That guy was lucky he worked for a big company like FedEx. I don't know exactly what their logic was in giving him a specific reason for firing him. Maybe their arrogant feeling that they are above the law and to put the fear of god into the rest of the drivers. Had he worked for one of the bottom feeding at will employers couldn't they have worked him a couple more days and then just let him go? That way the rest of the workers would get the message without the company risking a run in with the labor board..........................That can't happen at a union company because of the contractual grievance procedures in place.
FedEx Freight | The pension problem
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That guy was lucky he worked for a big company like FedEx. I don't know exactly what their logic was in giving him a specific reason for firing him. Maybe their arrogant feeling that they are above the law and to put the fear of god into the rest of the drivers. Had he worked for one of the bottom feeding at will employers couldn't they have worked him a couple more days and then just let him go? That way the rest of the workers would get the message without the company risking a run in with the labor board..........................That can't happen at a union company because of the contractual grievance procedures in place.
It can and does happen at union companies. But, like you said, the process for justice is quicker.
He was terminated for refusal of dispatch, even though he was a road driver. He won because of this FMCSA regulation.
§ 392.3: Ill or fatigued operator.
No driver shall operate a commercial motor vehicle, and a motor carrier shall not require or permit a driver to operate a commercial motor vehicle, while the driver's ability or alertness is so impaired, or so likely to become impaired, through fatigue, illness, or any other cause, as to make it unsafe for him/her to begin or continue to operate the commercial motor vehicle. However, in a case of grave emergency where the hazard to occupants of the commercial motor vehicle or other users of the highway would be increased by compliance with this section, the driver may continue to operate the commercial motor vehicle to the nearest place at which that hazard is removed.
Guardrail
blindbaron
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I am leaning towards the non union also I will never collect from pension . I do know FedEx won't put up with this seems more freight on purchase less extra runs at my house going to be long poor winter I am afraid!!
1) why wouldn't you collect from pension? 2) FedEx caused this whole thing and has no choice but to "put up" with this. They negotiate (written) terms with every other service provider, why not us? Remember, qualified drivers are not very easy to come by, as FedEx clearly sees. Also, excessive use of purchase transportation, is a negotiable item. You have a better chance of limiting it with a contract than without. IMHO...
I come in an 5 to 6 purchase sitting in dispatch. I get back and 5 or 6 more sitting in dispatch! Really corporate you have no clue why we want a union!!! We're about to fire a shot heard round the system!! As my grandma always SAID " you made your bed! Now lay in it!"
I'm not looking to belabor this point. My thought is that as an at will employee all FedEx, or any at will company, had to do was let him go home and avoid a potential lawsuit under FMCSA. But now he has that check mark next to his name and they are out to get him and prove a point. So they work him 1 night and then he can be let go 2 days later without cause. Maybe I'm over simplifying this at will firing and have missed something. But why bother risking a lawsuit by giving an at will employee a reason for his dismissal when the law doesn't require one?
I think that we are in agreement that the grievance procedures in a union contract would eliminate any successful at will terminations without just cause.
If fedex is soooo great then guess what, during negotiations when we win the vote we can then just have the best of both worlds. Wouldnt u want that ??? Wouldn't u want representation and keep ur fedex plan?
Ohhhh wait...good luck keeping your job here at fed ex freight for 30 years bro. At my terminal out of over 100 drivers we might have maybe 10 guys with 15 years to 20 years here no one near 30 years of service.
Also when we had our "look at how great the fedex pension is " meeting the guy doing the presentation himself said at how nowadays it's just not normal for someone to stay working at one place for 30years then starts talking about what we would get after working here for 30 years
purple headed promise
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Because they want to clean house and get rid of anyone with longevity. That's a primary reason the YOU'RE FIRED" campaign came about. On October 14, I will rest easier knowing I will be here for 30 years of service and retire with a respectable UNION pension.
