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ABF | Concession Bargaining - How Not To

Mr. Zollar's job was not only to wreck the NMFA, but to drive a wedge between the Teamsters employed by different companies. The implicit threat is that if we're all back together, the YRC guys would outnumber the ABF guys, and will jam down a substandard contract down our throat. I had a management guy tell me that. That'll be the strategy. Make sure the Teamsters never group back together. Bunch of different Unions, instead of one unified Union. Easy to play one group off against the other. every contract will be concessionary because there will always be a group of Teamsters with lower wages and benefits than you. We'll continually chase our collective tail downward.
 
ABFer said:
For some reason I don't think Nationsway was under the same contract. I never knew what they had but I do not think it was NMFA.
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I think they signed a me too agreement. Long time ago. When you've been through as many carriers as I have, things can get blurred lol.
 
canaryinthemine said:
Mr. Zollar's job was not only to wreck the NMFA, but to drive a wedge between the Teamsters employed by different companies. The implicit threat is that if we're all back together, the YRC guys would outnumber the ABF guys, and will jam down a substandard contract down our throat. I had a management guy tell me that. That'll be the strategy. Make sure the Teamsters never group back together. Bunch of different Unions, instead of one unified Union. Easy to play one group off against the other. every contract will be concessionary because there will always be a group of Teamsters with lower wages and benefits than you. We'll continually chase our collective tail downward.
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You should a had this discussion with the IBT a couple of years back...after all...us ABF Teamsters are not the ones responsible for this...are they? Tell me...who are the ones responsible? And now...you are saying that the ABF Teamsters should take the risk of a future subcontract to put things back all together again...right?
 
crazy said:
As far as "it was a bluff" goes I was referring to Newpenn not the overall picture of YRC..Salespeople were going around and asking Joe and they found out that if they were to shut Newpenn down they would have lost about 90% of the business..Now that was 90% of profitable business something that YRC had to think about..Like a polka game the members caved first..As far as ABF goes and this is their thread,ABF is nowhere close in financial dire straights like YRC was..We had a loser running the company and they seem to have smart business people running the show..

Whatever happened to if one party votes it down they go back to the table..You are now and like you did in the past stating that if ABF workers vote no to concessions it is over for them..

Facts :bowdown: Joe :bowdown: Facts
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They wouldn't make that threat and not shut you down if you didn't agree to concessions..they were in big trouble. ABF will be around after the vote even if concessions are rejected. They will also do what YRC did after the vote on concessions..gut the system.

The only brains needed to cut cost is to reduce fleet, manpower and terminals. ABF is no different or smarter then YRC. The costs to running a national network can't be compared to costs of a regional carrier..two different animals. When did you ever see a renegotiation after a contract vote before?
 
et another
Joe the plumber said:
They wouldn't make that threat and not shut you down if you didn't agree to concessions..they were in big trouble. ABF will be around after the vote even if concessions are rejected. They will also do what YRC did after the vote on concessions..gut the system.

The only brains needed to cut cost is to reduce fleet, manpower and terminals. ABF is no different or smarter then YRC. The costs to running a national network can't be compared to costs of a regional carrier..two different animals. When did you ever see a renegotiation after a contract vote before?
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Yet another useless post....
 
canaryinthemine said:
There could be a good case made that Mr. Zollars was making a planned effort to break the NMFA with the ATA's blessing. If that's the case, it wouldn't matter how profitable, or non-profitable the purchased companies were, the plan would be to run them into the ground to ruin the conditions of the NMFA. The only way to do that would be to deliberatly mis-manage the companies in order to terrorize the employees to get a vote to break up the NMFA. "Profitability" really never entered into the picture, "Deception" was the order of the day. ABF's contract talks will be distinctly different for a number of reasons. I can see maybe a contract extension in our future, but no strike or lockout. Mr. Zollars did the job he was hired to do, and now he's moved on. Anyone notice how nervous ABF management gets when there's talk of a two year agreement coinciding with the end of YRC's MOA's? If that would happen, wouldn't that defeat all of Mr. Zollar's "hard work" to destroy the NMFA?
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I have not noticed this but am intrigued. Where is it being shown? As I see it the ABF rank and file has more to worry about with such a move than management does.
canaryinthemine, hooking us up with YRC at this point would be like telling me to move my house into the ghetto lands and trying to convince me that it would be better for me. No offense intended to the YRC personnel-just an analogy.
 
