They're paying me about 80K a year plus benefits and have offered me a token raise and my vacation back. They were ready for a strike 5 years ago, so how much more are they ready now. I'm more prepared for one too. Concerning my source.....it's that little common sense factory between my ears. Now Jeff has asked us to be nice and respectful and I appreciate his fine forum. I have given my humble opinion on this situation and I have cast my vote. Everyone has to do what they believe is right for them.
ABF | Vote Yes
- Thread starter mad trucker
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- abf freight vote yes
I think you have some valid points...I really do. very insightful...And you are correct, you have your reasons for voting either way. My option is to vote NO for not allowing ArcBest to build up more Non-Union assets and then put the Freight Div out of business...
All management personnel should also be thinking the same thing (will I be unemployed if major cuts are taken?...OK, for now, Turncoat, I liked this post!
Now what did Trux just get done politely asking you to do... to provide a reliable source as proof... and that empty space between your ears just doesn't cut the mustard... as a matter of fact it does more to discredit what you said to all of us that know you all so well.
Now tell me... just how was ArcBest ready for a strike 5 years ago? Just what evidence do you have to even hint at such a ridiculous statement? Do you know just how much money Arcbest saved with that POS contract in the last 5 years? Do you know what they have been doing with all that money that they saved in the last 5 years?
Seeing how intellectually challenged you are... how about we just with something simple... do you even have any idea of what country you were in the last 5 years?
canaryinthemine
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True,........but I think many guys on here are trying to point out that ...."short-term gain",...will equal long-term pain......
The..."hand grenade"....thrown into the pension funding, will affect future participants,....not just retirees. In fact, I might be....dead.....before that "hand grenade" goes off. But,....sooner or later, the company is trying to....maneuver...out of it's pension obligations,......and the only path beyond that.........is individual 401(k)-style "pensions".
Anyone who has studied the....history of those style "pensions" ,...realize that they are nowhere near as good, or secure as a defined-benefit pension. In fact,.......since May of 1998,.....when defined-contribution pensions, for the first time in history, surpassed defined-contribution pensions as an employer "offering" for retirement,...........the rise and fall of the market,...coupled with various "market adjustments" over the years,....most "investors" in 401(k)'s would have been just as well off stuffing that money in a mattress for 20 or so years. The fact that it's practically impossible to discuss the actual "mechanics" of how you retire on a defined-contribution-style "pension",...coupled with Wall Street's arbitrary adjustment of the annuity rate,....with no accountability or explanation,.......make "understanding" how you are..."investing" in the market a perfect shell game for both employers and Wall Street.
ABF has tried, for several contracts,....to get out of it's many MEPFs, and switch to a defined-contribution-style plan.....I guess you can't see that this contract proposal is just one more move in the corporate "chess game" to eventually shed ABF's pension obligations.
Voting "Yes",...in my opinion,.......is enabling the destruction of future ABF employee's pensions.
The subject about how ABF/ArcBest can actually claim the money in this contract is...."equitable",......and their "reasoning" why it will take a year to restore the vacation schedule,...........is rather...specious, to say the least,.....in light of their 15% tax windfall,....that President Trump said he as giving to corporations so they could "spread the wealth" to their employees.........
Don't see much..."spreading"....in this steaming heap of a contract.......
Economically,.....the driver shortage,....approaching critical status,........should've been the best bargaining chip for wage equity. It's a pity that the IBT negotiators don't see it that way......They must not read very many economic textbooks......
Part of being in a Union , is the ability to stand up to corporate bullying and threats. When you state,....publically,.....that you fear for your job,.........your corporate overlords smile. Makes their job in negotiations very, very easy....
All this is MY Opinion, Brother.........You have yours, ...I have mine.......
Great post Canary!! On a personal level I disagree with you about the 401k. But I also spend a lot of time reading 10k and 8k company reports. I listen to csx and Union Pacific financal reports in order to understand freight in the trucking industry. I read Bristol Myer reports to buy or sell Eckard and CVS, and I hate the limitations that come with a 401k.
6pak, the competition is extremely fierce in the TL sector and ABF would not be able to profitability compete. The barriers to entry are to low. ABF buys these non-asset and asset-light companies that cost basically nothing when compared to the cost of an LTL company. That is my opinion of course.
canaryinthemine
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O.K. Rollin,.......I'll take that at face value, and say "thank you"......
But,...The solution is also......your solution, too. I presume you want a pension after your years of hard work.
There's a difference in what the company wants,.....what the employee wants,....and what the company is telling the employee what he wants.....
Any...."shortage" in the marketplace,....whether it be skills or products,.......proportionately raises the.....value ....of that skill or product. Milton and Rose Friedman..(...economists that lassiez-faire free market Conservatives are fond of quoting..)......would be rolling in their prospective graves,....watching truck drivers undervalue themselves during a..."shortage"......