Moninja, this is your thread and you have put a lot of time and research into attacking the union pension funds. I asked you a couple of days ago to name 1 Teamsters MEPF that wasn't solvent. You may be taking your time in researching it but I can wait. But while you are researching I would like for you to provide proof of your claim in the highlighted quote you made below. You seem to be very sure of yourself while throwing accusations around and trying to pass them off as facts........
These things are true. FedEx freight was viking, af, watkins etc. Within the past decade. Nobody could have worked here 30 years ago. I think anyway. So I'm not sure. We have many many drivers around 20 years at my terminal. Anyway, I came here to retire here. I'm happy here and I know it's not unanimous. I've had some negative interactions with some members of management. Enough to where I've considered exploring alternative careers. .. again. The reason I say that is because I haven't considered working for another trucking company. I think we, as drivers, have it pretty good here.
management should have, and now should be, paying more attention to how the drivers are doing and not just running the numbers. I understand. It's like a marriage where you can neglect the person who takes care of you then one day she says she wants a divorce. It's too late. It's been too long being neglected and she found someone else who's going to treat her right. We the drivers are the disgruntled spouse. So let's just look at how they've done at fulfilling their promises, how their drivers are doing, etc. Once upon a time cf was the industry leader and poor financial decisions (or maybe union demands), drove them out of business. Many union drivers are experiencing pay give backs, underfunded retirements, and likely will experience reduced benefits. Do the math.
in defense of the company, the past few years have seen a deep recession, merging in fedex national (which was losing money), maintaining profitability, etc. In that time we didn't see a pay cut, the company didn't lose money (which is good for everyone imho), and we are in a stronger position for the future. We drivers. I do participate in the espp so I have benefitted from increased share prices. I'm not naive. just a number... a monkey in the seat. I don't feel special but I do feel fortunate to work at a good company who compensates me well. I do want more money. Always have and always will.
I did read the upsf contract. Page 12: retirement. Their contract offers $105/year for every year of service with no credit until you've worked there 2 years service. Also, there was no mention of a match against your personal 401 contribution. This gets back to my original post. Everyone keeps talking about how we'll get some sweetheart deal and, at least in so far as the pension/retirement situation is concerned, we would be far worse off under a UPSF contract than we presently are.
This thread was started so we could specifically discuss the pension plan, how it compares with the union style pensions plans, and what we have to lose, and how our families will be adversely affected, if we don't consider the long-term implications.
A driver earning $80000/year could be walking away from $8400 "free" investment in your retirement that will grow overtime that will be invested for growth versus a stagnant non-inflatiion adjusted $105/month upon retirement under a UPSF style contract. Which, btw, doesn't revert to your next of kin upon your death
I came to fed ex freight also with the intention of retiring here. But I have at least 30 years to go before I can retire and that's if the retirement age stays as is. All that $800k ur talking. About won't matter if ur not enployed here.
Honestly I don't see myself staying here long term not because of me but because in those 30 years there will be many many new managers coming in and out ( hired fired transferred etc) and you just don't know what kind of new bs they wil bring to ur terminal . They might wanna clean house to prove a point or whatever it is..
So don't tell me that if ur a good worker u will always have a job at fed ex..because there are other factors like what kind of management u have that affect ur job security .
Honestly I don't see myself staying here long term not because of me but because in those 30 years there will be many many new managers coming in and out ( hired fired transferred etc) and you just don't know what kind of new bs they wil bring to ur terminal . They might wanna clean house to prove a point or whatever it is..
So don't tell me that if ur a good worker u will always have a job at fed ex..because there are other factors like what kind of management u have that affect ur job security .
westcoaster
starting to believe
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Interesting reading on the MEPF to SEPF movement on the teamster website, non-union forum, " the propaganda begins". Tried to link it, not allowed
First I'm not talking anything. I'm just running the numbers just like you can and if not your accountant or financial planner can do it. There are a lot of variables. One variable is whether or not you'll stay here either by your choice or the choice of some douche of a manager who's going to be in charge later. Union guys get fired too such as the guy who shot up ups yesterday. There are a lot of unknowns and Ii totally feel you. I don'twant to lose my job bbecause I do like my job and I like where I work. I don't want to lose that, or the benefits and i just don't buy that a union will make this a better place to work. We will have to give some things up.
