If you are going to say something, get it right Docker didn't throw you jail I did.I gave you both a warning, he heeded my warning but you didn't, Next time get your story straight
ABF | ABF Agreement: Monday, May 20!
- Thread starter Freightmaster1
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If you are going to say something, get it right Docker didn't throw you jail I did.I gave you both a warning, he heeded my warning but you didn't, Next time get your story straight
Steward of the Rock
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While you are doing your research, go back to 2010 and 2011. There you will see that Judy M. received a raise of $455,000 dollars at the end of 2011. Even with the compensation cut that she may have taken for 2012, she is still way ahead of where she was in her compensation for 2010 or 2011 when she received this raise. If my memory serves me, she is still compensated roughly $50,000 more now than she was before her compensation gain for 2011. ABF tried to get the union employees to take a 15% pay cut in 2010 that failed, but they have the money to give Judy M. a $455,000 raise at the end of 2011 while the company is reportedly still losing money. If ABF wants to give me a 35% pay increase this year and then reduce by 30% next year, well I would be more than happy to accept these terms which is essentially what they did for Judy's pay package. Go4gold, it should also be noted that of the $265 Million that ABF is reporting that they have lost since 2009, it is not reflecting the $62 Million Good Will Impairment that they received for 2009. It should also be noted that since the roll out of their regional service (RPM), that this regional service has lost money every single quarter since it's inception which I believe was either 2006 or 2007. My understanding is that RPM affects the operating ratio negatively by 1.5% to 2%. While 2009 was a terrible year and ABF did take a financial beating, ABF would have made a profit of nearly $45 Million for the combined years of 2011 and 2012 had they not had the RPM service. It may be flawed as I am no financial wizard by any means, but here is how I came to that conclusion. Total Revenue for 2011 and 2012 combined was $3.46 Billion---Total losses for 2011 and 2012 combined was $15.6 Million (+$3.7 Million for 2011 and -$19.3 Million for 2012). Total losses for RPM service for 2011 and 2012 was $60.55 Million (-1.75% of Revenue). So, by my calculations, if ABF did not have the RPM service, they would have had a $45 Million profit for these two years combined. ABF say's that Regional Service (RPM) is the way of the future, but if you lose money on it for six or seven straight years then it is either time to fix it or stop it before this "way of the future" puts us out of business.
As I have stated before, I do not work or get paid by ABFS or have I EVER worked or gotten paid by ABFS. I have NEVER worked or gotten paid by any trucking company. I have NEVER carried a union card. Over my lifetime I have been a blue collar worker, management and self employed. It is very clear what is going to happen at ABFS. If card A is played, this will happen. If card B is played, something different will happen. If the union thinks that a no vote will keep the status quo or give them an opportunity to renegotiate with ABFS, they are going to be sadly mistaken. Follow the money.
Here is what the union should do if they think ABFS is a bed of roses and management is taking all of the money. Acquire the company in an employee buyout. Raise about $600 million in funds. Run the company as a private company and siphon off all the money you want for wages, pensions and health care. See how long you can compete with non-union truckers without taking any cuts. I have no problem with people making as much money as possible as long as it fits within the frame work of a company, allows it to prosper and allows a proper return on investment to investors. If the New Orleans Saints want to pay their quarterback $20 million a year and that is his market value, then more power to both of them. If the New Orleans Saints are a public company and the salary for their quarterback is twice the rate of a comparable quarterback and those salaries are causing the company to take a loss, that means the investors are also taking losses on their money. Then changes need to be made.
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Docker
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What amazes me is that someone that has never worked at any trucking company...let alone ABF or any union and without having any knowledge about it's operations can offer their advice of how things will be played out.
Now...since you were amazed that there was not one post on these message boards since Friday afternoon recognizing those cuts and the contributions of others to make ABFS an on going concern....why don't you just produce the facts to back up your statement? Then I will post mine!!!!