ABFer said:
I have not noticed this but am intrigued. Where is it being shown? As I see it the ABF rank and file has more to worry about with such a move than management does.
canaryinthemine, hooking us up with YRC at this point would be like telling me to move my house into the ghetto lands and trying to convince me that it would be better for me. No offense intended to the YRC personnel-just an analogy.
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Sorry about taking so long. Brother ABFer,....holidays...but I believe that was one of the contract proposals that ABF flatly rejected, About a month ago, we here at 310 had two V.P. stop in to "canvass" how the mood was. Being Steward, they wanted to talk to me , thinking I have some sort of influence over our guys. The conversation turned to length of contract, and when I mentioned 2 years, both were adamant that ABF should never line up with YRC. I didn't bring that up, they did. Interesting. All I know is that, come April, we'll probably have 3 contracted groups of Teamsters doing the same work for different pay and benefits. ABF, YRC, and UPS Freight. I think that 10 years from now....(which I shouldn't have to worry about. I should be gone by then.).......10 years from now, you might have Teamsters crossing Teamster's picket lines, because one group is on strike, and the other two aren't. All three will get their revenue from the same freight pool, so competition will be fierce.......and continuously pushing us down...in the name of "competition". And.....No, Brother Docker, it's not our fault.......it's not even the fault of a little less than half of YRC's employees. Our leadership....as it were...kind of fell down. I've said it before, for a while now, and in letters to the IBT, that bargaining such atrocious MOU's was either criminally incompetent,....or criminally complicit. Probably why they never answered me.
 
A goal for realignment of bargaining groups sounds like a great goal to me but not right now and I am not optimistic about YRC. You are right on target with the three (or two) different contracts vying for the same freight being problematic.
 
canaryinthemine said:
There could be a good case made that Mr. Zollars was making a planned effort to break the NMFA with the ATA's blessing. If that's the case, it wouldn't matter how profitable, or non-profitable the purchased companies were, the plan would be to run them into the ground to ruin the conditions of the NMFA. The only way to do that would be to deliberatly mis-manage the companies in order to terrorize the employees to get a vote to break up the NMFA. "Profitability" really never entered into the picture, "Deception" was the order of the day. ABF's contract talks will be distinctly different for a number of reasons. I can see maybe a contract extension in our future, but no strike or lockout. Mr. Zollars did the job he was hired to do, and now he's moved on. Anyone notice how nervous ABF management gets when there's talk of a two year agreement coinciding with the end of YRC's MOA's? If that would happen, wouldn't that defeat all of Mr. Zollar's "hard work" to destroy the NMFA?
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There is nothing like checking here to learn what top reliable, verifiable information from a top conspiracy theorist like yourself is thinking. I mean a man of your stature
Mr canaryinthemine. This is kinda like ABfer grade material

A couple of notes: Given that borrowing heavily to expand was always a Roadway-Yellow strategy for growth..the purpose of the latest acquisitions was the pursuit of dominance in the ltl industry, reduce capacity..reduce competition for the same freight etc. Holland, New Penn, Roadway and Yellow were picking each other apart at the same time competing with ABF and the non's. Things didn't go as planned. FedEx has succeeded at dominating the industry. Zollars failed..so whoopsy do doll on that. The union bargained Zollars's job for concessions so we have concesions but no more Zollars

YRC does not hands/on manage Holland or New Penn who by the way are quite profitable. YRC was close..very close to liquidation. It was no joke. They should not be here given the debt, merge problems/recession that cost them billions of lost business. Concessions were a no brainer