When we leave here whether next year, or 5 years from now, retire, die, whatever, the money in our accounts now belongs to us. With a UPSF style plan, we'll earn less than we do now upon retirement and when we die our families won't get the remainder. So you can leave fedex in 5 years and roll your accumulated balance into whatever works for you. Not the union. And as in this summer's announcement, they can't cut your benefits because it's not theirs to cut. It's yours. All I'm saying.
When we leave here whether next year, or 5 years from now, retire, die, whatever, the money in our accounts now belongs to us. With a UPSF style plan, we'll earn less than we do now upon retirement and when we die our families won't get the remainder. So you can leave fedex in 5 years and roll your accumulated balance into whatever works for you. Not the union. And as in this summer's announcement, they can't cut your benefits because it's not theirs to cut. It's yours. All I'm saying.
Youre using apples and oranges math putting an exaggerated negative spin on the union pension and an exagerrated positive spin on FedEx pension. Nice try. Just cause you did a lot of math doesn't mean the checkbook balances. Besides, you guys would negotiate your own pension plan not be grandfathered into Central States. Don't let yourself become institutionalized to the point that you just continue to blindly put your faith in the good - heartedness of FredEx mgmt. Why would you not want to be able to negotiate your work rules, pay, benefits etc... ?
3820]Youre using apples and oranges math putting an exaggerated negative spin on the union pension and an exagerrated positive spin on FedEx pension. Nice try. Just cause you did a lot of math doesn't mean the checkbook balances. Besides, you guys would negotiate your own pension plan not be grandfathered into Central States. Don't let yourself become institutionalized to the point that you just continue to blindly put your faith in the good - heartedness of FredEx mgmt. Why would you not want to be able to negotiate your work rules, pay, benefits etc... ?[/QUOTE]
Who is negotiating? Me? I'm not negotiating anything. Somebody else is going to negotiate for me and whatever that person negotiates for me is what i get. Real similar to now actually now that you've mentioned it. Only instead I'll have someone else to negotiate what i get. And the most recent union contract that everyone talks about is UPSF and they make more money. I'm not denying reality here. I do appreciate that the pension plan fedex freight offers is more beneficial to us, me and my fellow fedex drivers, than the union drivers' pension. Look. You're obviously pro-union. You think Iif I appreciate what i have, and am exploring and discussing what we might lose if we go union, I'm blind to something. Read the UPSF retirement clause on page 12. It's very specific. $105/month for every year of work there upon retirement. Most drivers won't collect it long enough to make up the difference between what we'll get under the present plan... the remainder of which passes to my wife and/or son.
I'm sorry about your checkbook not balancing. Math helps with things like that. I know you're not interested in figuring out how what I'm saying makes sense because the union is your answer. At least you're clear about that. I'll bet that you, like me, will still want more money. If the union offered a better pension I'd be interested in learning how. The difference between a union pension and a fed ex pension isn't apples and oranges it's the difference between the number of apples.
Who is negotiating? Me? I'm not negotiating anything. Somebody else is going to negotiate for me and whatever that person negotiates for me is what i get. Real similar to now actually now that you've mentioned it. Only instead I'll have someone else to negotiate what i get. And the most recent union contract that everyone talks about is UPSF and they make more money. I'm not denying reality here. I do appreciate that the pension plan fedex freight offers is more beneficial to us, me and my fellow fedex drivers, than the union drivers' pension. Look. You're obviously pro-union. You think Iif I appreciate what i have, and am exploring and discussing what we might lose if we go union, I'm blind to something. Read the UPSF retirement clause on page 12. It's very specific. $105/month for every year of work there upon retirement. Most drivers won't collect it long enough to make up the difference between what we'll get under the present plan... the remainder of which passes to my wife and/or son.
