Docker, I respect your opinion but I disagree. I did not vote for a pay cut. Most of the road employees at local 728 voted no on the 2013 contract. So we were forced into taking a pay, vacation, and jobs cut (purchase transportation). I would be interested in the exact information related to who, when, where, and why this Holland retiree took a pay cut? I think KK posted the 2013 contract votes on this board not to long ago. Local 728 (Atlanta) road board is in the southern confernce. I'll see if I can find the exact numbers for our vote count. That will let you know how many of us where forced to take a pay and vacation cut.
ABF | ABF Attacks Pensions?
- Thread starter Kennesaw Kid
- Start date
I will call him tomorrow and he'll be happy to explain that to you.
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I believe this is the YRC 2009 vote count. If I'm reading the 2nd vote count correctly, then 12,267 employes voted for (yes) the wage cut and 6,314 voted for NO wage cut. To put it another way 66% of employees thought YRC would close their doors without a pay and pension cut and they did not want to take that chance. Is that how you read this? Thanks for posting this.How close are these numbers?
I don't think that is correct or is missing some numbers. I believe there was 250 vote difference between yes and no votes in the ABF 2013 NMFA count.Disregard those last numbers... I pulled up YRC's by mistake...
That's the way I read it too... except for the employees thought YRC would close their doors without a pay and pension cut and they did not want to take that chance part... which I would replace with... that let fear overrule common sense.
That is where we disagree. I think YRC would have gone out of business if not for the wage and pension cut.
And that we will never know for sure because it was finally accepted. Besides... I never said that YRC wouldn't of never closed their doors for sure if you recall. I said that they let fear overrule common sense which the difference between the fist and second vote results pretty much explains all by itself.
So local 728 (my local) voted 61.6% no and 38.4% yes. Or 61.6% of local 728 employees were forced to take a pay and vacation cut. Also, I believe the percentage of road drivers that voted no was much higher. KK posted how each local voted and it was broken down by job.That's just the Southern Region.. here's the region totals...
I don't think fear overruled there common sense. I think realizion of what could and would happen if they continued to do nothing...... Also, I was in my second semester of graduate school (getting an MBA) and we discussed YRC financial results in class. I don't remember a single student or instructor arguing that YRC had a chance of avoiding bankruptcy.
IMO... that breakdown which I also have available really isn't relevant because the fact of the matter is a yes is a yes and a no is a no... no matter which Local you are from. Think about it... a yes voter(which very few seldom admit now) from your Local could meet a no voting driver from the Albuquerque Local and now boast about his Local voting no rubbing it in of how that Albuquerque Local voted yes. That's some scenario... isn't it?
What it really boils down to is that 3,213 members accepted the concessions while 2,963 members had the concessions forced upon them. I just feel bad for the members voting no in Albuquerque seeing how it was 172 yes and only 40 no because that yes voter from your Local shouldn't be walking around all proud now just because he's from your Local just like that no voter from Albuquerque sure as hell doesn't have anything to be ashamed of now.
Just because someone went to college doesn't impress me a bit and is no better than an idiot when it comes to accurately predicting the future. If the ABF Teamsters were to have accepted that 15% pay cut in 1988...we would have ABF Teamsters still walking around today saying that ABF wouldn't of ever survived if they wouldn't of accepted that 15% pay cut in 1988 because they were really in dire financial straits too... but guess what... that pay cut was turned down and somehow they miraculously survived. Mr. Young still ended up finding a way! I also bet you that you wouldn't of found a single student or instructor at that graduate school of yours that would of argued that ABF would survive without that 15% cut too!
Here's a question for you... what do think the percentage was of the ABF Teamsters that voted yes in 2013 that let fear overrule their common sense?
I never said you did... as a matter of fact... I never even implied as much... so whatever gave you that idea?
IMO... turncoat is a fool not to be taken seriously at all. After all... what kind of grown man expects you to take him seriously when he's proud to take the name traitor as a screen name? After all... that very name betrays everything that a Teamster is supposed to stand for.
You have never seen me post anything about paying me full rate and screw the rest. You are a weak man you roll over as soon as someone says there is s problem. I look for solutions not giving up and whining. If you were going too come to abf and agree to give backs why leave Yrc?
No you are a quiter and it hurts good hard working Teamsters. Why do all you guys keep calling Docker names?
Turncoat, it is better to be thought a fool, than to post/talk and remove all doubt" ..That is you in a nutshell
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IF I MAY....At the very 1st Concessions vote at YRCW, I have NO DOUBT the doors would have been closed. The Local officers at the meeting agreed on non-disclosure at the 2-man meeting we had to "look over" the books and cannot discuss the figures.
