Another Oak H Blunder

And to all of the management drones on here, spouting their tired old anti-union "information"... it isn't working and you are not impressing anyone with your doom-and-gloom and tired old rhetoric.

I understand that is all you have to do these days, what with bill counts still being low and all... not much supervisin' to be done, is there? Actually, I'd be watching over your own shoulders. Dead weight is usually the first to be cut loose when finances get shaky... LOL!

Obviousley it's not working and i respect your position. I came here not affiliated with Oak harbor. Just interested in the discussion as a 3rd party.

I'm just looking at the economics of today, and how (in my opinion) blind some teamsters are. I am not picking out anyone specific here, so please don't blast me for that.

Life is about choices... and your willingness to accept the consequences of those choices. I hope you all are making the right choice, or at least willing to accept the consequences.

I'm not looking for you to prove your choice to me... I'm just saying...
 
The economics of today will change tomorrow, and the economics of tomorrow will not be those of yesterday. Economics is a fluid science, because our society and our technology are a constantly shifting backdrop.

Unions provide a stabilizing force in the constant ebb and flow of power and leverage between labor and management. The collective bargaining process is at the heart of the matter, by allowing labor to use the same tools as management to achieve the greatest good for the greatest number.

No one claims that the entire process is perfect, and indeed, it has glaring loopholes in some respects. When the governmental bodies that oversee this process (i.e. the National Labor Relations Board, etc.) tilt too much in favor to one side of the other, it can throw the entire process off. Since these regulatory bodies are made up of presidential appointees at the top levels, the influences and predilections of these entities can shift from one election cycle to the next, depending on which party holds the the top office.

Union leaders understand as well as anybody, if not better, the risks inherent in a labor stoppage. But when all other avenues are exhausted, the withholding of labor by the union workers is the last and only real recourse a union has. Of course, there are huge risks in engaging in a strike, and it is often a double-edged sword. But compared to the tools and weapons a company can often muster in such a fight, the union's toolbox is fairly limited.

In the end, many union workers understand far better than their non-union counterparts about the fact that collective bargaining has risks and rewards. The success of any collective bargaining negotiation has as much to do with how resolute that workforce is going into the negotiations, and how far they are willing to back up the promise with the threat of a strike.

Union workers have kept the bar high for American workers as a whole, even while their membership levels have dropped over the years. Again, this is not due to worker disenfranchisement with the union process, but because of a wholesale effort by corporate business interests to remove what they view as a hindrance to bigger profits and increased shareholder value. The fact that those fat profits and enhanced share prices often come at the sacrifice of good benefits and stagnant wages is often overlooked and undervalued by many on Wall Street and in Washington DC.

And yet, without a strong middle class with stable jobs and stable incomes, we are merely setting the stage for what is coming to pass right before our eyes. There is little doubt that we are undermining our own economic security in this country by negotiating uneven trade deals, allowing unregulated or poorly regulated investments, and doing little to stop good jobs from leaving this country while low-income service-sector jobs become the predominant option for displaced workers.

Unions have no interest in seeing corporate America go out of business, Unions are in the business of people, simply put. If there are no jobs and no business... there are no unions. But what unions have done and will do well into the foreseeable future is to level out the playing field and to create a counterbalance to the corporate interests that have reigned for too long.

Greed... is not good.

Not for America, and certainly not for the American middle class. Unions have a role to play here in struggling to maintain a strong and vibrant middle class, but it is a battle they have been slowly losing for decades. Anybody who cheer leads for the end of unions is simply playing blindly into the hands of those forces who want to see a return to the culture of a minority rich aristocracy which holds ultimate power and sway over a population of serfs and indentured servants.

That is where we are heading if we allow one side of the power balance between labor and corporate interests to simply fade into nothingness...
 
The economics of today will change tomorrow, and the economics of tomorrow will not be those of yesterday. Economics is a fluid science, because our society and our technology are a constantly shifting backdrop.

Unions provide a stabilizing force in the constant ebb and flow of power and leverage between labor and management. The collective bargaining process is at the heart of the matter, by allowing labor to use the same tools as management to achieve the greatest good for the greatest number.

No one claims that the entire process is perfect, and indeed, it has glaring loopholes in some respects. When the governmental bodies that oversee this process (i.e. the National Labor Relations Board, etc.) tilt too much in favor to one side of the other, it can throw the entire process off. Since these regulatory bodies are made up of presidential appointees at the top levels, the influences and predilections of these entities can shift from one election cycle to the next, depending on which party holds the the top office.

