ABF | Razorblades Opinions

[Razorblade]

And by the way Razorblade, you have still not answered as to why you chose to speak to the good people on the FedEx forum as if you were the owner of the company as opposed to representing the Teamster's when you had the opportunity to about their poor health care coverage. You proudly talked about all your titles you held as a Teamster, but in my opinion, you failed miserably at showing your appreciation of all the great things you have because of the Teamster's.

40 years after deregulation, the Teamsters still want LTL freight to operate just as they did in the 70's. You can see that wages at non union companies meet or exceed those at Teamster carriers. However, operations and benefits do not.
Even in the 80's and 90's contract negotiations were less about wages than about work rules and benefits. Teamsters still demand co pay free healthcare with no employee premiums. Teamsters still expect defined benefit pensions. Teamsters still expect a division of labor that requires linehaul drivers to be paid while waiting for another employee to complete a task that the driver could do himself, resulting in paying two people to do one job. All those costs could be passed along in a regulated environment with government mandated rates. Companies really didn't care about costs. They just wanted to avoid a strike. In today's competitive market, those rule and benefit costs are unsustainable.
The days of getting those 30 days in and retiring from the same company are gone. Reasonable people can no longer expect to be hired at 25 and supported by an employer for the rest of your life. If someone is earning $75,000 a year with Teamster healthcare and retirement, even the YRC rate, and not maxing out the 401K plan or investing in your own IRA after amassing a year's salary in cash account, I have no sympathy.

 

[hangbelly]

my apologies. That was uncalled for. SOR's comment about the sudden devaluation of millions of dollars of operating authority that had been purchased is a great point I missed. Look. As usual, there is truth to all of our opinions on this subject. We need to remember we are not each other's enemy here. Time will tell if America and it's future generations were ultimately well-served by all of this or not. You're obviously a glass half full type and I am a glass half empty type. And yes, I am bitter, unless we are talking about vodka, in which case I say "fill 'er up please, and put a twist of lime on top" I am stunned somewhat to hear this from a retired Teamster, though....

I hope you're not suffering from Stockholm Syndrome there Razorblade. Obviously you don't have Alzheimer's yet.... OK. I apologize again. That was another cheap shot. Smile....

 

[hangbelly]

40 years after deregulation, the Teamsters still want LTL freight to operate just as they did in the 70's. You can see that wages at non union companies meet or exceed those at Teamster carriers. However, operations and benefits do not.
Even in the 80's and 90's contract negotiations were less about wages than about work rules and benefits. Teamsters still demand co pay free healthcare with no employee premiums. Teamsters still expect defined benefit pensions. Teamsters still expect a division of labor that requires linehaul drivers to be paid while waiting for another employee to complete a task that the driver could do himself, resulting in paying two people to do one job. All those costs could be passed along in a

And there I was walking away wiping the blood off and willing to let it go, but here we go again! First off, you meant 30 years not 30 days with full retirement. Not even James R Hoffa, as good as he was, ever dreamed of that! I FINALLY figured out your problem there brother! You obviously believe in the inate goodness and honesty and integrity of corporate America and their willingness to compensate everyone with marketable labor skills that can be exploited by the elite boardrooms of America to the generous levels you envision out of the goodness of their hearts, and to the detriment of their stockholders to whom they hold ultimate loyalty alone. Sorry to burst your bubble there dude, but they have neither respect nor compassion for your subservience and will have everyone working as cheaply as possible while holding the threat of foreign immigrant trained workers willing to work for less over your head while smiling at you and stroking your ego. Oh, and that 401 K you invested in? Their buddies in the hedge funds will take care of that for ya after getting you to contribute some of your own wages as well. Man o man! I can't believe that you think this will work out that well with the direction this country is headed in now. I admire your delusional daydreams of things that used to be, I used to have them myself, but I fear for your abrupt jolt of reality when it all becomes painfully obvious that just ain't in the cards for us working stiffs any more. Or are you just trying to get everyone used to the new paradigm of slavery to the man?