If you are not an employee, or management, and have never been compensated by ABF/ABC. Then may I ask what is your interest in ABF
Well, papa, you gotta admit, it's high drama! Who's gonna blink, may already be a done deal...the saga continues
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Docker
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By the way go4gold...here's a little refresher course to bring you up to speed about ABF:
Please...just let me know what statement that you want me to back up with proof...Ok?
Please...just let me know what statement that you want me to back up with proof...Ok?
:D:D:D
As they say, it isn't over till the fat lady sings. lol Everybody has their own opinions. The Truth is out out there, people just needs to know all the facts and most important vote.......
Well, papa, you gotta admit, it's high drama! Who's gonna blink, may already be a done deal...the saga continues
As they say, it isn't over till the fat lady sings. lol Everybody has their own opinions. The Truth is out out there, people just needs to know all the facts and most important vote.......
Steward, THANK YOU! This is one of the best written, thought out messages I have read on these message boards. No emotion just numbers to have a conversation about. There are many things to discuss here so let's start with your comments about regional trucking and I will dig deeper into that part of the company and trucking in general to see if an answer can be provided. Or perhaps someone else can address regional trucking. I know at YRCW when I was deep into research at that company years ago, their regional trucking companies were more profitable than Yellow. So this surprised me. I also agree, if part of your business is cancerous you cut it out, if it is not instrumental to other operations. So, a question that comes to mind is whether management is making the proper decisions to run a profitable company. My answer to that is, no in some cases. I have been critical of management not reducing the work force as their real growth at ABF is negative over the last five years. They have overcapacity at terminals and labor. I can't put myself in the heads of upper management and how they deal with union labor. Perhaps, they waited for union negotiations to address that issue. In non union companies your labor pool ebbs and flows with the tide of your sales and profits monthly, weekly, daily. Your biggest controllable expense is labor. Managers in most companies have to figure out how to do more with less every year. That doesn't appear to be the case at ABFS. Also, don't get me wrong! I am not here to defend management. Just here to discuss facts and see if another well established, historical company can be saved. Now as far as losses in the last 4 years, can we agree that even if you pull out the good will impairment the losses are near $200 million (by your numbers) and pretty pathetic? More to come....
Steward of the Rock
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Of that $200 Million loss, roughly $165 Million was for the years 2009 and 2010 combined (taking out the Good Will Impairment). If the operating ratio is affected negatively by 1.5% to 2% by the regional service (RPM), then that means ABF is losing roughly $30 Million per year with this current model. The point I was trying to make is that ABF needs to fix the way they operate and stop the bleeding from within before they come to labor to fix the problem with pay cuts and reduced benefits. Most of us in labor understand that work rules need to be changed to fit today's needs, but asking us to take a pay cut just to watch them waste that money on RPM which is currently sucking the life out of this company is crazy.
The question that needs to be asked is why is your regional service losing money? How can it be fixed? Even by getting the regional service to a break even proposition, your company runs at a loss. Your operating ratio is approx. 101%. To reduce the operating ratio by another 5% would require another $85 million in savings. To get to 10% would require $170 million in savings. Keep in mind some non union truckers are well below 90% operating ratios. I don't think you can get to those kinds of cost savings without touching labor, health care and pensions. If you go back and read some of my previous posts you will see my concerns over operational costs. I agree with you, everything needs to be squeezed out of the operation as possible.
