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ABF | ABF-Teamsters Contract Negotiations Update 4-19-13

I for that matter we don't have anything to hide. I am a proud union member with a right to vote, and a right to have my voice heard. I will gladly put my name all over that.
 
Dave, I am an individual that researchs balance sheets, income statements, sec filings of various companies that have the potential to be much better than they are currently operating. I then invest in those companies if I think they have a more than fair share of turning around. I only bet on companies not against. The jury is still out on what is going to happen here. There is still time for ABFS to make a go of it. The contract that is being negotiated will determine how much longer ABFS has got. It maybe too late for YRC. I am not employed by ABFS or the union so I am simply a third party looking at both sides of your company issues. I am sorry that your local management is not responsive to the workers ideas or at least is telling you why things can't be done. Companies should not be run top down. Sounds to me like management in your location needs to be replaced. Does anyone from corporate visit your location and talk to the employees about concerns? Is there ever a discussion between corporate and labor without a union representative as a go between? There has to be some level of exchange and some level of trust. How many teamsters own stock in the company? Does anyone go to the stockholder meetings and ask questions? The more you know about your company the more you will know who is telling the truth. Dave I do know this, any company that has expenses of $103 to produce $100 in sales can't survive. At YRC even with all of the cost concessions they still operate at 97%. Old Dominion operates at 86%. That is a huge difference. The stock analysts that follow your company have about a 50% to 50% split on whether ABFS will make it or not. That and the poor results from the last 4 years have the stock price in the tank.

I have been asked to not post any longer by the next poster. I will do so. We wouldn't want facts or an exchange of ideas to get in the way of misinformation from either side. Dave, good luck to you, again. I hope you and the company will listen to each other and come to a good conclusion for all concerned.
 
Thanks go4. I have taken away some useful info from our chat. For you this is about balance sheets etc. I understand that. For me this about something much bigger. This is about my life. Whether my daughter finishes college. If I can pay for meds for my sick wife. Whether I can pay for my daughters wedding. Will I be able to retire? All that aside............its about what is RIGHT. Thanks for the chat, and good luck to you too.
 
Brother Hoffa, I really don't think it matters whether he's....(or she...) is management or not. We've all known for a while that management monitors the social media connected to trucking......it's good to see someone with a management perspective come here...I think we can really debate the issues. Go 4Gold sounds like he has an inside track to what management is thinking.....that's good. Now let's show him exactly what we're thinking and why we think this way. I think Brother Dave held his own pretty good......there's a certain few aspects of life as a trucking employee that management doesn't seem to grasp. I don't think they realize many of us are disgusted with what our occupation is turning into,....and that a lot of that disgust started twenty or so years ago,....it's not specific to ABF and the current contract talks.......BUT,..the current talks are a symptom. We are expected to do more, and work harder, as we get older. We have much more liability and responsibility, and management has a very cavalier attitude as to how all of this is wearing us out.....PHYSICALLY...and mentally. Many of us are fed up with what we see as the old terrorization tactics. "We've lost money" "We're going to go bankrupt unless you guys sacrifice your future", "You may not have a job to come back to , if you go on strike".............ad infinitum. in other words Go4Gold, this is the 10,974th time I've heard management plead poverty. I'm starting to develop a callus in the spot where I'm supposed to care. A labor contract standardizes labor and benefit rates. ABF has known for 5 years EXACTLY what they were going to pay for labor and benefits, and yet they could not manage that information, and still run their company profitably. Let's put the shoe on the other foot....if,...within that 5 years, the economy would've heated up, and profit levels had gone sky-high, and production of goods would've tripled.........and the wages for truck drivers all of a sudden tripled, because there's not enough qualified drivers out there, and companies started giving $3000.00 hiring bonuses.....(ooops....they're doing that now....)...would ABF, in the middle of the contract...with set labor rates...have offered to pay higher money to keep qualified drivers?....I don't think so, they would've stood on the contract and said "That's what you guys negotiated, now you have to live with it." ,....or they would've until drivers' pay in other companies got so high, they would risk a mass exodus....Dave Larson made a good point. In good times, when profit was made....large profits....none was shared with the labor force. But now, when times are bad,...it's the labor force that has to pull the companies' irons out of the fire.....because of short-sighted mis-management. I think you're dealing with a pretty angry labor force....."Pugnacious" was one word used to describe us. What do you think made us that way?
 
