"...Look Shifterknob, you want to call me out for a chip? You my friend, no matter how well you type your inane banter, are at best, dilusional... Your first dilusion, is to dare compare yourself or your meager little strike, to the honorable soldiers that have died in World Wars, or to compare Union leadership to the honorable miltary leaders that had to make the toughest decisions possible and send soldiers to die..."
Well, maybe I'm being "dilusional" here (a word I wasn't aware existed in the English lexicon, but which apparently means I'm extremely watered-down), but I wasn't exactly making a direct comparison between union members or union leaders and soldiers. I think my point escaped you completely (and really... am I surprised?), which was talking about leadership.
However, that point being made, I do think there are parallels, as union members have fought and DIED for rights that crud-pickers like you take for granted.
I would also point out that Teamsters and other union members are still Americans, and many have- and are- fighting for this country's freedom abroad. In addition, they have also fought at home on the battlefront of labor law to defend our rights granted us under the Constitution and federal labor law, that while continually are under attack and indanger of being undermined, exist to protect ALL workers... even the ones like you too dim to grasp their significance or relevence!
"...Unions profit off of putting it's members at risk, and call it fighting for you. Military leaders do what they do for a much more noble cause, and for you to compare them is sickening. Your battle for the brotherhood, is nothing compared to the battles fought for the country..."
A fight for a principle is still a fight for a principle, and blood has been shed by union members and lives sacrificed in order to defend our inalienable rights under the law of the land. Whether we are fighting a Fascist dictator or a greedy CEO, the fight is defined by the principles being fought over, and I am proud to have stood along with my brothers and sisters and helped to, in some small way, fight the good fight.
Your perception of what unions are is both flawed and sad, and shows at heart your basic ignorance of the law and history. I am not going to waste my time trying to convince someone as obiously thick-headed as you where the errors of your reasoning are.
"...Second, I don't care how long you have been on this board, or what your "Status" has been. I have lived through strikes and I have been on both sides and came out of the experiences with a true understanding of the behind the scenes playbook. I came here to share MY PERSONAL views and don't need you to tell me what I can and can't say. Kick me off the board, delete my posts, I don't care, my life will go on. But don't silence the message because you don't agree with it. If you really care about your union brothers, let them see both sides and make their own decisions. Or is your leadership style tell them what they should think? Facist? Communist? Dictatorship?..."
Ah, I see the chip on your shoulder has swelled to enormous proportions, threatening to knock you completely off the straight and narrow path of reason and logic.
How sad for you.
Your personal views are no more divinely inspired than mine or anyone else's, my friend. I certainly don't get very upset if someone disagrees with me, but neither do I give up the debate. I just thought it was interesting how you choose to come into a forum where you seem to have nothing at stake, pick fights with posters and moderators, and when someone like myself who has been a member of this board for a long time tries to give you a little advice on how to handle yourself, you jump up on your proverbial soapbox and begin spouting off like a martyr facing a firing squad.
Save it... it impresses no one, and you merely look foolish and petty.
And on the note of union leadership... we believe in democracy. Our leaders are elected, and our important decisions are voted on by the rank-and-file. I don't remember getting to vote David VP as Co-President, nor has he ever come to me and asked me to vote on his major business decisions. So just which is the democracy, and which is the Fascist state?
"...As i have read, your ULP's were bogus and denied. You spent 157 days on the street and all you can tell me is that it was for a higher purpose? PLEASE tell me what you gained?..."
Well, you read wrong. Shocking.
Of the original four ULP's that were filed, one was denied, and three were upheld. The later charge of Surface Bargaining was lost, appealed, and lost on appeal. There are multiple ULP's filed since the union went back to work, and they are in the process of being investigated as we speak. Having done our research, we are looking very good on these new ULP's, and I think the company is facing a great deal of heat in the very near future...
"...Finally, you call me a coward? I disagree. But I don't have to justify myself to you. I don't have to tell you about the times I fired my weapon, in two seperate engagements, in defense of your ability to call me a coward.
You promote a democracy where the masses are told what to do for their leadership.
I promote a democracy based on freedom, where soldiers are soldiers, and truck drivers are truck drivers. One carries out orders, the other delivers orders. One risks his or her life, the other punches a clock in some american city safe because of the soldier, and in your case, walks away when the job benefits don't please him, trying to hurt his company financially to get what he wants.
For you to think they are the same, is pitiful. And before you tell me how important truck drivers are, I know, i am one and my career relies on them. But I have also been a soldier, and the 2 are nothing alike..."
Again, my befuddled friend, you completely miss the point. Lose the almighty chip on your shoulder, and get over it. Many Teamsters have fought in American conflicts, and some have died. When you put on a military uniform, you are no longer union or non-union... you are a soldier.
On the other hand, there are similarities between soldiers going to war for a principle like freedom, and union members engaging in a struggle for justice and to protect their rights. I'm not claiming that they are a direct comparison... but in the end, a battle over principle is the same whether it is military in nature, or fought on the street and in the courtroom.
"...You have been measured Shifterknob, and you have failed.
Unfortunately, your (and the union's) failure has hurt the working man that you claim you represent. I hope the masses really see the truth about this.
You say they want to bust the Union, why wouldn't they when they saw a good portion of their workforce walk away for bogus claims by a 3rd party of ULP's? 157 days! Charges denied! How about you file for back pay from the Union for leading you to strike for reasons that were false?..."
You know, if you had any valid knowledge of what was going on or the facts, you might be a soeone worth debating with. As it is, you are throwing out non-factual information, and basing your entire argument on your opinion and specious and wrong information.
Our "masses" voted to go on strike. They knew what was at stake, and most of them stood up like real American men and women, and fought an employer who sought to break their spirits and break their union.
By my opinion, they are judged heros in my book. I don't give a crap how you say I have been judged, because I wasn't important in the first place, and never claimed to be. The ones who stood up and fought are all heros to me, and always will be, and I will never forget their bravery and their fortitude and their faith in their beliefs.
The ones who crossed and betrayed us I will also never forget or forgive. They are forever etched in my mind as traitorous scum who crawled on their bellies to lick the bootheels of their masters, like the slaves they are...
You aren't worthy to judge me, or anyone else who stood out on a picket line. You are a slave in your heart, shackled and chained, and you only have yourself to blame for that fact...
"...But you will probably tell me I'm wrong again, and you all stood for a principle. And i'm a coward for not agreeing. The bravest thing anyone could have done was to go against the Union in this case. Can't you see that? The brave thing was to stand alone and say, I don't agree with the Union, I am staying with my employer in opposition to my co-workers. They knew one day you would be back. They knew they would be ridiculed. They knew the Union would blacklist them. But they had the courage to cross YOUR line and go to the job.
Maybe you were the scared one, afraid to go against the Union? I Wonder..."
I voted for the strike, as did most of my fellow employees. The union didn't hold a gun to my head or anyone else's head and force us out. We went out with our heads high and our eyes open, and with a clear heart and conscience.
I know that for someone like you... a slave, I mean... that such a concept would be alien and scary, but most of us have no problem standing up for our rights and for a greater principle of good.
It was- and is- a good fight. When a Native American was in a battle, he would often say, "It is a good day to die". He didn't say that because he was suicidal. He said that because he knew that some fights were worth fighting, and that as long as his spirit, his mind, and his body were in harmony, he would fight to the death for what he believed in.
Some people run and never fight, because they believe in nothing. Some people stand up and fight for the greater good, because we believe in things greater than ourselves, and because, if we didn't...
Who would?
