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ABF | Vote Yes

Homesick said:
Is the reason you only voted once because you are not intellient (smart to keep it simple for you) enough to understand how to vote again? Do you need help? All you have to do is ask. Someone will probably make it simple for you!
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Muler, I deeply regret loosing my temper with you. I am sorry and I apologize for what I said. I truly regret my actions.

On the other hand I am getting tired of your cyber bulling. Please stop calling me names and accusing me of lying. My name is not stupid nor do I lie. Please stop attacking me personally when you don’t like what I post. Most people on this sight are probably over 21 years old but there is no gatekeeper. There is nothing to keep kids from coming to this web page, reading your and my posts, and seeing name calling and cyber bulling as acceptable. I’m not going to be run off because you and Docker call me names. What I am going to do is Report each time I cyber attack someone, you cyber attack someone and Docker cyber attacks someone. Hopefully, this will get Jeff involved and he can ban me, you, and Docker from ever returning to the TruckingBoards if we don’t stop.
 
canaryinthemine said:
I hope you're saving your "NO" vote for the very last one, Brother. Interesting experiment,.....How do you.."verify"...what your final vote was?

Or,...does the electronic tally.."pick".....which vote is your..."final"...vote? (....Sorry,....for that to happen,...someone would have to be manipulating the electronic tally...)

It will be interesting to see if the inaugural electronic voting procedure goes off without a hitch,....and can be independently verified.

If you're voting "YES",.......then we haven't done a good enough job convincing you to vote "NO".........

Are you convinced this is the "best deal"?....Are you convinced this is the "only deal"? Do you see problems for de-funding of pensions in the future? Is there any corporate "explanation" that resonates with you as to why they can't restore the vacation schedule in the same year that ArcBest receives a 15% corporate tax windfall?

How about wages,......which are abysmally low,....compared to the rest of he LTL industry? How about further use of Purchased Transportation,...which directly acts on road drivers?

If I were an active employee,.....I would be voting "NO", just as I had on the last two contracts,.....AND the "beg back"......Time justified all my votes,...........They didn't go "bankrupt" in 2008,..or 2013,....nor did YRC "buy" them in 2013......

They built new corporate headquarters for BOTH ArcBest and Panther,...expanded their "asset-light" acquisitions,...handed out corporate bonuses and stock options like candy,.....shareholders received dividends,.........but for ....FIVE years ......we came THISCLOSE.......to a "bonus",...as prescribed in the contract.........Oh, so close!...just a tiny percentage point away!

Yeah, Right.........Who was doing the "accounting"?.........Fox watching the henhouse again?

Just for those reasons alone,.....would I refuse their first offer,......and then get them back to the table for some....Real Negotiations......

(...OR,...they close.......Shuts off the Goose that Lays the Golden Egg for ArcBest.....Angry shareholders all over.........Middle management,...and lower....out of work........

ALL truckdrivers employed by someone else....WITHIN A WEEK.....)

Who is Bluffing Who?
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Canary, I completely agree with everything you said. But nothing in what you said changes my mind because you, nor anyone else, has addressed the real problem with voting NO. The real problem is what will the priorities be in the next agreement if we vote NO? Will the next TA be a $2.00 hour raise from the start but nothing in the way pension money? Or, what about the opposite, increase money in pension but another cut in wages for the employees? Or something totally different?

The sign of a good contract is noone is truly happy but everyone gets something. Isn’t that what this contract does?

As for me voting numerous times I thought that would be obvious. More votes that active employees. For example if local 728 have 500 active dues paying members and 90% vote (450) and I vote 100 times and total vote count is 550 votes counted. How is the voting integrity upheld?
 
canaryinthemine said:
I hope you're saving your "NO" vote for the very last one, Brother. Interesting experiment,.....How do you.."verify"...what your final vote was?

Or,...does the electronic tally.."pick".....which vote is your..."final"...vote? (....Sorry,....for that to happen,...someone would have to be manipulating the electronic tally...)