If Zollars's intent was to destroy the NMFA he would have sought bankruptcy protection to liquidate. YRC is still here. ABF has declared they want out of the NMFA but then they have been since '08. ABF teamsters are in a no better position bargaining on their own. There will be no contract extension. There will be damage. It could vary from slight to severe depending on how strong you thing your position is. Assuming you have a strong position is a 1..meaning severe damage
 
Joe the plumber said:
There is nothing like checking here to learn what top reliable, verifiable information from a top conspiracy theorist like yourself is thinking. I mean a man of your stature
Mr canaryinthemine. This is kinda like ABfer grade material

A couple of notes: Given that borrowing heavily to expand was always a Roadway-Yellow strategy for growth..the purpose of the latest acquisitions was the pursuit of dominance in the ltl industry, reduce capacity..reduce competition for the same freight etc. Holland, New Penn, Roadway and Yellow were picking each other apart at the same time competing with ABF and the non's. Things didn't go as planned. FedEx has succeeded at dominating the industry. Zollars failed..so whoopsy do doll on that. The union bargained Zollars's job for concessions so we have concesions but no more Zollars

YRC does not hands/on manage Holland or New Penn who by the way are quite profitable. YRC was close..very close to liquidation. It was no joke. They should not be here given the debt, merge problems/recession that cost them billions of lost business. Concessions were a no brainer

If Zollars's intent was to destroy the NMFA he would have sought bankruptcy protection to liquidate. YRC is still here. ABF has declared they want out of the NMFA but then they have been since '08. ABF teamsters are in a no better position bargaining on their own. There will be no contract extension. There will be damage. It could vary from slight to severe depending on how strong you thing your position is. Assuming you have a strong position is a 1..meaning severe damage
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What's the matter Joe...worrying about your pension again...I see...

What do you mean...there's nothing like checking here...you would be lost if you couldn't come here anymore...admit it...you live...just to come here!

Now...let's talk about Joe the plumber grade material:


SeeDickRun.jpg
 
Docker said:
What's the matter Joe...worrying about your pension again...I see...

What do you mean...there's nothing like checking here...you would be lost if you couldn't come here anymore...admit it...you live...just to come here!

Now...let's talk about Joe the plumber grade material:

SeeDickRun.jpg
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I think we know which one is dick....
 
Joe the plumber said:
There is nothing like checking here to learn what top reliable, verifiable information from a top conspiracy theorist like yourself is thinking. I mean a man of your stature
Mr canaryinthemine. This is kinda like ABfer grade material

A couple of notes: Given that borrowing heavily to expand was always a Roadway-Yellow strategy for growth..the purpose of the latest acquisitions was the pursuit of dominance in the ltl industry, reduce capacity..reduce competition for the same freight etc. Holland, New Penn, Roadway and Yellow were picking each other apart at the same time competing with ABF and the non's. Things didn't go as planned. FedEx has succeeded at dominating the industry. Zollars failed..so whoopsy do doll on that. The union bargained Zollars's job for concessions so we have concesions but no more Zollars

YRC does not hands/on manage Holland or New Penn who by the way are quite profitable. YRC was close..very close to liquidation. It was no joke. They should not be here given the debt, merge problems/recession that cost them billions of lost business. Concessions were a no brainer

If Zollars's intent was to destroy the NMFA he would have sought bankruptcy protection to liquidate. YRC is still here. ABF has declared they want out of the NMFA but then they have been since '08. ABF teamsters are in a no better position bargaining on their own. There will be no contract extension. There will be damage. It could vary from slight to severe depending on how strong you thing your position is. Assuming you have a strong position is a 1..meaning severe damage
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Sorry, Joe....there are all kinds of conspriacy theorists out there, but I just look at end results. After April 1, there will be no more NMFA....and a direct result of that is the extension of YRC's MOU to two years beyond the end of the NMFA. The means, or the "hows" don't matter....the end results do. How the IBT negotiated this, without being aware of the end result, will be another matter for conjecture, but there are only two reasonable reasons. Either the IBT was criminally incompetent, or they were criminally complicit. Apparently, there was no "savior" plan for the NMFA when the extension of YRC's MOUs were negotiated. Amazing. And....the switch to Gordon Sweeton from Tyson Johnson is the IBT's only aknowledgement that Mr. Johnson is "damaged goods" in the eyes of most all Freight Teamsters. Still on the negotiating team, though. That inspires confidence, don't it? All of the points you bring up to exonerate Mr. Zollars from being instrumental to tearing apart the NMFA could be explained as Mr. Zollar's "cover story" . How's that for a conspiracy theory, Joe? Answer careful, now , or I'll be voting "Aye", too.......
 
