not least. The respect of your members, and confidence that you are representing them to the best of your ability. This will create an iron curtain that your TM will not be able to divide. And they have been trying to divide the stewards from their men. If you display any preferential treatment that can be used as an ulterior motivation for taking on the steward duties, you can bet it will come back to haunt you. That is, if you truly care about representing your men. But when your heart is in the right place it is obvious to the members, management, and your local. You will have a greater chance for success with all three of these groups understanding your intentions. I know first hand that Kabawl is one of these stewards who tries his best to defend his crew. We should acknowledge this when we see it. Good job Kabawl. Teamster Elvis out.....
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Thanks. For a second I thought you were reading the back of a medication bottle.
 
..herding cats...think about it,cats/truck drivers,we are a independent lot..getting us to agree and stand as a collective is at best tedious..and at worst..well you get the drift....it`s diplomacy at its basic form...
 
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