 

[Steward of the Rock]

40 years after deregulation, the Teamsters still want LTL freight to operate just as they did in the 70's. You can see that wages at non union companies meet or exceed those at Teamster carriers. However, operations and benefits do not.
Even in the 80's and 90's contract negotiations were less about wages than about work rules and benefits. Teamsters still demand co pay free healthcare with no employee premiums. Teamsters still expect defined benefit pensions. Teamsters still expect a division of labor that requires linehaul drivers to be paid while waiting for another employee to complete a task that the driver could do himself, resulting in paying two people to do one job. All those costs could be passed along in a regulated environment with government mandated rates. Companies really didn't care about costs. They just wanted to avoid a strike. In today's competitive market, those rule and benefit costs are unsustainable.
The days of getting those 30 days in and retiring from the same company are gone. Reasonable people can no longer expect to be hired at 25 and supported by an employer for the rest of your life. If someone is earning $75,000 a year with Teamster healthcare and retirement, even the YRC rate, and not maxing out the 401K plan or investing in your own IRA after amassing a year's salary in cash account, I have no sympathy.

So, my question about your comments on the FedEx board is once again swept under the rug by you. You are obviously not going to explain why you felt the need to defend the company (FedEx) when a lot the employees there are wanting decent health care coverage and should have it as FedEx has made a killing in profits from the hard work of their employees. You claim you held all these titles as a Teamster and now you defend the employers point of view. You are disgrace to the Teamster's and should be ashamed of your self for ever claiming to be one. But, then again, that is just my opinion!!!

 

[ABF381]

And there I was walking away wiping the blood off and willing to let it go, but here we go again! First off, you meant 30 years not 30 days with full retirement. Not even James R Hoffa, as good as he was, ever dreamed of that! I FINALLY figured out your problem there brother! You obviously believe in the inate goodness and honesty and integrity of corporate America and their willingness to compensate everyone with marketable labor skills that can be exploited by the elite boardrooms of America to the generous levels you envision out of the goodness of their hearts, and to the detriment of their stockholders to whom they hold ultimate loyalty alone. Sorry to burst your bubble there dude, but they have neither respect nor compassion for your subservience and will have everyone working as cheaply as possible while holding the threat of foreign immigrant trained workers willing to work for less over your head while smiling at you and stroking your ego. Oh, and that 401 K you invested in? Their buddies in the hedge funds will take care of that for ya after getting you to contribute some of your own wages as well. Man o man! I can't believe that you think this will work out that well with the direction this country is headed in now. I admire your delusional daydreams of things that used to be, I used to have them myself, but I fear for your abrupt jolt of reality when it all becomes painfully obvious that just ain't in the cards for us working stiffs any more. Or are you just trying to get everyone used to the new paradigm of slavery to the man?

You definitely need to post more....that is an excellent post...this is one of the problems with small investors, they want to think like the big boys, no holds barred as far as the working man goes...if I had a dollar for everytime one of these people have the attitude "if you don't like it go someplace else" I would be rich.....there is nothing wrong with investing but please dont start thinking and acting like them.......you dont have enough money to be in that exclusive club until you have multiple millions of dollars...

 

[hangbelly]

Sorry about not getting back on here to comment sooner. I just got home from work and cleaned up. Anyway, here we go again Razorblade. This was another post you made on the FedEx forum. They were discussing their terrible health insurance and what could be done about it. Some were even discussing union representation. I would have thought that you being employed for 30 years with union freight companies, enjoying premium insurance negotiated by the Teamster's, and now drawing a pension that was also negotiated by the Teamster's, that you would jump right in and tell them the benefits of Union representation. After all, you were a steward, Secretary Treasurer, and a Union recruiter back in the day. Instead, this is what you posted.

"Get over yourself. Capitalism, corporations, free markets and democracy are all about profits. Labor is nothing more than a tool to create revenue and profit. When labor gets too expensive, when people are no longer cost effective, they will be replaced. There are no welders in automobile plants, robots are cheaper and more reliable than people. Labor, union labor in particular, overprices itself and puts companies out of business. Teamster LTL freight companies are a prime example."

That does not sound to me like a person that is thankful for all the great things the Teamster's had provided by negotiating the contract you worked under for premium pay, insurance, pension, and all the other perks you received that was negotiated by the Teamster's. I am just curious as to what made you turn sour about the Teamster's. And, as I stated to you on the FedEx forum, you are biting the very hand that fed you then and is still feeding you now with a pension that you never had to contribute one dime to. If that is the way you represent the Teamster's, I am sure glad you were never my steward.