canaryinthemine said:
Sorry, Joe....there are all kinds of conspriacy theorists out there, but I just look at end results. After April 1, there will be no more NMFA....and a direct result of that is the extension of YRC's MOU to two years beyond the end of the NMFA. The means, or the "hows" don't matter....the end results do. How the IBT negotiated this, without being aware of the end result, will be another matter for conjecture, but there are only two reasonable reasons. Either the IBT was criminally incompetent, or they were criminally complicit. Apparently, there was no "savior" plan for the NMFA when the extension of YRC's MOUs were negotiated. Amazing. And....the switch to Gordon Sweeton from Tyson Johnson is the IBT's only aknowledgement that Mr. Johnson is "damaged goods" in the eyes of most all Freight Teamsters. Still on the negotiating team, though. That inspires confidence, don't it? All of the points you bring up to exonerate Mr. Zollars from being instrumental to tearing apart the NMFA could be explained as Mr. Zollar's "cover story" . How's that for a conspiracy theory, Joe? Answer careful, now , or I'll be voting "Aye", too.......
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The Zollars buy-outs were a business failure not a conspiracy to take down the NMFA. YRC went from losing $2B in '07-'09 plus having over a billion dollars of debt to eking out a small profit or loss whatever last year. How do you conclude Zollars deliberately mismanaged to drag it all down? The regionals are solid profitable. The YRC extension was a must to buy time in the hope of a recovery but Bam got 4 more so that won't happen. IBT lawyers were convinced ABF's rights were not violated. ABF's 'me too' has far-reaching implications as to whether they are even a 'party to' the NMFA. The court and the IBT lawyers think not. I think not. ABF knows not. The law-suit was to spook investors in the YRC restructure. ABF knows they can't win in court so they are going to make you level the playing field. At some point YRC/ABF will be square in cost structure. Is the IBT not calling it 'the ABF NMFA contract? Wages and raises will vary and depend on how profitable your company is. It's still the NMFA..well sort of

A simple analogy: If ABF made $6M profit yet claims they are not competitive how could YRC be competitive losing $2B at the same time having over a billion dollars of debt. Are you of the opinion concessions were not necessary? YRC should not even be here today but because of Hoffa, Tyson and Zollars they are here today That is a reality that Fort Smith is not happy about


pay no attention to Docker..he needs a doctor to treat his
mentally unstable radicalism
​
 
Joe the plumber said:
pay no attention to Docker..he needs a doctor to treat his
mentally unstable radicalism
​
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Look who's talking! One of the biggest ironies in life is how the mentally ill are the only ones who don't know that they are mentally ill.
 
Joe the plumber said:
The Zollars buy-outs were a business failure not a conspiracy to take down the NMFA. YRC went from losing $2B in '07-'09 plus having over a billion dollars of debt to eking out a small profit or loss whatever last year. How do you conclude Zollars deliberately mismanaged to drag it all down? The regionals are solid profitable. The YRC extension was a must to buy time in the hope of a recovery but Bam got 4 more so that won't happen. IBT lawyers were convinced ABF's rights were not violated. ABF's 'me too' has far-reaching implications as to whether they are even a 'party to' the NMFA. The court and the IBT lawyers think not. I think not. ABF knows not. The law-suit was to spook investors in the YRC restructure. ABF knows they can't win in court so they are going to make you level the playing field. At some point YRC/ABF will be square in cost structure. Is the IBT not calling it 'the ABF NMFA contract? Wages and raises will vary and depend on how profitable your company is. It's still the NMFA..well sort of