ABF/ArcBest is able to buy these asset-light/non-asset companies,......because they are able to underpay their workforce.......
We are funding our own "in-house" competition........And we will pay for that dearly, next contract...........
There will be casualties on both sides, but those in management with those big egos that live for power and confrontation will be loving it. I'm saying the ones left after the dust settles will be "business only nitpickers" for the most part. Of course, ABF needs a few more of those. The current business model of ArcBest is to be able to walk into any large shipper and be able to offer best in class transportation solutions for all their needs, LTL, truckload, refrigerated, expidited, retail day of roll-out, and limited handling seasonal distribution and specialized flatbed. Upack is not something that you would sell a manufacturer or distributor with the exception of a bulkhead "exclusive use" move. ABF plays an important roll in this model.
401k's have slowly recovered since the recession. There are always gambles in life. Ask any career farmer. MEPP's are rapidly declining, and ONCE MORE, ArcBest CANNOT nor SHOULD THEY ATTEMPT to save them. We must pray, and pester the hair off our elected officials to put together a plan, (and they can if they are WILLING TO) to shore up these funds. They can figure out how to spend money on anything they WANT TO. I want all of us to have a decent portion to supplement our retirement. Unfortunately, we can't negotiate out of this crisis with a union contract.
OK Docker, I am going to agree with you here. ArcBest has NO clue, or any contingency plan if the Union puts us on strike....they're just going to turn the lights out and go home. Meanwhile, the Union says, we're done with negotiations....but, actually they have a sneaky little plan they're going to spring on the company. Silly me, I am so naive.
I finally agree with you. You are naive.
Do you actually think that that ArcBest has built up their assets to cover ABF’s volume if their is a strike/lockout? The company & union both are going to be surprised how the members feel! This has to stop & stop now....
yep, and what do you think ArcBest is going to do with those particular non union "bargains" ?? I think they have shown us since the last contract..poor mouthing and then buying the assets to develop a strategy to get rid of the Teamster Obligations. Now, I don't have an MBA in business, accounting, finance, etc, but it is obvious
You're more than just silly and naïve... you're a cynical smart ass too by making such a ridiculous post. That simple mind of yours can't even comprehend something as simple as the strike vote being used against it's own members... just as it had been in 2013 with the central region supplement. If you actually think that a strike will be called if this proposal is rejected without another offer being presented to the members first... you're not only silly and naïve... you're fatalistic as well. But that's why you probably vote yes for every single POS contract that comes your way.
Your dumb ass still doesn't even realize that the IBT and ArcBest had a contingency plan already to go in 2013 if that first proposal was rejected. And here you are... doing nothing but flapping your gums about a strike if this proposal is rejected. You can't even grasp the reality of just how weak that made the ABF Teamsters look when they passed that major concessionary 2013 contract. You would realize just why the company is taking a hard stance this time around if you had any sense at all seeing how weak the ABF Teamsters portrayed themselves in 2013. I could go on but that would be useless explaining to someone like you because you are an automatic yes voter... no matter what. You have never earned and fought for one damn thing that the Teamsters have today... you just come after the fact and reap the benefits like they did it all just for you to give away because they knew that you were too lily-livered to fight for yourself! You have no idea what being a Teamster is all about but you will gladly take what they have to offer and the willingness to give it all away... then move on.
I dislike smart asses... especially those that are filled with stupidity... ignorance... gullibility... compliancy and weakness... and you sir are all of them wrapped up in one little package!!! You may be in the Teamster union but you are in no way... shape or form a Teamster... just a disgrace to every Teamster before you... and you are definitely no Brother of mine!!!
And don't go crying about being attacked because that's a fact. So... if you offended by someone simply stating the cold... hard truth... you may want to think twice before directly quoting me in the future with such a smart ass comment.
I'm crushed
As well you should be... along with embarrassed and ashamed.
Their assets are paid for. If ABF ceases operations, there are NO associated operating costs after about 2 weeks of the contractor's flushing the system. ArcBest continues to operate creating a revenue stream to keep corporate functioning. When the strike/lockout is settled ABF resumes operations in a tight LTL market, but it may take a couple of months to a year to see the volumes come back. They will be selective on the business they resume. There will be lay-offs for a good while. ArcBest is beyond done with this pension crisis. They are coming out from under that albatross one way or the other. I am glad they are even willing to pay the current rate until some legislation is hammered out, but if we vote this down, who is going to make them pay another dime into it? Without ABF's contributions (and remember, they make NO contributions on a LAYED-OFF or STRUCK Teamster) how fast will the funds evaporate then. There's 31 years paid in on me, trust me, I want to see a solution that gets me something, but I don't think a NO vote is in that equation.
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My tail is between my legs! Now, as advised I will ignore you. You win