I'm sorry about your checkbook not balancing. Math helps with things like that. I know you're not interested in figuring out how what I'm saying makes sense because the union is your answer. At least you're clear about that. I'll bet that you, like me, will still want more money. If the union offered a better pension I'd be interested in learning how. The difference between a union pension and a fed ex pension isn't apples and oranges it's the difference between the number of apples.
Richard Cranium
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How about we really make it apples and apples.
We've already established the value of a teamster pension at 20, 25 and 30 years.
We have even established how little it will be worth adjusted for inflation.
So do an old fool a favor please.
Remove all the numbers for the 401(k) including the company match.
Okay now figure the company pension for a 25-year-old male starting at 3% doing a normal progression to 7% and run it for 20, 25 and 30 years.
Now please take this number and adjust for inflation.
Maybe then we will finally be able to compare apples to apples.
We've already established the value of a teamster pension at 20, 25 and 30 years.
We have even established how little it will be worth adjusted for inflation.
So do an old fool a favor please.
Remove all the numbers for the 401(k) including the company match.
Okay now figure the company pension for a 25-year-old male starting at 3% doing a normal progression to 7% and run it for 20, 25 and 30 years.
Now please take this number and adjust for inflation.
Maybe then we will finally be able to compare apples to apples.
Moninja, are you deliberately ignoring my questions? Why are you doing so in your own thread? You named your thread "The pension problem" But by your claiming false information to be facts it doesn't solve the problem. It only adds to it by falsely attacking union pension funds.
I asked you in post #48 and again in post #69 for proof of your claims that union pension funds are not solvent. Facts are the truth. Opinions are your beliefs but lacking proof. This is your thread and you can post whatever you want. But you can't expect to try and pass off your false opinions about union pension funds as being facts. Your posts that union pension funds are insolvent are either ignorant of the facts or just plain lies.
I asked you in post #48 and again in post #69 for proof of your claims that union pension funds are not solvent. Facts are the truth. Opinions are your beliefs but lacking proof. This is your thread and you can post whatever you want. But you can't expect to try and pass off your false opinions about union pension funds as being facts. Your posts that union pension funds are insolvent are either ignorant of the facts or just plain lies.
Canadian Flyer
They Call Me CF, Eh
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What Moninja is saying, to shorten it right down, has in fact been said by others. You need to decide for yourself what's best for you and yours. Moninja feels that he's done his homework, and I'd say he's presented a pretty good case for debate.
Crystal, you are a union agitator and that's why Moninja has not directly responded to you. He has stated repeatedly that he's speaking based on what he's been told by union representatives in comparison with his own calculations regarding the FedEx pension. He has also stated several times that he is unsure if what he was told by said union representatives is true or if his calculations pan out. His choosing to ignore your one grievance with his post is equal to your choosing to ignore his disclaimers. This is a discussion/debate regarding pensions, and should be left as such. If you don't have anything to contribute to the discussion between employees weighing the pros and cons of the pension plans presented to them, please ignore this thread instead of attempting to pester the OP and calling him a liar when he's already disclaimed his knowledge and calculations as being theoretical.
Crystal, you are a union agitator and that's why Moninja has not directly responded to you. He has stated repeatedly that he's speaking based on what he's been told by union representatives in comparison with his own calculations regarding the FedEx pension. He has also stated several times that he is unsure if what he was told by said union representatives is true or if his calculations pan out. His choosing to ignore your one grievance with his post is equal to your choosing to ignore his disclaimers. This is a discussion/debate regarding pensions, and should be left as such. If you don't have anything to contribute to the discussion between employees weighing the pros and cons of the pension plans presented to them, please ignore this thread instead of attempting to pester the OP and calling him a liar when he's already disclaimed his knowledge and calculations as being theoretical.
Crazy Trucker
Busting Clowns daily!!!!
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Well that is a awesome post lol. It should be easy for him to answer the question she is asking then.