Outstanding timeline! With the information you posted you had to go to SEC documents to get it. Isn't that much better information to make rational decisions then much of the other stuff that is incorrect on these message boards. I stated that the top four executives took a 20% total compensation cut in 2012 versus 2011. You know that to be a true statement form the SEC DEF14A. I told you McReynolds took a total compensation cut of 30% for 2012 versus 2011. The top 4 executives made $3,371,331 last year in total compensation. They do not determine their own compensation. The compensation committee does that and all of that is also explained in the SEC filings. If your curious about what other executives make, let's look at YRCW. Their top 4 executives made $6,186,697 in total compensation. All of this is very current information form both companies SEC filings. That tells me that compensation at ABFS is probably in line if the executives are competent. Ok, get rid of the top four executives and run the company without them. That means the trucking division lost.... what $16 million instead of $19 million. It doesn't really solver the problem of making ABFS and on going concern. Steward, went back a little further in years on executive salary and I will make a post on that later. On your timeline, please add that management had its pension compensation eliminated at mid year. NEW TOPIC. It is obvious, ABFS is trying to expand their business to more non asset, probably non union companies. Where ABF used to be 96% to 98% of the total business it will probably be closer to 75% of the total business by the end of the year. Non asset business is growing and is profitable. Management has more control over those entities. Why would you as an employee not want those divisions to grow and be profitable? Neither one of us can determine the viability of the Panther purchase at this time. It was a very profitable business when purchased and the purchase was well received by trucking analysts when completed.
Steward of the Rock
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I am sure that there are more inner probems with how ABF operates. This RPM example is just one of them. And, you are correct that a company needs to operate at roughly a 95% O.R. or better to continue growth and reinvest in the company. When it is all said and done, labor will probably have to accept some wage cuts and benefit reductions to survive. But why would anybody agree to do this until the company fixed the operating issues that they currently have that is draining money? And as far as reducing labor, the terminal that I work at offers overtime pretty much four to five days a week because there are no qualified applicants to hire that have their CDL with all of the required endorsements to do the job. So, I don't think that reducing the number of jobs will help fix the problem but rather hinder it.
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Docker
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What are you talking about...just what are you going to discuss and with whom? Dig deeper into what? By your own admittance...you don't even have the fundamental knowledge...let alone the working knowledge of trucking and ABC/ABF...so just what are you trying to accomplish here?
And here you are...pretending to be an expert...at exactly what...I'm not sure but you sure are barking up a wrong tree pretending not to be associated with ABC. So I tell you what...let's just start digging deeper into that...Ok?
No...the question that needs to be asked is just who do you think you are fooling here? If you think that you are going to get away with picking and choosing which posts you reply to here like on the inforound...you are sadly mistaken...I'm going to be on you like a bad dream until you prove what sacrifices top management have sacrificed since the 2010 like you claim!
And as for you Steward of the Rock...I sure hope that you are not a real steward...making statements like this:
Now...tell me steward...just how much did Gordy give back on our pension already?
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Docker
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You guys got a nice little dialogue going here...and you're coming along nicely there steward...but don't make it quite so obvious...Ok?
Steward of the Rock
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Don't make what quite so obvious? I was explaining to Go4gold how this company is wasting money and yet they want us to take concessions before they even bother to take care of the profit killing problems that they have in house. And, for the record, I am the lead steward for the dock/city operations in North Little Rock, AR. out of Teamsters Local #878. Where are you from and what is your job classification?
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Docker
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Well...if you are a lead steward...then just why are you on a public forum spouting crap like labor will probably have to accept some wage cuts and benefit reductions to survive? I am what my username states...a dockworker from Dallas...local 745!!!! And if you were my steward down here in Dallas...I sure wouldn't want you to be my head steward!!!! I would be ashamed to call you my steward after that remark!!!!!
Steward of the Rock
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Well then it's good thing that I am not your steward and it would be up to you who would represent you if you needed representation. And I really don't care if you were ashamed of me or not as a steward. Most of the people that I represent seem to be satisfied with the representation I give them as I am the one they usually request to represent them when need be. Not an easy or fun job, but somebody has got to do it. And again, if you will read my post I was stating that ABF should clean up their losses from within before approaching us with concessions. Only after this is done would I even consider voting for any kind of concessions period.
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Docker
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Don't try to weasel out now...don't even try and tell me that you didn't admit defeat by stating that labor will probably have to accept some wage cuts and benefit reductions to survive! Did you or did you not make that statement? The only part you left out was just how much of a pay cut and what benefit reductions you were so willing to give up!!!!! So tell us now...the company is watching...this way they will know just what to ask for to get your vote!!!!!!