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FedEx Freight | The pension problem

From another thread...

FIRE IN THE WIRE said:
Now I'm not for or against the Union but if they can help better my pension and my pay then I'm all in. This pension statement I just got a month ago was $290 some gotdamn dollars if I retired today....and I been here for 18yrs!...go figure!
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This pension has been in place since June 2010. That is 4 years and 2 months. The only thing your 18 years counts for is the rate of contribution by FedEx. Do you seriously think that voting in a union will automatically bump you to $3000 a month after another 12 years? I seriously doubt it. If the union could secure a better pension, it would be from the day you entered the union and the contract they secured for you, not retroactive back to your 1st day of work with FedEx. Using simple math or trucker math(not accounting for interest, inflation or any other variable), if you get $290 a month after 4 years, you'd get $2175 a month if you retired in 2040, 30 years from the date the pension was started. FedEx's contributions will grow as you have more time in service, so that number will go up.

Do they have a calculation of expected retirement payout at your current rate of earnings. I keep seeing many of you throwing out the low numbers but you always fail to include the fact that the pension is only 4 years old.
 
Richard Cranium said:
Just a dumb old guy here, but can we not keep comparing apples to oranges?

You have stated that the teamster pension, which costs you nothing, will only be worth $1200 a month adjusted for inflation.
Is only union money affected by inflation?
Your analysis of what the company provides doesnt show any effects of inflation. Adjusting for inflation, doesn't your 570,000 become more like 190,000?
Is it magically protected? RC is rolling his eyes as I type this.

Also, you indicate a six percent or greater growth factor for our pension. That is simply not true as our cash pension earns 1%.
Your figure is also dependent on a large input of money from the employee whereas the union pension does not require funding by the employee.

I think I will gladly pay dues, write it off on my taxes and call it prepaid legal in the event of BS disciplinary actions.

But hey, what do I know I'm just an old dumb guy.
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1) I'm just a truck driver. I would recommend you run the numbers by your financial advisor. I've been wrong about a lot of things such as my first wife. She promised me a lot and turned out.... well... maybe that's the whole thing with this union. Promise me something and then I just end losing what I had believing in someone come along promising me something better. I could very well be wrong on this as well. I'm open to that.
2) Our pension actually pays 1%-quarter which is closer to 4.1% year. Not 6%. To adjust for that I used a lower salary than you make. Unless you make less than $50,000. and did not calculate the increased company fund that increases from 3% to 7%. I was being very conservative.
3) Nothing is protected from inflation. One advantage of a cash basis pension is that you can, upon retirement, place that sum into annuity where you take regular payments and the rest will pass on to your wife, husband, son or daughter, or even me if you so choose. To my original post that is my point. We need to just make sure we're looking at this thing from all angles. I do like what I do for a living but I hope to one day retire to the keys and spend my days fishing.
4) I have no problem contributing some of my own money toward retirement. I suppose on that I am in the minority. I also contribute some of my money to other investments so I've no aversion to that. I appreciate my job contributing to my retirement and I am, frankly, relying quite substantially on my employer's largesse. I also would not consider staying here if they weren't interested in my future either. I wasn't here for the AF days.

I would please recommend that you run this by an advisor and make sure we don't end up in the same sinking ship situation years down the road that the Central States' Pension Fund is in. We need to make sure we maintain personal control of our personal financial futures as much as we possibly can. I don't want a deal like they have. I want my money either to manage myself or to be managed by a competent professional. I know of absolutely no union pension funds that are solvent. I know this is supposed to be different and all of that but what we have now is different and, in my humble opinion, better in many ways. It could be better still I'm sure.
 
Guardrail said:
From another thread...



This pension has been in place since June 2010. That is 4 years and 2 months. The only thing your 18 years counts for is the rate of contribution by FedEx. Do you seriously think that voting in a union will automatically bump you to $3000 a month after another 12 years? I seriously doubt it. If the union could secure a better pension, it would be from the day you entered the union and the contract they secured for you, not retroactive back to your 1st day of work with FedEx. Using simple math or trucker math(not accounting for interest, inflation or any other variable), if you get $290 a month after 4 years, you'd get $2175 a month if you retired in 2040, 30 years from the date the pension was started. FedEx's contributions will grow as you have more time in service, so that number will go up.