It will be interesting to see if the inaugural electronic voting procedure goes off without a hitch,....and can be independently verified.

If you're voting "YES",.......then we haven't done a good enough job convincing you to vote "NO".........

Are you convinced this is the "best deal"?....Are you convinced this is the "only deal"? Do you see problems for de-funding of pensions in the future? Is there any corporate "explanation" that resonates with you as to why they can't restore the vacation schedule in the same year that ArcBest receives a 15% corporate tax windfall?

How about wages,......which are abysmally low,....compared to the rest of he LTL industry? How about further use of Purchased Transportation,...which directly acts on road drivers?

If I were an active employee,.....I would be voting "NO", just as I had on the last two contracts,.....AND the "beg back"......Time justified all my votes,...........They didn't go "bankrupt" in 2008,..or 2013,....nor did YRC "buy" them in 2013......

They built new corporate headquarters for BOTH ArcBest and Panther,...expanded their "asset-light" acquisitions,...handed out corporate bonuses and stock options like candy,.....shareholders received dividends,.........but for ....FIVE years ......we came THISCLOSE.......to a "bonus",...as prescribed in the contract.........Oh, so close!...just a tiny percentage point away!

Yeah, Right.........Who was doing the "accounting"?.........Fox watching the henhouse again?

Just for those reasons alone,.....would I refuse their first offer,......and then get them back to the table for some....Real Negotiations......

(...OR,...they close.......Shuts off the Goose that Lays the Golden Egg for ArcBest.....Angry shareholders all over.........Middle management,...and lower....out of work........

ALL truckdrivers employed by someone else....WITHIN A WEEK.....)

Who is Bluffing Who?
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And as for wages, according to Muler the wages are way above average. Read his posts from when I came back from vacation on Monday and I was upset about going back to work. I left the message early in the morning and I have no idea when is reply was posted.
 
I lean more towards turncoats way of thinking than anyone else. At this stage in time, the teamsters are looking out for themselves and Abf. This contract was designed to set the model for yrc teamsters to work off of. Just my opinion of course
 
Homesick said:
Canary, I completely agree with everything you said. But nothing in what you said changes my mind because you, nor anyone else, has addressed the real problem with voting NO. The real problem is what will the priorities be in the next agreement if we vote NO? Will the next TA be a $2.00 hour raise from the start but nothing in the way pension money? Or, what about the opposite, increase money in pension but another cut in wages for the employees? Or something totally different?

The sign of a good contract is noone is truly happy but everyone gets something. Isn’t that what this contract does?

As for me voting numerous times I thought that would be obvious. More votes that active employees. For example if local 728 have 500 active dues paying members and 90% vote (450) and I vote 100 times and total vote count is 550 votes counted. How is the voting integrity upheld?
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Ahh,....But you get a second offer. When you get that,....we'll debate the merits of what's in that T/A.

A little like a chess game....one move at a time.

I honestly think ABF could do better with the wages and restore the vacation immediately. If I still was an active employee, that's what I'd hold out for.......

Whatever your political affiliation,...and regardless of what you think about the long-term effects of a massive deficit due to tax cuts,.............Mr. Trump DID say that his reasoning behind the corporate tax cuts was so the corporations would pass some/most/all of it to their employees................NOT to the CEO's and shareholders.....

Even if ArcBest hadn't received a windfall 15% cut in taxes THIS YEAR,.......I'd still consider the proposed pay increases miserly, and bordering on insulting. Look and compare to other industries.........Any special reason to remain a truck driver, if it means working below practically everyone elses' pay scale?

As much as it personally could affect me in the future,...the de-funding of pensions was an anticipated move by the company. There are many culprits we could lay the blame of the pension fiasco at the feet of,.......but I would imagine ArcBest has been trying various strategies for a while,.....this is another one. If guys don't see the end result of de-funding pensions...(...AND the IBT's acceptance and complicity in such!...).......well then,....I guess throwing 10% of your fellow employees "to the wolves"...wouldn't be a deal breaker.........(...Just remember that next contract, in case YOU are the next group of 10% to be "thrown to the wolves"...).....