ABFer said:
The O/O's thing puzzles me a bit. I know that they were union when the union was in its heyday and I am pretty sure that Jones Motor Co., still has some. So how does it work with them? It is OK if nobody complains?
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Brother ABFer, Owner-Operators are considered independent business owners....emphasis on the independent. It is illegal for a group of business owners to form an association with the intent to standardize the price of their services to the public. If you remember the Los Angeles Port strike in the 90's, the O/O's ....(the guys with the 1987 W-900, or the R-Model Mack w/ no sleeper..) formed what they thought was a Union and tried to go on strike. The Federal Government,....with heavy pressure from the Port Authority of L.A., and the large shippers and steamship lines.....stepped in and threatened all the O/O's with RICO act violations, and mass arrests, if they didn't disband and go back to work. According to the Government's interpretation of the law, they were business owners denying their services to the "public", and therefore, were conspiring to drive up prices. Hence the RICO Act,...usually used against mobsters, and shady business owners with IRS problems. Now do you see why Federal Express wants their line-haul,...and their package cars,...to be O/O's? They can never, by law, organize, they are "contractors" and "business owners". However, the Government did cme up with a strict interpretation of what it means to be an "independent contractor". The company can't tell you to wear a uniform, nor can they tell you to paint your truck with their logo, nor can they "order, or direct" your work,...they can only "offer" and you're supposed to have a choice on whether to take the work offered or not. This is why Federal Express has so many lawsuits about contractor status. If the company requires, or does all of the above things, you are no longer a "contractor",...you are an employee,..and as such, the company now must pay your Worker Compensation Insurance, your Social Security at 14.2% (...an O/O..pays all of that...) collect and pay payroll taxes on a weekly basis, instead of issuing a 1099 and the contractor paying ALL of his taxes quarterly. In the 80's, I did work for Central Transport as a Teamster O/O. To be compliant with the law, Central paid two checks.....a Truck check,...for lease of your equipment,...and a Driver's wage check,....for YOUR work driving and delivering....regular taxes taken out of your Drivers' check. How many O/O's today figure in their labor, along with the companies' use of their equipment?
 
canaryinthemine said:
Brother ABFer, Owner-Operators are considered independent business owners....emphasis on the independent. It is illegal for a group of business owners to form an association with the intent to standardize the price of their services to the public. If you remember the Los Angeles Port strike in the 90's, the O/O's ....(the guys with the 1987 W-900, or the R-Model Mack w/ no sleeper..) formed what they thought was a Union and tried to go on strike. The Federal Government,....with heavy pressure from the Port Authority of L.A., and the large shippers and steamship lines.....stepped in and threatened all the O/O's with RICO act violations, and mass arrests, if they didn't disband and go back to work. According to the Government's interpretation of the law, they were business owners denying their services to the "public", and therefore, were conspiring to drive up prices. Hence the RICO Act,...usually used against mobsters, and shady business owners with IRS problems. Now do you see why Federal Express wants their line-haul,...and their package cars,...to be O/O's? They can never, by law, organize, they are "contractors" and "business owners". However, the Government did cme up with a strict interpretation of what it means to be an "independent contractor". The company can't tell you to wear a uniform, nor can they tell you to paint your truck with their logo, nor can they "order, or direct" your work,...they can only "offer" and you're supposed to have a choice on whether to take the work offered or not. This is why Federal Express has so many lawsuits about contractor status. If the company requires, or does all of the above things, you are no longer a "contractor",...you are an employee,..and as such, the company now must pay your Worker Compensation Insurance, your Social Security at 14.2% (...an O/O..pays all of that...) collect and pay payroll taxes on a weekly basis, instead of issuing a 1099 and the contractor paying ALL of his taxes quarterly. In the 80's, I did work for Central Transport as a Teamster O/O. To be compliant with the law, Central paid two checks.....a Truck check,...for lease of your equipment,...and a Driver's wage check,....for YOUR work driving and delivering....regular taxes taken out of your Drivers' check. How many O/O's today figure in their labor, along with the companies' use of their equipment?
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Yep you are correct I forgot about the two check thing, I was leased to jones Lancer div.
 