Union leaders understand as well as anybody, if not better, the risks inherent in a labor stoppage. But when all other avenues are exhausted, the withholding of labor by the union workers is the last and only real recourse a union has. Of course, there are huge risks in engaging in a strike, and it is often a double-edged sword. But compared to the tools and weapons a company can often muster in such a fight, the union's toolbox is fairly limited.

In the end, many union workers understand far better than their non-union counterparts about the fact that collective bargaining has risks and rewards. The success of any collective bargaining negotiation has as much to do with how resolute that workforce is going into the negotiations, and how far they are willing to back up the promise with the threat of a strike.

Union workers have kept the bar high for American workers as a whole, even while their membership levels have dropped over the years. Again, this is not due to worker disenfranchisement with the union process, but because of a wholesale effort by corporate business interests to remove what they view as a hindrance to bigger profits and increased shareholder value. The fact that those fat profits and enhanced share prices often come at the sacrifice of good benefits and stagnant wages is often overlooked and undervalued by many on Wall Street and in Washington DC.

And yet, without a strong middle class with stable jobs and stable incomes, we are merely setting the stage for what is coming to pass right before our eyes. There is little doubt that we are undermining our own economic security in this country by negotiating uneven trade deals, allowing unregulated or poorly regulated investments, and doing little to stop good jobs from leaving this country while low-income service-sector jobs become the predominant option for displaced workers.

Unions have no interest in seeing corporate America go out of business, Unions are in the business of people, simply put. If there are no jobs and no business... there are no unions. But what unions have done and will do well into the foreseeable future is to level out the playing field and to create a counterbalance to the corporate interests that have reigned for too long.

Greed... is not good.

Not for America, and certainly not for the American middle class. Unions have a role to play here in struggling to maintain a strong and vibrant middle class, but it is a battle they have been slowly losing for decades. Anybody who cheer leads for the end of unions is simply playing blindly into the hands of those forces who want to see a return to the culture of a minority rich aristocracy which holds ultimate power and sway over a population of serfs and indentured servants.

That is where we are heading if we allow one side of the power balance between labor and corporate interests to simply fade into nothingness...

Well said. I agree and disagree, but would like to commend you on your post.
 
Actually you are right the 'Real Teamsters' will prevail, but not because they are right about anything or truly care for the working people who they represent, they could care less about you... is because the "real Teamsters are monsters and cowards and deal in anything that is illegal. They bully, intimidate, lie, beat up anyone that does not agree with them and even murder. Their history speaks for itself. The upper loops that represent you make more money than you even when you are working. When you are on strike you don't get paid much, you could not survive on what you get from the "Real Teamsters Union" But the upper crust who represent you are always getting a big salary.
The teamsters are a big joke and so is everything they stand for...

And they are not needed or wanted. I feel sorry for you because you have been so brainwashed.

This man is not going anywhere. Oh and JEALOUSY just does not become you. The VP's are not spoiled brats, but real men with good hearts and good values. Sure can't say that about the "real teamsters" Get a life will you.

nice comments, not! come back to reallity, good hearts good values B***S***! B***S***! again. I give all credit to Henry he built this company he worked it and then he oversaw it. He is the real man with the real heart and values. HE treated the employees with respect! The boys have no hearts, why would they let those loyal employees who WORKED the frt sit out on strike for over 5 months? we do the work we fix dispatch errors we fix billing errors we fix pickup problems we fix delivery problems we helped build this company we have a stake in it's survival. we want it to thrive. all we want is to be treated fairly. the boys did not build this company they were not out in the trucks hauling freight they only oversee the operations OTHER people do. real men do not try to cheat people out of basic decent needs, no sick pay, less retirement, less medical, loss of medical after working for years for them. that is not a GOOD person
 
we do the work we fix dispatch errors we fix billing errors we fix pickup problems we fix delivery problems we helped build this company we have a stake in it's survival. we want it to thrive. all we want is to be treated fairly. the boys did not build this company they were not out in the trucks hauling freight they only oversee the operations OTHER people do. real men do not try to cheat people out of basic decent needs, no sick pay, less retirement, less medical, loss of medical after working for years for them. that is not a GOOD person

Becuase YOU are the employee. THat's the deal.. you do the work, and they pay you. You obviousley believe what you did is some amazing feat. You DID YOUR JOB!!! Geez, get off you high horse. They are the bosses, you are the employee. You work, they put you to work. It's really very simple. Stop acting like you did something so amazing by fixing errors or hauling the freight.