Vote your conscience, Brother! The only reason I'm here is because I've gone through 41 years of contract votes,......I've seen the ..."Good, Bad, and the Ugly".....as far as Tentative Agreements go.......and in My Humble Opinion,....this one falls into the second and third categories.........

I'm also a good chess and poker player,.........and can....smell...a bluff at a hundred yards. I smell it now......and they're doing it ONLY because it worked so well , last time..........

Yer Holdin' a Pair A' Jacks, Ace High,........and There' A' Bluffin' ya' wif a Pair A' T'rees! Knight to Rook 3, 'Mate in Two!
 
Rollin62 said:
I lean more towards turncoats way of thinking than anyone else. At this stage in time, the teamsters are looking out for themselves and Abf. This contract was designed to set the model for yrc teamsters to work off of. Just my opinion of course
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And,....as always, we appreciate your Opinion, Rollin..........

But,....you weren't here last time,.....And,...you didn't see the "spending spree" ArcBest went on after just a little over half of the guys ...fell...for the Ol' "There Going To Buy Us And Put Us Out Of Business!"....schtick,....and felt..."sorry"...for the company....

And,....If I were an IBT negotiator,.........and a "trade paper" released a rumor of a potential buyout by a competitor,...in the MIDDLE of contract negotiations...............I would've...JAMMED MY FOOT DOWN! on the negotiations brake pedal,....called a halt ,....and made the company Officially SUBSTANTIATE the rumor BEFORE I would continue negotiations......Thereby REMOVING ANY INFLUENCING DOUBT! from the minds of the rank-and-file........so they could vote minus outside "worries".....

There's NO HURRY on the Union side.......to figure out wild rumors and such......

But the IBT...."negotiators"...last contract,....Fric and Frac......were too busy schmoozing on the golf course to take any sort of proprietary "interest" in such a piddling little affair as tiny ABF's so-called contract......

So,.....NO brake pedal,.......rumors swirling........No answers,......Much heat from the company.......Barely concealed disinterest from the IBT ..."negotiators".....

You see where Fric(Sweeton) and Frac(Johnson) are today? In disgrace,....and in hindsight,......justifiably so.......

If, in your Humble Opinion,.....this contract is the....model.....YRC will be working with in 2019,.....

Why not set the Bar a little higher?
 
canaryinthemine said:
And,....as always, we appreciate your Opinion, Rollin..........

But,....you weren't here last time,.....And,...you didn't see the "spending spree" ArcBest went on after just a little over half of the guys ...fell...for the Ol' "There Going To Buy Us And Put Us Out Of Business!"....schtick,....and felt..."sorry"...for the company....

And,....If I were an IBT negotiator,.........and a "trade paper" released a rumor of a potential buyout by a competitor,...in the MIDDLE of contract negotiations...............I would've...JAMMED MY FOOT DOWN! on the negotiations brake pedal,....called a halt ,....and made the company Officially SUBSTANTIATE the rumor BEFORE I would continue negotiations......Thereby REMOVING ANY INFLUENCING DOUBT! from the minds of the rank-and-file........so they could vote minus outside "worries".....

There's NO HURRY on the Union side.......to figure out wild rumors and such......

But the IBT...."negotiators"...last contract,....Fric and Frac......were too busy schmoozing on the golf course to take any sort of proprietary "interest" in such a piddling little affair as tiny ABF's so-called contract......

So,.....NO brake pedal,.......rumors swirling........No answers,......Much heat from the company.......Barely concealed disinterest from the IBT ..."negotiators".....

You see where Fric(Sweeton) and Frac(Johnson) are today? In disgrace,....and in hindsight,......justifiably so.......

If, in your Humble Opinion,.....this contract is the....model.....YRC will be working with in 2019,.....