Yeah, I just can't get my head wrapped around this dude. He has got to be suffering from Stockholm Syndrome. What did they do to you Razorblade? Jam bamboo slivers under your fingernails? burn you with lit cigarettes? Let us help you come back from this brother... The mental anguish and confusion you must be suffering must be horrific. That monthly pension check must burn your palm like fire every month when you deposit it. Don't listen to those voices in your head...

 

[hangbelly]

You definitely need to post more....that is an excellent post...this is one of the problems with small investors, they want to think like the big boys, no holds barred as far as the working man goes...if I had a dollar for everytime one of these people have the attitude "if you don't like it go someplace else" I would be rich.....there is nothing wrong with investing but please dont start thinking and acting like them.......you dont have enough money to be in that exclusive club until you have multiple millions of dollars...

Thank you,sir. I guess I have seen too much in my time that I knew was wrong and I just can't hold my tongue any longer. I don't pretend to have all the answers, and I appreciate being corrected when I am wrong. Razorblade does make some good points, but I choose to take them more as a warning than a condemnation. I have nothing to apologize for as a 53 year Teamster (I joined the first time in 1968 when I went to work for UPS) and I won't let anyone shame me for my work ethic. I know we all feel that way. As much as he angers us, there are things of value in his remarks. I can't find it in my heart to hate him.

 

[ABF381]

Thank you,sir. I guess I have seen too much in my time that I knew was wrong and I just can't hold my tongue any longer. I don't pretend to have all the answers, and I appreciate being corrected when I am wrong. Razorblade does make some good points, but I choose to take them more as a warning than a condemnation. I have nothing to apologize for as a 53 year Teamster (I joined the first time in 1968 when I went to work for UPS) and I won't let anyone shame me for my work ethic. I know we all feel that way. As much as he angers us, there are things of value in his remarks. I can't find it in my heart to hate him.

You are absolutely right.....I appreciate all (well maybe most) who post here...Razorblade does make some valid points...I definitely don't hate him or anyone on here for that matter, especially people who bring honest arguments to the table....sometimes it gives me pause and makes me evaluate my opinions....my work ethic is strong and I'm proud to be a 27 year union member (13 as a Teamster, 14 in the IBEW)....I like reading your posts because they are honest and thoughtful, keep up the good posts...

 

[Razorblade]

So, my question about your comments on the FedEx board is once again swept under the rug by you. You are obviously not going to explain why you felt the need to defend the company (FedEx) when a lot the employees there are wanting decent health care coverage and should have it as FedEx has made a killing in profits from the hard work of their employees. You claim you held all these titles as a Teamster and now you defend the employers point of view. You are disgrace to the Teamster's and should be ashamed of your self for ever claiming to be one. But, then again, that is just my opinion!!!

You really don't get it. In fact, you make my point. "defend the company", " Defend the employer". All that says is the 1970's us against them mentality is alive and well. Labor and management in the 21st century must find common ground in order to ensure corporate and employee prosperity.
Look at the forum list on this board. Pitt-Ohio, R&L, A. Duie Pyle, Dayton, Averitt, Old Dominion, all companies that survived deregulation while 600+ Teamster employers failed. Where are the organizing drives at these companies? For all the complainers on these boards, there must be hundreds of other employees who appreciate the stability and compensation these companies offer.
Why all the hatred of investors? Pension fund dollars are invested. Insurance monies are invested. Instead of being jealous of investors, become one. Depending on another to provide for your future is always a recipe for failure. Retirement requires a plan and that plan can't be expecting YRC and ABF to be in business for another 20 years. Successful retirement must include debt free living, 401K or IRA savings and at least a years salary in bank cash.