Sick Pay is not a right. Free (To You) Medical Coverage is not a right. Your retirement is YOUR responsibility, not the company. If they used to provide, thank them, if they can't afford it anymore, you should be willing to help yourself out.

And dont revert back to the millions they make. I will point you back to my previous post about profitability. Or you can research it.

You should be looking at how can I work WITH them, instead of just demanding what you THINK you DESERVE.

UAW ring a bell?
 
Before you post, you might consider getting your facts correct. If you look at the history of GM, Chrysler and Ford, it was management errors that led them to where they are now. It was not the necessity of paying their workers fairly. Every time managers make poor decisions, they want to blame it on the workers, while they themselves have made continual judgement errors. Union companies would not be in trouble like they are, if they did not have managers that made their decisions based on self profit and longevity rather than the companies best long term interests. The one common management theme in publicly traded companies is management cutting the companies to edge, while they pay off shareholders enough to keep themselves in a job. Then everyone walks away rich except the employees, who simply end up without a job. At least unions help make sure the workers received a cut also.



Becuase YOU are the employee. THat's the deal.. you do the work, and they pay you. You obviousley believe what you did is some amazing feat. You DID YOUR JOB!!! Geez, get off you high horse. They are the bosses, you are the employee. You work, they put you to work. It's really very simple. Stop acting like you did something so amazing by fixing errors or hauling the freight.

Sick Pay is not a right. Free (To You) Medical Coverage is not a right. Your retirement is YOUR responsibility, not the company. If they used to provide, thank them, if they can't afford it anymore, you should be willing to help yourself out.

And dont revert back to the millions they make. I will point you back to my previous post about profitability. Or you can research it.

You should be looking at how can I work WITH them, instead of just demanding what you THINK you DESERVE.

UAW ring a bell?
 
Before you post, you might consider getting your facts correct. If you look at the history of GM, Chrysler and Ford, it was management errors that led them to where they are now. It was not the necessity of paying their workers fairly. Every time managers make poor decisions, they want to blame it on the workers, while they themselves have made continual judgement errors. Union companies would not be in trouble like they are, if they did not have managers that made their decisions based on self profit and longevity rather than the companies best long term interests. The one common management theme in publicly traded companies is management cutting the companies to edge, while they pay off shareholders enough to keep themselves in a job. Then everyone walks away rich except the employees, who simply end up without a job. At least unions help make sure the workers received a cut also.

LOL at you telling me to get facts. Cite YOUR sources
 
All you have to do is look at reality. I could go through and cite 50 different sources of information to support my position if I wanted to waste my time on you. I could quote movies, major news network special investigations and target specific groups on autos to name a few.

BTW. Your post is in violation of rule 3.

3. Do not resort to childish name calling if someone has a view you do not agree with, attack the subject of a post, not the one who posted it.


LOL at you telling me to get facts. Cite YOUR sources or ----
 
nice comments, not! come back to reallity, good hearts good values B***S***! B***S***! again. I give all credit to Henry he built this company he worked it and then he oversaw it. He is the real man with the real heart and values. HE treated the employees with respect! The boys have no hearts, why would they let those loyal employees who WORKED the frt sit out on strike for over 5 months? we do the work we fix dispatch errors we fix billing errors we fix pickup problems we fix delivery problems we helped build this company we have a stake in it's survival. we want it to thrive. all we want is to be treated fairly. the boys did not build this company they were not out in the trucks hauling freight they only oversee the operations OTHER people do. real men do not try to cheat people out of basic decent needs, no sick pay, less retirement, less medical, loss of medical after working for years for them. that is not a GOOD person

Everything I said was truth. Remember if you are one of the employees that work for OAKH that is what you are an employee and you are paid for the job to do. They are the owners and your boss. Not the other way around. Things change due to the strike and less business, they may not be able to afford all you and others feel u are entitled to at this time. Other companies, even school districts and big hospitals have stopped some of the benefits and upped the insurance cost where it comes out of pocket per employee, where in the past schools and hospital, they paid for it as a benefit for their employees. Oakh is not the only one who has cut back it is all over the USA.
 