Why not set the Bar a little higher?
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Thank you Canary. I know you are fond of quotes so I offer two I think are relevant to this situation, (1)
A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush (dictionary.com has a great definition) (2) Better the devil you know than the devil you don't (Merriam-Webster dictionary has a great definition). And without a clear path or strategy to obtain a better contract (what I see as better) this is what I go with. I'm not trying to hurt or deprive anyone of anything but there are to many unknowns. And I don't want to start over at another company. Being at the bottom of the board is bad. I don't want to be at less than top pay. I don't want to be on probation for 90 days or however long the probation period is at the new company. I don't want to worry about insurance and per-existing conditions, changing doctors, learning new insurance rules etc. And all because I got stubborn and refused to accept less than the best contract. No, I don't need the best or the most. I am happy with my life!!! I don't want to jeopardize it without a clear strategy to a common goal and a reasonable likelihood of obtaining it. And I may not have a choice in this anyway.
 
Homesick said:
Thank you Canary. I know you are fond of quotes so I offer two I think are relevant to this situation, (1)
A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush (dictionary.com has a great definition) (2) Better the devil you know than the devil you don't (Merriam-Webster dictionary has a great definition). And without a clear path or strategy to obtain a better contract (what I see as better) this is what I go with. I'm not trying to hurt or deprive anyone of anything but there are to many unknowns. And I don't want to start over at another company. Being at the bottom of the board is bad. I don't want to be at less than top pay. I don't want to be on probation for 90 days or however long the probation period is at the new company. I don't want to worry about insurance and per-existing conditions, changing doctors, learning new insurance rules etc. And all because I got stubborn and refused to accept less than the best contract. No, I don't need the best or the most. I am happy with my life!!! I don't want to jeopardize it without a clear strategy to a common goal and a reasonable likelihood of obtaining it. And I may not have a choice in this anyway.
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I'm sorry, but this is the kind of thinking is keeping our profession down under the feet of the ceo's. I'll bet they got a pool going at their fancy clubs, as to how many yes over no votes going. Just where do you think we would be if the founding fathers of this great country would be if they just said paying taxes on tea is not so bad.At least they're not taxing the coffee and my beer. All companies need to wake up and start paying and taking care of drivers or we will be in a world of hurt, if we don't get new blood interested.
 
I can't speak for anyone but myself but I'm not the caliber of man the founding fathers were. I also think you may be simplifying the situation they were in. There was a great deal more happening than just a tax on tea.
 
Homesick said:
I can't speak for anyone but myself but I'm not the caliber of man the founding fathers were. I also think you may be simplifying the situation they were in. There was a great deal more happening than just a tax on tea.
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I feel like you are a plant from the company. Sorry but if you are a steward you are uninformed as far as I’m concerned. You should have the answers but you don’t.
 
Homesick said:
Thank you Canary. I know you are fond of quotes so I offer two I think are relevant to this situation, (1)
A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush (dictionary.com has a great definition) (2) Better the devil you know than the devil you don't (Merriam-Webster dictionary has a great definition). And without a clear path or strategy to obtain a better contract (what I see as better) this is what I go with. I'm not trying to hurt or deprive anyone of anything but there are to many unknowns. And I don't want to start over at another company. Being at the bottom of the board is bad. I don't want to be at less than top pay. I don't want to be on probation for 90 days or however long the probation period is at the new company. I don't want to worry about insurance and per-existing conditions, changing doctors, learning new insurance rules etc. And all because I got stubborn and refused to accept less than the best contract. No, I don't need the best or the most. I am happy with my life!!! I don't want to jeopardize it without a clear strategy to a common goal and a reasonable likelihood of obtaining it. And I may not have a choice in this anyway.
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We know your a yes voter. Your changing no ones mind. So what’s your point?
 
WHY CHANCE CHANGING JOBS? WHO WINS IF THAT HAPPENS? WILL YOU BE BETTER OFF AT THE BOTTOM OF YRC BOARD OR A NON UNION BOARD? VOTE YES!! VOTE YES VOTE YES
 
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