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Yellow | Road Drivers Performing Hostlers Work @326

LEHIGH vALLEY said:
If the Company orders you to to change classification, (Road to Yard, Yard to Dock etc) Do not refuse. Do it, BE SAFE! And file for 8 hours pay for changing your classification.
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And file for 8 hours pay for changing your classification. When you make an assertion like that, would you consider citing the Supplement, Article, Section and Paragraph that supports your advice? In the Central States supplement if a road man is required to hook his own set, he gets a 2 hour penalty pay, and time involved nothing else. And if there are combo or switchers available not working, they get paid 8 hours. :1036316054:
 
vongrimmenstein said:
Be careful on refusing work. Tell them you are sick & going home. If they object then demand they drive you to the clinic for you feel doing so yourself might not be safe. If they ask you what is wrong tell them it is a private matter between you & your doctor. Please tell me you are using your Olympus Digital Recorder or using the app in your cell smart phone. When it comes to management where you are employed you HAVE TO practice the BOY SCOUT MOTTO. 'Be Prepared'. CYA. Fight fire with fire. Be smarter than your boss so you can win you arguments. Get a witness if possible. Answer their questions with, I don't know, maybe, have no idea, never saw it, I will answer as soon as my steward arrives. Stall; lead them down the wrong path. When you demand a steward, it gives you time to think about the question & how to respond. Even if the steward can't make it, you have given yourself time to recover from the question. Stall, answer in a way that tells them nothing or has no bearing on the subject. If they object tell them you are doing the best you can & you don't think you can improve on your response. In other words, sell them a load of crap. von.
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Von is 100% correct. Refusing work is the one thing they can fire you for and make it stick. Say you are sick or not qualified to operate a yard horse. Offer to do it after getting a training session from a qualified trainer. Say you will do it under protest, but that supervisor is responsible for any damage or injuries. Find a trustworthy union member witness that hears the threat of being fired if refusal to do the work. Verify the time with a company timeclock. Use any excuse except flat out refusing to do the work they want you to. Don't let them set you up. Keep a record of times, what was said by who and just do the work under protest and be on record that you want to have a steward or BA present. Give a detailed copy of what happened to the shop steward at that terminal or call your own steward or BA from your own terminal or local. The persons that are supposed to be doing that job (but not offered) will be able to file on it, even if you are being forced to do it under threat of being fired. Get a witness if possible. The yard man will thank you for protecting HIS work and you will gain some respect from your Teamster brothers. Yes and CYOA. I've been in similar situations many times in my 35 yrs with several companies and management likes to bully people with threats, but HATE IT when their full name is used on a grievance complete with all details and exact times recorded on paper or some other means. One other VERY IMPORTANT thing to remember is KEEP YOUR COOL. Do not holler at, swear at or threaten a supervisor at any time. They will try to goad you into doing that. Keeping calm and demanding your rights of union representation and/or concerns about safety or violation of work and/or driving hours on your logs will be a valid argument but keep calm while arguing your point. That will **** 'em off even more if he sees he can't get under your skin.
 
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I am in central states & was in Ohio for 20 years the 8 hr classification penalty was won in Ohio , Hagerstown was having drivers move trailers in & out of dock, he punched his trip sheet put 8 hrs doing city work & got it ( that was eol terminal)
Kcm is a breakbulk/distribution center so that's an easy 8 hrs class chg/doing city work
 
henry j said:
Von is 100% correct. Refusing work is the one thing they can fire you for and make it stick. Say you are sick or not qualified to operate a yard horse. offer to do it after getting a training session from a qualified trainer. Say you will do it under protest, but that supervisor is responsible for any damage or injuries. Find a trustworthy union member witness that hears the threat of being fired if refusal to do the work. Use any excuse except flat out refusing to do the work they want you to. Keep a record of times, what was said by who and just do the work under protest. Give a detailed copy of what happened to the shop steward at that terminal or call your own steward or BA from your own terminal or local. The persons that are supposed to be doing that job (but not offered) will be able to file on it, even if you are being forced to do it under threat of being fired. Get a witness if possible. The yard man will thank you for protecting HIS work and you will gain some respect from your Teamster brothers. Yes and CYOA.
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I can't speak for every supplemental agreement, but I believe you are wrong about refusing work being a cause for immediate discharge. It is a serious infraction and will get you discipline but legally it is not a legitimate reason for discharge. If refusal of work is not one of the stipulated reasons given for immediate discharge in your supplement then that discharge would be invalid. Not saying that the company might try to get away with it though and definitely not something to test in any event.
 
Triplex said:
I can't speak for every supplemental agreement, but I believe you are wrong about refusing work being a cause for immediate discharge. It is a serious infraction and will get you discipline but legally it is not a legitimate reason for discharge. If refusal of work is not one of the stipulated reasons given for immediate discharge in your supplement then that discharge would be invalid. Not saying that the company might try to get away with it though and definitely not something to test in any event.
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Refusing work for a valid reason is permitted, but get a witness to hear the valid reason, or the supervisor will lie and say there was no valid reason given. He will say "He just refused to work. It's the same as saying "I quit" The old rule applies CYOA.
Just saying to the dispatcher or supervisor "I ain't gonna do it" WILL get you fired. You may get your job back after a grievance hearing but expect it to go on your record and expect some unpaid time off.
 