 

[Steward of the Rock]

Mr. Razorblade. You were on the FedEx forum defending the employers poor health care coverage and now you say that the employer and employee need to find common ground to ensure prosperity? A happy employee is a productive employee which in turn helps the company prosper. An employee that is all stressed out because of medical bills for themselves and their family because the employer has a terrible health care plan is not going to be a productive employee. An employee with a bad health care plan cannot invest for the future but must instead bank any extra income they have to pay medical costs that their crappy insurance does not cover. You never had that issue as you had premium health care coverage and a pension negotiated by the TEAMSTERS!!!
This ain't the movie "Wall Street", and you ain't Gordon Geiko there Mr. Investment Specialist. You are just an average Joe that made a few good investments and made a little money. I am like a few other posters on here in the fact that I don't hate you. I actually feel sorry for you because you have apparently sold your soul for the almighty dollar.
FedEx definately has the money they have made off of their employees hard work to offer a great insurance plan at a reasonable cost, or no cost at all to their employees. That would definately work in their favor as opposed to giving sign on bonuses to new hires and nothing at all to their current employees. That is like a kick in the nuts to the ones already working at FedEx. FedEx might as well just tell their work force "we value the inexperienced new hires over the employees that we currently have".
And finally, the International Brotherhood of Teamsters is just that. A BROTHERHOOD!!! A true Teamster tries to keep what we have, improve on what we have, and grow our numbers through organizing. Not just give up so that corporate America can pay their investors more while cutting pay and benefits for their employees. Somewhere along the way, you lost sight of what got you to the point of financial security you now claim you have. It all started with what the Teamster negotiated for you.

 

[wheelman1857]

Mr. Razorblade. You were on the FedEx forum defending the employers poor health care coverage and now you say that the employer and employee need to find common ground to ensure prosperity? A happy employee is a productive employee which in turn helps the company prosper. An employee that is all stressed out because of medical bills for themselves and their family because the employer has a terrible health care plan is not going to be a productive employee. An employee with a bad health care plan cannot invest for the future but must instead bank any extra income they have to pay medical costs that their crappy insurance does not cover. You never had that issue as you had premium health care coverage and a pension negotiated by the TEAMSTERS!!!
This ain't the movie "Wall Street", and you ain't Gordon Geiko there Mr. Investment Specialist. You are just an average Joe that made a few good investments and made a little money. I am like a few other posters on here in the fact that I don't hate you. I actually feel sorry for you because you have apparently sold your soul for the almighty dollar.
FedEx definately has the money they have made off of their employees hard work to offer a great insurance plan at a reasonable cost, or no cost at all to their employees. That would definately work in their favor as opposed to giving sign on bonuses to new hires and nothing at all to their current employees. That is like a kick in the nuts to the ones already working at FedEx. FedEx might as well just tell their work force "we value the inexperienced new hires over the employees that we currently have".
And finally, the International Brotherhood of Teamsters is just that. A BROTHERHOOD!!! A true Teamster tries to keep what we have, improve on what we have, and grow our numbers through organizing. Not just give up so that corporate America can pay their investors more while cutting pay and benefits for their employees. Somewhere along the way, you lost sight of what got you to the point of financial security you now claim you have. It all started with what the Teamster negotiated for you.

Amen !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[ABF381]

You really don't get it. In fact, you make my point. "defend the company", " Defend the employer". All that says is the 1970's us against them mentality is alive and well. Labor and management in the 21st century must find common ground in order to ensure corporate and employee prosperity.
Look at the forum list on this board. Pitt-Ohio, R&L, A. Duie Pyle, Dayton, Averitt, Old Dominion, all companies that survived deregulation while 600+ Teamster employers failed. Where are the organizing drives at these companies? For all the complainers on these boards, there must be hundreds of other employees who appreciate the stability and compensation these companies offer.
Why all the hatred of investors? Pension fund dollars are invested. Insurance monies are invested. Instead of being jealous of investors, become one. Depending on another to provide for your future is always a recipe for failure. Retirement requires a plan and that plan can't be expecting YRC and ABF to be in business for another 20 years. Successful retirement must include debt free living, 401K or IRA savings and at least a years salary in bank cash.

"Labor and management must find common ground" you are joking right? I think in 2013 when we found "common ground" ABF teamsters got hosed.....they couldn't give out bonuses and buy other companies (panther) fast enough....I think next time I go to the car dealer for a new car I will "partner" with them as our interests are the same....I don't hate investors but it has gotten to the point of make profits at all costs even if you must screw over the ones who make it possible.....as far as investing I have done everything that you say but you tend to forget that the pension was earned and wages were diverted into the funds, in essence that brother is "saving"...