Just so we don't get off track here. It is easy to get angry with ABF( sometimes i am guilty). Let's not forget GREED is the nature of the beast. They are trying to do what is best for themselves. As are we. Ultimately it is our decision what happens. Stay strong, talk to your buddies, explain the injustices in this or whatever the final proposal is. If we get screwed it will be because we didnt do a good enough job of getting the word out to vote NO. I realize this is a deeply personal decision for most. Vote with your heart, but make sure it is a well informed heart. LOL
 
go4gold said:
Dave, I am an individual that researchs balance sheets, income statements, sec filings of various companies that have the potential to be much better than they are currently operating. I then invest in those companies if I think they have a more than fair share of turning around. I only bet on companies not against. The jury is still out on what is going to happen here. There is still time for ABFS to make a go of it. The contract that is being negotiated will determine how much longer ABFS has got. It maybe too late for YRC. I am not employed by ABFS or the union so I am simply a third party looking at both sides of your company issues. I am sorry that your local management is not responsive to the workers ideas or at least is telling you why things can't be done. Companies should not be run top down. Sounds to me like management in your location needs to be replaced. Does anyone from corporate visit your location and talk to the employees about concerns? Is there ever a discussion between corporate and labor without a union representative as a go between? There has to be some level of exchange and some level of trust. How many teamsters own stock in the company? Does anyone go to the stockholder meetings and ask questions? The more you know about your company the more you will know who is telling the truth. Dave I do know this, any company that has expenses of $103 to produce $100 in sales can't survive. At YRC even with all of the cost concessions they still operate at 97%. Old Dominion operates at 86%. That is a huge difference. The stock analysts that follow your company have about a 50% to 50% split on whether ABFS will make it or not. That and the poor results from the last 4 years have the stock price in the tank.

I have been asked to not post any longer by the next poster. I will do so. We wouldn't want facts or an exchange of ideas to get in the way of misinformation from either side. Dave, good luck to you, again. I hope you and the company will listen to each other and come to a good conclusion for all concerned.
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This guy is in abf middle manangemen without a doubt. Sure love how they constantly bring up OD. OD is in a class by itself. You can't compare the clowns who work there with the rest of the industry. They Will work for free if the company asked them to. Don't let the standard be set by a workforce that sits down when they pee
 
If I'm going to be paid like and Old Dominican driver I'm going to start looking like one.
 
canaryinthemine said:
Brother Hoffa, I really don't think it matters whether he's....(or she...) is management or not. We've all known for a while that management monitors the social media connected to trucking......it's good to see someone with a management perspective come here...I think we can really debate the issues. Go 4Gold sounds like he has an inside track to what management is thinking.....that's good. Now let's show him exactly what we're thinking and why we think this way. I think Brother Dave held his own pretty good......there's a certain few aspects of life as a trucking employee that management doesn't seem to grasp. I don't think they realize many of us are disgusted with what our occupation is turning into,....and that a lot of that disgust started twenty or so years ago,....it's not specific to ABF and the current contract talks.......BUT,..the current talks are a symptom. We are expected to do more, and work harder, as we get older. We have much more liability and responsibility, and management has a very cavalier attitude as to how all of this is wearing us out.....PHYSICALLY...and mentally. Many of us are fed up with what we see as the old terrorization tactics. "We've lost money" "We're going to go bankrupt unless you guys sacrifice your future", "You may not have a job to come back to , if you go on strike".............ad infinitum. in other words Go4Gold, this is the 10,974th time I've heard management plead poverty. I'm starting to develop a callus in the spot where I'm supposed to care. A labor contract standardizes labor and benefit rates. ABF has known for 5 years EXACTLY what they were going to pay for labor and benefits, and yet they could not manage that information, and still run their company profitably. Let's put the shoe on the other foot....if,...within that 5 years, the economy would've heated up, and profit levels had gone sky-high, and production of goods would've tripled.........and the wages for truck drivers all of a sudden tripled, because there's not enough qualified drivers out there, and companies started giving $3000.00 hiring bonuses.....(ooops....they're doing that now....)...would ABF, in the middle of the contract...with set labor rates...have offered to pay higher money to keep qualified drivers?....I don't think so, they would've stood on the contract and said "That's what you guys negotiated, now you have to live with it." ,....or they would've until drivers' pay in other companies got so high, they would risk a mass exodus....Dave Larson made a good point. In good times, when profit was made....large profits....none was shared with the labor force. But now, when times are bad,...it's the labor force that has to pull the companies' irons out of the fire.....because of short-sighted mis-management. I think you're dealing with a pretty angry labor force....."Pugnacious" was one word used to describe us. What do you think made us that way?
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You just said it best at what is really happening during the talks. Just a guess but I believe Gordon is really concerned about bringing us a bad proposal. If we vote it down by more than 75% there in itself is your strike vote authorization the IBT does not want to see. They lose all control to the rank file when we vote like that.
 