Cab Lizzard said:
Refusal to work is a dischargeable offense.
Pretrip the equipment and put it out of service.
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Please show me where in any contract or supplement "refusal of work assignment" is listed as a cause for immediate dismissal. I will acknowledge that someone may be discharged for refusing a work assignment but I contend that is an illegal discharge.
 
Supplement example:

(a) In all cases except theft, proven intoxication, proven gross
insubordination, proven sexual harassment, selling or transporting
illegal narcotics and/or controlled substances while on duty, and
unprovoked physical assault on an employee, each having occurred
on the job, an employee to be discharged shall be allowed to remain
on the job without loss of pay unless and until the discharge is sustained
under the grievance procedure. In suspension cases, the employee shall
be allowed to remain on the job without loss of pay unless and until
the suspension is sustained under the grievance machinery.


Gross insubordination as defined by Google:

the refusal of employees to take direction or listen to the instructions of their superiors. Gross insubordination is a workplace offense that may warrant punishment in varying degrees, including dismissal from a company.
 
511monkey said:
Supplement example:

(a) In all cases except theft, proven intoxication, proven gross
insubordination, proven sexual harassment, selling or transporting
illegal narcotics and/or controlled substances while on duty, and
unprovoked physical assault on an employee, each having occurred
on the job, an employee to be discharged shall be allowed to remain
on the job without loss of pay unless and until the discharge is sustained
under the grievance procedure. In suspension cases, the employee shall
be allowed to remain on the job without loss of pay unless and until
the suspension is sustained under the grievance machinery.


Gross insubordination as defined by Google:

the refusal of employees to take direction or listen to the instructions of their superiors. Gross insubordination is a workplace offense that may warrant punishment in varying degrees, including dismissal from a company.
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Thank you. In which supplement is that worded that way? In my supplement (New Jersey - New York) that wording - "proven gross insubordination" - is not included as a reason for immediate discharge.
 
SHOTGUN716 said:
I am in central states & was in Ohio for 20 years the 8 hr classification penalty was won in Ohio , Hagerstown was having drivers move trailers in & out of dock, he punched his trip sheet put 8 hrs doing city work & got it ( that was eol terminal)
Kcm is a breakbulk/distribution center so that's an easy 8 hrs class chg/doing city work
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The MOU eliminated that provision. Road drivers can be instructed to drop loads into the dock at the EOL without a penalty.
 
ROLLBACK said:
WE lose money, define WE. File a grievance, for what, that's not your problem, how were you violated?

Union worker are loosing money, running to management, worrying/talking about everybody else. Management have tools to suspend and terminate, but they chose to let us tear our own classifications and wages down. (DIVIDE AND CONQUER )
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Road Drivers make more money running 6 trips than we do rotting in the break room and losing one waiting on drop and hook all week. Besides after spending a few hours waiting in the drivers room that is when driver fatigue sets in. Never make good time after that.
 
albag said:
And file for 8 hours pay for changing your classification. When you make an assertion like that, would you consider citing the Supplement, Article, Section and Paragraph that supports your advice? In the Central States supplement if a road man is required to hook his own set, he gets a 2 hour penalty pay, and time involved nothing else. And if there are combo or switchers available not working, they get paid 8 hours. :1036316054:
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Correct but then again every supplement is different. What works in say Central States might not work in New England.
 
Triplex said:
Have you noticed where so many of the "union shop" companies of the past are today? Times change and smart people have to adapt. When our competition is primarily non-union we might just have to take a new look at some of the old rules. What good are the old rules when we put ourselves out of business. Take a look at the railroads. Their old rules almost strangled them out of business. The workers got smarter, adapted, and they're thriving today.
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OK let's take a look at the old rules.meanwhile have your BA investigate whether or not the company is doing this on purpose or on that day or week too many were off and if so let the BA sort through.We don't need any more MOU's.
 
Central Pa drivers always did their own work at most EOL's. Dark or not. Only at the Breaks/relays did the yard workers take over.
 
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Triplex said:
Please show me where in any contract or supplement "refusal of work assignment" is listed as a cause for immediate dismissal. I will acknowledge that someone may be discharged for refusing a work assignment but I contend that is an illegal discharge.
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Ok, I will post this again....straight from the contract.

When an employee refuses a direct work order by a supervisor, not in violation of the law or this contract, he/she will be given a writ- ten warning for his/her refusal, stating that he/she has a ten (10) minute cooling off period to reconsider his/her refusal (such as call- ing a job steward or Business Agent for counsel) and that continued failure to perform the work may result in his/her complete loss of seniority.

Yesterday at 8:24 PM
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