 

[ROADY]

Mr. Razorblade. You were on the FedEx forum defending the employers poor health care coverage and now you say that the employer and employee need to find common ground to ensure prosperity? A happy employee is a productive employee which in turn helps the company prosper. An employee that is all stressed out because of medical bills for themselves and their family because the employer has a terrible health care plan is not going to be a productive employee. An employee with a bad health care plan cannot invest for the future but must instead bank any extra income they have to pay medical costs that their crappy insurance does not cover. You never had that issue as you had premium health care coverage and a pension negotiated by the TEAMSTERS!!!
This ain't the movie "Wall Street", and you ain't Gordon Geiko there Mr. Investment Specialist. You are just an average Joe that made a few good investments and made a little money. I am like a few other posters on here in the fact that I don't hate you. I actually feel sorry for you because you have apparently sold your soul for the almighty dollar.
FedEx definately has the money they have made off of their employees hard work to offer a great insurance plan at a reasonable cost, or no cost at all to their employees. That would definately work in their favor as opposed to giving sign on bonuses to new hires and nothing at all to their current employees. That is like a kick in the nuts to the ones already working at FedEx. FedEx might as well just tell their work force "we value the inexperienced new hires over the employees that we currently have".
And finally, the International Brotherhood of Teamsters is just that. A BROTHERHOOD!!! A true Teamster tries to keep what we have, improve on what we have, and grow our numbers through organizing. Not just give up so that corporate America can pay their investors more while cutting pay and benefits for their employees. Somewhere along the way, you lost sight of what got you to the point of financial security you now claim you have. It all started with what the Teamster negotiated for you.

Well said!

 

[Razorblade]

Well said!

The health insurance issue is one that applies to every American with or without a job. My wife is not of Medicare age. Her individual health insurance plan costs $781.19 a month, $7000.00 deductible, no vision, no dental and prescription coverage so bad that we use GoodRX. The only civilized nation on the planet that doesn't offer medical care to it's citizens is The United States of America. That needs to change. Medicare works for the elderly population that has the most health problems. It should work for every American. Not the ridiculous Bernie plan but Medicare as we know it today.
If you believe that the Teamsters is a true brotherhood, you never worked on a hog board. A hog board where the senior guys demand 6 trips a week while their "brothers and sisters" can't work enough to get benefits.

 

[SAC75]

The health insurance issue is one that applies to every American with or without a job. My wife is not of Medicare age. Her individual health insurance plan costs $781.19 a month, $7000.00 deductible, no vision, no dental and prescription coverage so bad that we use GoodRX. The only civilized nation on the planet that doesn't offer medical care to it's citizens is The United States of America. That needs to change. Medicare works for the elderly population that has the most health problems. It should work for every American. Not the ridiculous Bernie plan but Medicare as we know it today.
If you believe that the Teamsters is a true brotherhood, you never worked on a hog board. A hog board where the senior guys demand 6 trips a week while their "brothers and sisters" can't work enough to get benefits.

It is a true brotherhood. Put in your time and one day you will get the spot that can work. Why should a twenty five year guy starve with a guy that just started? I don’t know if you grew up with a brother or not but brothers are not that nice in the first place! LOL

 

[Steward of the Rock]

The health insurance issue is one that applies to every American with or without a job. My wife is not of Medicare age. Her individual health insurance plan costs $781.19 a month, $7000.00 deductible, no vision, no dental and prescription coverage so bad that we use GoodRX. The only civilized nation on the planet that doesn't offer medical care to it's citizens is The United States of America. That needs to change. Medicare works for the elderly population that has the most health problems. It should work for every American. Not the ridiculous Bernie plan but Medicare as we know it today.
If you believe that the Teamsters is a true brotherhood, you never worked on a hog board. A hog board where the senior guys demand 6 trips a week while their "brothers and sisters" can't work enough to get benefits.