LOL at you telling me to get facts. Cite YOUR sources

If, as you said in an earlier post, you came here as an outside observer, maybe you need to tone down your posts a little as you don't seem to have all the facts, as this has been going on a long time, and you seem to be a fairly new member, with a very low post count, which adds or detracts to your credibility. So tone it down and add your opinion civilly. Thanks.
 
Becuase YOU are the employee. THat's the deal.. you do the work, and they pay you. You obviousley believe what you did is some amazing feat. You DID YOUR JOB!!! Geez, get off you high horse. They are the bosses, you are the employee. You work, they put you to work. It's really very simple. Stop acting like you did something so amazing by fixing errors or hauling the freight.

Sick Pay is not a right. Free (To You) Medical Coverage is not a right. Your retirement is YOUR responsibility, not the company. If they used to provide, thank them, if they can't afford it anymore, you should be willing to help yourself out.

And dont revert back to the millions they make. I will point you back to my previous post about profitability. Or you can research it.

You should be looking at how can I work WITH them, instead of just demanding what you THINK you DESERVE.

UAW ring a bell?

was never in my job description to fix errors made by management or office personell they are just things that we did to make our day run smoother maybe we shouldnt have been doing that little bit extra for ohfl but again when we let management know about the mistakes they are to quick to point fingers instead of correcting the issue god forbid if we were to make any mistakes (which does happen from time to time) they are even quicker to hand out discipline letters. as for health care,retirement,and sick pay rights under our last contract they were considered rights and we just want to maintain those rights and the quality of care that our teamster health care provided i have seen their plan it is too exspensive to use,purchase,and doesnt cover near as much as our current plan did times might be tough but keep in mind that this all started befor the economy went belly up. it would've been different if they asked us to take concessions during tough economic times like yrc did but the strike has ruined that option for them. for an outside third party viewer you sound like mngmnt or co. attourney very quick to take co. side very slow to provide accourate info and or sources
 
Everything I said was truth. Remember if you are one of the employees that work for OAKH that is what you are an employee and you are paid for the job to do. They are the owners and your boss. Not the other way around. Things change due to the strike and less business, they may not be able to afford all you and others feel u are entitled to at this time. Other companies, even school districts and big hospitals have stopped some of the benefits and upped the insurance cost where it comes out of pocket per employee, where in the past schools and hospital, they paid for it as a benefit for their employees. Oakh is not the only one who has cut back it is all over the USA.

truth my a**. yes they are the boss but come on. it is completely stupid to assume they cannot afford it. spend 100 million to fight or spend 50 million on the contract costs, from a business stand point the second option is best. it would have cost ohfl less money if they just left things alone. there is no demand for what we think we are entitled to. why do you think America has got to this point. wealthy corporate owners and managers who cry about high cost of labor and send their business overseas. everyone is doing it because THEY CAN! no one has the b***s to fight them. the mentality that you have is the reason they are getting away with it. do you people not see the future consequences of all this? yes i get paid to do a job, but if we as drivers only did "our job" very little would actually get accomplished. it is because we create a working relationship with the customers by doing more than our job that the company grows. if management and supervisors got in trouble for every misstep THEY did we would have a new management crew every month.
 
truth my a**. yes they are the boss but come on. it is completely stupid to assume they cannot afford it. spend 100 million to fight or spend 50 million on the contract costs, from a business stand point the second option is best. it would have cost ohfl less money if they just left things alone. there is no demand for what we think we are entitled to. why do you think America has got to this point. wealthy corporate owners and managers who cry about high cost of labor and send their business overseas. everyone is doing it because THEY CAN! no one has the b***s to fight them. the mentality that you have is the reason they are getting away with it. do you people not see the future consequences of all this? yes i get paid to do a job, but if we as drivers only did "our job" very little would actually get accomplished. it is because we create a working relationship with the customers by doing more than our job that the company grows. if management and supervisors got in trouble for every misstep THEY did we would have a new management crew every month.

You were not under paid in salary...that is part of your job befriending the customers. They own the business you are the employee and the company is doing what it deems fair that they can afford at this time in benefits. And that does not put cost/harm on the company as a whole.
 
If, as you said in an earlier post, you came here as an outside observer, maybe you need to tone down your posts a little as you don't seem to have all the facts, as this has been going on a long time, and you seem to be a fairly new member, with a very low post count, which adds or detracts to your credibility. So tone it down and add your opinion civilly. Thanks.