A simple analogy: If ABF made $6M profit yet claims they are not competitive how could YRC be competitive losing $2B at the same time having over a billion dollars of debt. Are you of the opinion concessions were not necessary? YRC should not even be here today but because of Hoffa, Tyson and Zollars they are here today That is a reality that Fort Smith is not happy about


pay no attention to Docker..he needs a doctor to treat his
mentally unstable radicalism
​
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Not bad, Joe. Would you say the unintended fallout of all the YRC machinations is the end of the NMFA? I think all of the carriers in the ATA would be happy with that,.......unintended or not. Would you say the real conspiracy is ABF's attempt to push a legal leveling of the field at the expense of their employees wages and benefits in the middle of the contract? By the way,...I think Brother Docker is fine....a little vocal and passionate in his opinions,..but that's what we're here for. If he really would need a doctor..........could you recommend one that you've had personal experience with?
 
canaryinthemine said:
Not bad, Joe. Would you say the unintended fallout of all the YRC machinations is the end of the NMFA? I think all of the carriers in the ATA would be happy with that,.......unintended or not. Would you say the real conspiracy is ABF's attempt to push a legal leveling of the field at the expense of their employees wages and benefits in the middle of the contract? By the way,...I think Brother Docker is fine....a little vocal and passionate in his opinions,..but that's what we're here for. If he really would need a doctor..........could you recommend one that you've had personal experience with?
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Yes, you might say YRC is too big to fail. I mean the IBT took some extraordinary action to keep them from filing. Liquidating is not good for one's mental health..too many lives would have been affected. Thousands of families were impacted as it was. *85% of it was from the downturn..15% from the failed merge. Given our country..our economy will never be what it once was it's safe to assume unionized freight will not be growing..not with FedEx out there. Sad but true the only way left for ABF Inc to level the playing field is to have the ABF teamsters pay for it. The YRC teamsters contributed over $2B for the privilege of working for this great organization.

I don't think it's the end of the NMFA..a few different versions maybe
Everything is tied to the economy and profits. When at a low point the cycle of abuse factor comes into play. Employers terrorize and threaten the mental health of it's employees with job loss if they fail to make contributions to bolster company profits. Conversely in good times when there is plenty of work around for everybody and all freight companies are busy..freight companies are easy prey for demands put on them. Docker? he has a long history of loose cannon behavior..


a real nut job
goedgedaan001.gif
 
Joe the plumber said:
Yes, you might say YRC is too big to fail. I mean the IBT took some extraordinary action to keep them from filing. Liquidating is not good for one's mental health..too many lives would have been affected. Thousands of families were impacted as it was. *85% of it was from the downturn..15% from the failed merge. Given our country..our economy will never be what it once was it's safe to assume unionized freight will not be growing..not with FedEx out there. Sad but true the only way left for ABF Inc to level the playing field is to have the ABF teamsters pay for it. The YRC teamsters contributed over $2B for the privilege of working for this great organization.

I don't think it's the end of the NMFA..a few different versions maybe
Everything is tied to the economy and profits. When at a low point the cycle of abuse factor comes into play. Employers terrorize and threaten the mental health of it's employees with job loss if they fail to make contributions to bolster company profits. Conversely in good times when there is plenty of work around for everybody and all freight companies are busy..freight companies are easy prey for demands put on them. Docker? he has a long history of loose cannon behavior..


a real nut job
goedgedaan001.gif
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What a bunch of BS. IF they are going to close then so be it. Privilege of working for a company like I said be before what a bunch of BS
 
I figure if ABF wasn't doing very good.Concessions wouldve been upon you already.If you don't like the proposal presented.Then everyone has the power to use NO.Sometimes NO is not a bad word.You guys used it once already.I don't think all this chatter about this particular issue should even be discussed here.Your Local is a better place for all of your thoughts and opinions
 
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