With THAT said, what transpired in the votes after that gave me cause for alarm. The vote to extend the current MOU which gave the company the PTS language was voted on by ALL YRCW companies, YRC Freight, New Penn and Holland. The language in there was to allow PTS to happen and to red circle certain numbers at Road Domiciles. HERE IS THE KICKER....previous votes were done by ballots based on different companies. YRC got their own ballot and voted on issues pertaining to YRC. Holland and New Penn did the same. In the last vote for the MOU to end in 2019, ALL companies were allowed to vote as one! The Holland and New Penn employees vote was counted in on the YRC road drivers losing their work to PTS. I argued that fact at a Union meeting at Local 728 (I had gone back to the Road before that)....WHY DID THOSE COMPANIES WHO HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH PTS GET THE RIGHT TO VOTE ON YRC DRIVERS HAVING IT? I called those up front liars for saying they were ONLY bringing it to the members for a vote, when at the meeting going over this last MOU ( I got to listen in thanks to a friend) there was a vote held by the IBT in the room that they would accept it and take it to the members and get them to vote for it. ONLY 7 Locals in that room voted against the MOU 2019 and Local 728 was NOT one of them and I called them out on it! TJ even repeated a second time that did they know the vote was to ACCEPT the MOU and support it and to get your members to vote to accept it.
But what happened afterwards did happen....when they were duped into voting yes at the Locals in person and not with mail ballots, the company came out with the SEC filing that showed they DID make a profit in the 4Q of that year, and several weeks later some in management received stock awards. To this day, I still believe that the YRCF folks voted down the MOU, but the additional votes by the other YRCW companies over-rode the YRCF vote to implement PTS in our Line-haul system. But we will never know the truth.
I got tired of all the politics in the concessions givebacks in the MOU prior to the 2019 MOU and family issues too and went back to the driving line-haul in 2012 and retired in 2017. I said then this was going to hurt our pensions even more with the frozen rate of 2009, and just 25% of that rate being paid in until 2019. The $100M owed to CSPF to be paid at the end of the 2019 MOU has now been deferred to 12.31.2019. Why?
The ABF Brothers & Sisters were a VERY STRONG NO VOTE and stood up to TJ and their BS. Why would you vote yes to give up your bid formula and force Senior drivers to the extra-board?
ABF & YRC Teamsters better wake it up this time...DEMAND a secret mail in ballot....DEMAND your concessions back!
With THAT said, what transpired in the votes after that gave me cause for alarm. The vote to extend the current MOU which gave the company the PTS language was voted on by ALL YRCW companies, YRC Freight, New Penn and Holland. The language in there was to allow PTS to happen and to red circle certain numbers at Road Domiciles. HERE IS THE KICKER....previous votes were done by ballots based on different companies. YRC got their own ballot and voted on issues pertaining to YRC. Holland and New Penn did the same. In the last vote for the MOU to end in 2019, ALL companies were allowed to vote as one! The Holland and New Penn employees vote was counted in on the YRC road drivers losing their work to PTS. I argued that fact at a Union meeting at Local 728 (I had gone back to the Road before that)....WHY DID THOSE COMPANIES WHO HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH PTS GET THE RIGHT TO VOTE ON YRC DRIVERS HAVING IT? I called those up front liars for saying they were ONLY bringing it to the members for a vote, when at the meeting going over this last MOU ( I got to listen in thanks to a friend) there was a vote held by the IBT in the room that they would accept it and take it to the members and get them to vote for it. ONLY 7 Locals in that room voted against the MOU 2019 and Local 728 was NOT one of them and I called them out on it! TJ even repeated a second time that did they know the vote was to ACCEPT the MOU and support it and to get your members to vote to accept it.
But what happened afterwards did happen....when they were duped into voting yes at the Locals in person and not with mail ballots, the company came out with the SEC filing that showed they DID make a profit in the 4Q of that year, and several weeks later some in management received stock awards. To this day, I still believe that the YRCF folks voted down the MOU, but the additional votes by the other YRCW companies over-rode the YRCF vote to implement PTS in our Line-haul system. But we will never know the truth.
I got tired of all the politics in the concessions givebacks in the MOU prior to the 2019 MOU and family issues too and went back to the driving line-haul in 2012 and retired in 2017. I said then this was going to hurt our pensions even more with the frozen rate of 2009, and just 25% of that rate being paid in until 2019. The $100M owed to CSPF to be paid at the end of the 2019 MOU has now been deferred to 12.31.2019. Why?
The ABF Brothers & Sisters were a VERY STRONG NO VOTE and stood up to TJ and their BS. Why would you vote yes to give up your bid formula and force Senior drivers to the extra-board?
ABF & YRC Teamsters better wake it up this time...DEMAND a secret mail in ballot....DEMAND your concessions back!