GO you brought up the fact that UPS added LNG tractors to there fleet, the VERY important fact that you left out was that it was done with taxpayer money
 
Homesick said:
[QUOTE
Lastly, the stock has lost over 400 percent in value the last 5 years. It is delusion to argue they have done this purposely. The major stockholders like mr. Young, Judy and Roy have lost Millions in personal income that will only be recovered if the stock price goes to 45 again. You will not find any of the most bullish stock analyst predicting half of that price. Corporations only lie about earnings to drive a stock up not down.
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Nothumbleenough, I disagree that it is delusional for management to drive the price of a stock down. This is done for several reasons. Short sellers hope a stock’s price goes down so they can cover their short with less $$$. Investors hope a stock will price go down so they can get in at a better price for the long haul. Day traders want a stock’s price to fall so they can buy it on a dip and sell higher that day. Jim Cramer, at CNBC and The Street, recommends buying on the dips. Many other analyses recommend waiting for a stock’s price to drop before buying and not to chase a stock when it is rising. Look at Dell and Michaels Dell’s bid to take the stock private, do you think Michael would not like the price of Dell to fall so that he can buy it cheaper before taking it private? And, please keep in mind that the stock holders you mentioned only have a loss if they sell their stock.[/QUOTE]


First off, understand the allegation is against the management of ABC and ABF so what a day-trader or option-trader might do is not pertinent to our discussion about management purposely tanking the stock.

Secondly, tanking a stock to drive down its share price in hopes of purshasing those at reduced costs is a slight possibility and the precedent of Dell is a good example. However, this is extremely unlikely due to the funding requirements the capital markets provide for ABC. At Dell the person principally trying to take the company private is Michael Dell who happens to be one of the richest men in America and would not face such funding issues. Additionally, the SEC is getting involved to protect shareholder value (at Dell) in case such a conflict develops. Here at ABF the stock price destruction has already taken place and not a peep from the SEC.
 
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canaryinthemine said:
You're going to wear a coarse brown hooded robe with a rope belt? And sandals? Where do you get steel-toed sandals?
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You and I cut our teeth on an outdated document created by an extinct agency. That would be the ICC Rules and Regulations, which required us to wear leather non-open toed shoes, seatbelts and such. Today pink sandals and red socks seem to be perfectly acceptable. As is holding one's pants up by spreading of the knees. Have you seen to price of boots, belts and suspenders lately? Since I will be groveling to keep food on my table and a roof over my head appropriate attire will have drop a spot or two on my priority list.
 
ABFer said:
You and I cut our teeth on an outdated document created by an extinct agency. That would be the ICC Rules and Regulations, which required us to wear leather non-open toed shoes, seatbelts and such. Today pink sandals and red socks seem to be perfectly acceptable. As is holding one's pants up by spreading of the knees. Have you seen to price of boots, belts and suspenders lately? Since I will be groveling to keep food on my table and a roof over my head appropriate attire will have drop a spot or two on my priority list.
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I hear you, Brother. Besides,... a rope belt is a lot easier to tighten in lean times. And.....in desperate times, a quick and easy noose.........Yes, I think fashion will change. You're right about fashion in the working world, too. Any casual visit to a truck stop nowadays, would leave one to wonder if Ringling Bros. decided to stop and fuel their trucks. Don't get me started on how professional people should look "professional". Pajama pants, flip-flops, and a pink sleeveless T-shirt that didn't quite cover a hairy 300 lb. belly, came crawling out of a long-haul cab the other day.....I still get queasy thinking about ......ummm...."him"..
 
Stoney said:
Can't take it? If I couldn't take it, I wouldn't be posting here. Here's the difference. First I posted my opinions, attacking no one. The narrowminded drones returned with replys of attacks. Then and only then did I return with some silly insults.

And then there are tools like you that flat out lied about what I said. You kept claiming I said if ABF doesn't get a contract they need that ABF will completely go under. I never said any such thing. I was replying to member who made that claim, showed you the quote multiple times, and you're still not man to admit the mistake or admit you got caught in a lie.

Last night, I had a civil back and forth Double Barrel. He disagreed with me, but no insults or lies were exchanged by either side. That's what I expect from my so called union brothers.
But nope! What do many of my so called union brothers do? Called me management, stonehead, or whatever. Instead of having a discussion and in the end agreeing to disagree.
I've lost more respect for many of my so called union brothers because of such ignorant, childish rhetoric.
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Waaaaa put on your big boy pants
 
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