Do they have a calculation of expected retirement payout at your current rate of earnings. I keep seeing many of you throwing out the low numbers but you always fail to include the fact that the pension is only 4 years old.
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I have to be careful here or I get accused of spinning people's words. The problem with what what you're saying is it doesn't fit the prevailing narrative so they don't want to hear it. The fact that someone hasn't saved for retirement and is upset because they're pension is small is not fedex's fault. Your example is a good one, that's the same position I'm in in the union except I get it. I've got 5 years or so in my pension and if I were to stop contributing right now I would't draw a lot when I retire but in 30 years it looks pretty good. As far as the union pension discussion goes this goes right back to my first argument. None of you have any idea what kind of pension you will get, the Teamsters have all kinds of retirement plans and like it or not Fedex will have some say in which one you get. And Gaurdrails point will apply here to, if you only have a few years to work your union retirement isn't going to be that much either, and if I'm not mistaken if you don't work enough years to get vested you may not get it at all.
 
Moninja said:
1) I . I know of absolutely no union pension funds that are solvent. I know this is supposed to be different and all of that but what we have now is different and, in my humble opinion, better in many ways. It could be better still I'm sure.
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There are a lot of guys with union history , that work here and they have been here for some time now.. and they see their union pensions that were left behind at that previous union job floundering and they somehow think that if fedex is unionized, it will salvage their pensions which some are even on the threshold of being turned over to the Federal Guarantee. ..where said pensions will be worth 1/3 'rd of original value.

Would 35,000 fedex employee's becoming union and paying dues really be enough to prop up the failing pensions... I Think Not...

A personal observation....
 
Thom-8-Toes said:
There are a lot of guys with union history , that work here and they have been here for some time now.. and they see their union pensions that were left behind at that previous union job floundering and they somehow think that if fedex is unionized, it will salvage their pensions which some are even on the threshold of being turned over to the Federal Guarantee. ..where said pensions will be worth 1/3 'rd of original value.

Would 35,000 fedex employee's becoming union and paying dues really be enough to prop up the failing pensions... I Think Not...

A personal observation....
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Dues to don't go towards any pensions! Dues are paid as your cost of representation. We would have our own pension like UPS Freight does. No one that I have spoken to, including myself, has any interest in becoming part of the NMFA.
 
frtshaker said:
Dues to don't go towards any pensions! Dues are paid as your cost of representation. We would have our own pension like UPS Freight does. No one that I have spoken to, including myself, has any interest in becoming part of the NMFA.
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I didn't say dues pay the pension...i said some people think that an infusion of 35,000 + new members that consequencely pay dues...will be enough to prop up the faultering unions which in turn might salvage the faultering pensions
 
johndeere4020 said:
I have to be careful here or I get accused of spinning people's words. The problem with what what you're saying is it doesn't fit the prevailing narrative so they don't want to hear it. The fact that someone hasn't saved for retirement and is upset because they're pension is small is not fedex's fault. Your example is a good one, that's the same position I'm in in the union except I get it. I've got 5 years or so in my pension and if I were to stop contributing right now I would't draw a lot when I retire but in 30 years it looks pretty good. As far as the union pension discussion goes this goes right back to my first argument. None of you have any idea what kind of pension you will get, the Teamsters have all kinds of retirement plans and like it or not Fedex will have some say in which one you get. And Gaurdrails point will apply here to, if you only have a few years to work your union retirement isn't going to be that much either, and if I'm not mistaken if you don't work enough years to get vested you may not get it at all.
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That seems to be the point, more or less. Yes we want better benefits and better pay and when it all comes down to it, you have to make sure you're socking something away for retirement. Depending on the union to take care of that for you appears to be dangerous. If we get caught up in a plan like that we could get jacked.
 
Moninja said:
.
I know of absolutely no union pension funds that are solvent. I know this is supposed to be different and all of that but what we have now is different and, in my humble opinion, better in many ways. It could be better still I'm sure.
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I think solvent was the wrong word to use
sol-vent [sol-vuh nt] able to pay all just debts.
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Rather than me listing all of the solvent Teamster Multi Employer Pension Funds (MEPF) how about you naming just 1 insolvent fund? Or you can list as many as you like to better make your point. Or how about you naming 1 Teamster MEPF that has ever defaulted or even missed a retiree paycheck?