I understand... i'm not in the cool club. However, if moderators are allowed to state their opinion as fact with no citation, and then tell me my opinion needs to be based on fact, I see an issue with it. But, like i said, I'm not a moderator, and I don't have the power to sway the direction of the forum with unsubstantiated "facts"

Vwaggs, I did not call you a childish name, so i did not violate a rule. I used an acronym to state... if you tell me to do something, that you are not doing, I say "be quiet" (in a different choice of words) If you were offended by my acronym, I apologize.

Moderating should not contain bias. But I see the territory and read the direction of this forum. It is hardly non-biased. I guess I expected to see willingness to hear a differreing viewpoint than the one celebrated here.

Finally, I would like to refer to my response another poster where i commended his post, even though I disagreed with the content. Mostly because i wasn't told not to post with out "facts". And probably because he wasn't a "moderator"

I will "tone it down" and keep my views from hurting the delicate sensabilites of the chosen.

And by the way, my post gets edited, while others get allowed?? It's pretty damn obvious what S*** is referring to. The little ***'s don't do anything to alter the message. But complete deletion does. I think that calling someone a S*** violates rule #3 more than telling someone to stfu
 
Vwaggs made his 1st comments as a poster, on the union side, not a moderator. There are plenty of dissenters and supporters here. Pick your side, follow the rules, and let me do the moderating and we'll have no problems.
 
Is this your humble attempt not to look like the misinformed individual you seem to be? You can play all the little games you want with yourself. I don't bite on trolling. As far as what you told me to do, whether you like it or not, it does violate the rules. I suggest you try reading them and taking them to heart in your posts. You can whine and cry about being the injured party, its actually a funny change from the aggressive type you were playing the other day. I guess you change demeanor and tactics like a chameleon, to always appear to be the one in the right. I'll give you a clue though. There are thousands of members here, union and non, that know I'm fair and straight forward. I certainly don't need to waste my time defending myself to you. Come back and see me when you have established ANY real credibility and we can take up your games again from there.



I understand... i'm not in the cool club. However, if moderators are allowed to state their opinion as fact with no citation, and then tell me my opinion needs to be based on fact, I see an issue with it. But, like i said, I'm not a moderator, and I don't have the power to sway the direction of the forum with unsubstantiated "facts"

Vwaggs, I did not call you a childish name, so i did not violate a rule. I used an acronym to state... if you tell me to do something, that you are not doing, I say "be quiet" (in a different choice of words) If you were offended by my acronym, I apologize.

Moderating should not contain bias. But I see the territory and read the direction of this forum. It is hardly non-biased. I guess I expected to see willingness to hear a differreing viewpoint than the one celebrated here.

Finally, I would like to refer to my response another poster where i commended his post, even though I disagreed with the content. Mostly because i wasn't told not to post with out "facts". And probably because he wasn't a "moderator"

I will "tone it down" and keep my views from hurting the delicate sensabilites of the chosen.

And by the way, my post gets edited, while others get allowed?? It's pretty damn obvious what S*** is referring to. The little ***'s don't do anything to alter the message. But complete deletion does. I think that calling someone a S*** violates rule #3 more than telling someone to stfu
 
You were not under paid in salary...that is part of your job befriending the customers. They own the business you are the employee and the company is doing what it deems fair that they can afford at this time in benefits. And that does not put cost/harm on the company as a whole.

BS again they can still afford it even now I do not believe they are hurting financially. I get paid to deliver and pick up frt not befreind the customers. I did not see that in the company handbook. I get paid a good wage to raise my family but when big business starts to push around the workers its time to fight. I cannot believe the mentality of you people. They were able to afford more than status quo but they chose to spent all that money to try and eliminate the union from their company. that was their poor business decision.
 
You were not under paid in salary...that is part of your job befriending the customers. They own the business you are the employee and the company is doing what it deems fair that they can afford at this time in benefits. And that does not put cost/harm on the company as a whole.

# one according to the industry we are a little underpaid. second it is the salesmans job to "befreind the customer" my job is clearly defined as to deliver and pick ur freight while operating a commercial vehicle third what the company deems fair or not isnt relevant to this issue being that we have a collective bargaining procedure in place when they decided to not negotiate is when the problems started and then the ulp's followed their choice to let us go on strike for 5 months did more HARM than just negotiating a fair contract that EVERYONE can benefit from. look at pennisula they didnt waste any time on getting a contract ratified and their business levels didnt drop dramatically ohfl has made some poor decisions and would like to blame their employees and the union for it
 
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