I totally agree that the greatest country in the world should be able to provide health care coverage to all of its citizens. And, the cost of your wife's insurance per month is ridiculously high especially with that kind of deductible. I have never checked what an individual plan would cost for my wife, but she is type-1 diabetic (insulin defendant). Just imagine what our cost would be per month for her for an individual plan. Thank God the Teamster's negotiated a great health care plan that covers her as well at least as long as I am working.
As far as the hog board goes, that is called seniority. We all have to take the scraps that are leftover starting out just like the senior guys did when they first started. But just imagine where the freight industry would be today if the Teamster's never existed. We would all be paid much less with no company provided insurance, and no overtime pay as well as many other perks that we would have never had.

 

[ABF381]

The health insurance issue is one that applies to every American with or without a job. My wife is not of Medicare age. Her individual health insurance plan costs $781.19 a month, $7000.00 deductible, no vision, no dental and prescription coverage so bad that we use GoodRX. The only civilized nation on the planet that doesn't offer medical care to it's citizens is The United States of America. That needs to change. Medicare works for the elderly population that has the most health problems. It should work for every American. Not the ridiculous Bernie plan but Medicare as we know it today.
If you believe that the Teamsters is a true brotherhood, you never worked on a hog board. A hog board where the senior guys demand 6 trips a week while their "brothers and sisters" can't work enough to get benefits.

Let me start out by saying I agree with the Medicare part of your post, although I must admit I am surprised by it....I mean after all you are a rich top 25% person, not a small guy....and Medicare is a socialist program, and I know how you feel about the free market...or are free markets only good when they benefit you?.....I see your point about the hog board, and it sucks but with time you get seniority and the chance to work more...with all that being said I do appreciate the time you spend to post, even when I dont agree with you....thank you...

 

[ROADY]

The health insurance issue is one that applies to every American with or without a job. My wife is not of Medicare age. Her individual health insurance plan costs $781.19 a month, $7000.00 deductible, no vision, no dental and prescription coverage so bad that we use GoodRX. The only civilized nation on the planet that doesn't offer medical care to it's citizens is The United States of America. That needs to change. Medicare works for the elderly population that has the most health problems. It should work for every American. Not the ridiculous Bernie plan but Medicare as we know it today.
If you believe that the Teamsters is a true brotherhood, you never worked on a hog board. A hog board where the senior guys demand 6 trips a week while their "brothers and sisters" can't work enough to get benefits.

That did not happen at the jobs I worked at. We were a brotherhood. Men would take days off so the bottom men on the list would work in order to cover their benefits. It happened every month when things got slow. I'm not saying what happened on your job but a good steward should talk to his men and tell them that everybody has to eat and be covered on the medical issue. A large majority of my co workers always looked out for the bottom men. Good stewards good jobs.

 

[Steward of the Rock]

That did not happen at the jobs I worked at. We were a brotherhood. Men would take days off so the bottom men on the list would work in order to cover their benefits. It happened every month when things got slow. I'm not saying what happened on your job but a good steward should talk to his men and tell them that everybody has to eat and be covered on the medical issue. A large majority of my co workers always looked out for the bottom men. Good stewards good jobs.

That is the way it should be, but unfortunately the road board is mostly made up of 6 day bids and extra board. At least it is that way here at the Rock. And the way ABF frowns on absenteeism, once you have used your five paid sick days, you are subject to disciplinary action after that point. I know on the city/dock side, most of our guys will turn down any overtime or 6th/7th day punches if anyone is laid off. But you are still required to protect your bid shift which is five consecutive day's a week. The 6 day road bid should definately be addressed in the next contract negotiations as their are many that would rather have a five day bid. But then again, there are probably just as many that prefer the 6 day bids on the road.

 

[ROADY]

That is the way it should be, but unfortunately the road board is mostly made up of 6 day bids and extra board. At least it is that way here at the Rock. And the way ABF frowns on absenteeism, once you have used your five paid sick days, you are subject to disciplinary action after that point. I know on the city/dock side, most of our guys will turn down any overtime or 6th/7th day punches if anyone is laid off. But you are still required to protect your bid shift which is five consecutive day's a week. The 6 day road bid should definately be addressed in the next contract negotiations as their are many that would rather have a five day bid. But then again, there are probably just as many that prefer the 6 day bids on the road.

Understood, I was a p&d driver and that is what I was talking about. Also I understand times have changed in the LTL buisness as well as some of the contractual rules. As far as the road end of the buisness I am ignorant because it was something I never wanted to do.