Union haters like to use the fact that UPS paid off it's underfunded pension liabilities and withdrew from the CSPF. But they fail to acknowledge that UPS still participates in many other Teamster MEPFs. And union haters usually fail to acknowledge that there are Teamster MEPFs that are thriving like the Western Conference Funds.
Funding Status | The Western Conference of Teamsters Pension Trust
 
Richard Cranium said:
Absolute falsehood. My wife's pension was taken over by the PBGC and yes, it was reduced, but not by 2/3.
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It depends on the type of pension fund. Single Employer Pension Funds (SEPF) get a much higher percentage of their original pensions than Multi Employer Pension Funds (MEPF) which only get a maximum of 35 cents on the dollar. It all has to do with the PBGC's rates which are controlled by the US Congress. And as I'm sure everyone already knows the PBGC is not funded with taxpayer dollars.
 
the last thing I heard was PBGC was close to not having funds,looking for government to step in to help,or take over
 
Gideon129 said:
Not all teamster companies are in the central state pension "the teamster pension"
Ups freight for example is in the ups pension. Ups bought out of the central state fund for several. Billion in cash several years back.
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Ups bought out of the pension because they saw thatcis eas a dying cow. They wanted to make sure their employees didn't get ripped off. So much for the "evil rich company" theory.
 
gears75 said:
Ups bought out of the pension because they saw thatcis eas a dying cow. They wanted to make sure their employees didn't get ripped off. So much for the "evil rich company" theory.
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I don't know who is floating the "evil rich company" theory but it's good to know that UPS is so worried about their employees retirement. But remember that UPS only bought out of the CSPF. UPS still has employees in other Teamster MEPFs................As for your "dying cow" comment would you kindly provide some factual information to support your claim that the CSPFs are dying? They are under a rehabilitation plan and have not missed a retiree paycheck.
 
gears75 said:
Ups bought out of the pension because they saw thatcis eas a dying cow. They wanted to make sure their employees didn't get ripped off. So much for the "evil rich company" theory.
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LOL . . . UPS cares about their employees. That's a good one!

http://truckersjustice.com/D&O 11 15 13.pdf (driver logged wait time as on duty, then fired by UPS)

http://truckersjustice.com/Decision 5-5-11.pdf (driver refused to operate unit with no low beams, tail lights, or side lights, then fired by UPS)

Both got their jobs back with back pay & benefits. UPS cares about their employees :hysterical: Yeah right.
 
Crazy Trucker said:
They got their jobs back because the union
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No the union had nothing to do with these cases. Yes the union grievance procedures would have gotten their jobs back with a few days suspensions and loss of pay. They could have accepted those punishments and returned to work and UPS would have gotten away with violating the law. But in both these cases the men knowing they did nothing wrong stood their ground. They had the guts to file suit with the Dept. of Labor against UPS. David fought Goliath and won. They were reinstated with back pay and benefits and were awarded damages.

Now if they didn't have a union contract and worked for a non union at will carrier they would have been up the creek. Correct me if I'm wrong but in a RTW state can't an employer just terminate an employee without cause? In those 2 cases couldn't the at will employees just been told their services were no longer need? And that being the case they wouldn't have had any claims of safety violations to take their firings to the labor board.

Maybe I have the wrong impression of an at will employee. I picture a driver refusing the dispatchers order to drive an unsafe vehicle and then being economically terminated without explanation.
 
Crystal said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but in a RTW state can't an employer just terminate an employee without cause? In those 2 cases couldn't the at will employees just been told their services were no longer need? And that being the case they wouldn't have had any claims of safety violations to take their firings to the labor board.

Maybe I have the wrong impression of an at will employee. I picture a driver refusing the dispatchers order to drive an unsafe vehicle and then being economically terminated without explanation.
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You are wrong. At will employees can be terminated for any reason, but the employee still has rights. If the employee was terminated for refusing to violate the law, and can prove it, they can still challenge it.

Guardrail
 
Guardrail said:
You are wrong. At will employees can be terminated for any reason, but the employee still has rights. If the employee was terminated for refusing to violate the law, and can prove it, they can still challenge it.

Guardrail
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Then my question to you is why would the at will employer risk a court case by using an employee's refusing to violate a law as grounds for dismissal when he could just say economic termination? Where are the employee's rights if he is told they just don't need him regardless of his seniority? The employee would know the real reason was that 2 days before he had refused to pull the unsafe trailer. But how does he take that to the labor board when the company says the discharge was due to the color of his car?

Being an at-will employee means that your employer can terminate your employment at any time, for any cause - with or without notice. An employer has every right to walk up to an at-will employee and say, "I don't like that your favorite color is purple. You're fired."
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At-Will Employee FAQ's - FindLaw
 
That's the problem with at will states. It places the burden of proof on the employee. I know a guy that was fired in Kansas for refusing to take a load out and deliver it. He told them he was tired and didn't feel it was safe for him to be driving after completing his road run. Several years later, he was awarded a settlement, but not before many delays and lots of FedEx lawyer money being spent.
 
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