Yellow | Logging off duty / while waiting for freight warning letters

It's time to put this to bed. Some of you think that my _________ ( fill in the blank), of my first pti of the night, is nothing short of a felony while I think that it is not worth 2/3 of a diddly squat. We should agree to disagree. You'll have a safe trip.
 
It's time to put this to bed. Some of you think that my _________ ( fill in the blank), of my first pti of the night, is nothing short of a felony while I think that it is not worth 2/3 of a diddly squat. We should agree to disagree. You'll have a safe trip.

I don't believe that anyone thinks you're committing a "felony" by any stretch of the imagination. And you are surely not the only one doing what you're doing. But the fact remains that you are falsifying your logs and violating DOT hours of service regulations in order to personally gain some benefit. Not a major crime for sure, but not the right thing to do either. Be safe in your travels also.
 
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Regardless the environment, if you get jammed up over false logs, or any other kind of dispute @ work, you will be glad you copied & saved all your documents to defend yourself against the company. The company can be right or wrong. You have to be right every time. CYA. Document everything you can. Union or not, a wrongful termination with little chance to defend yourself will go a long way in changing how you make a living. The first thing any attorney will ask you is what kind of documentation you have to support him taking legal action on you behalf. Once again, CYA.
Once you have logged off the computer, no alterations can be made by anyone. The time frame for which you were logged in becomes concrete.

You can get printouts, but they are more for audit than anything else. I wouldn't advise against getting printouts, but it's not necessary because electronic logs can't be tampered with from outside. Only you can add missing information (forgot to flag a quick stop, for example) from the computer you are currently logged into, and only for the duration of the log session. Other people can see your logs, but they can't be edited. The software doesn't allow it for legal reasons.
 
I have been running electronic since I started with D&R. I have an assigned truck, so the first thing I do when I show up for work is go to it, log in and put myself on duty. PTI, paperwork and everything else happens afterwards.

For the majority here who do not have an assigned tractor, you would go and find out which one you're driving and then go log in before doing anything else. No system I've ever heard of can be in any way altered by anyone outside the truck. You can't be automatically logged in by anyone else from an outside computer. Nobody can remotely change your duty status. It is impossible because by law only the driver is allowed to do anything with their log.

There is no back door into your logbook just because it's part of a network. Nobody can log you in but you. Nobody can change your duty status but you. And nobody can log you out but you. They can remotely view your logs at any time (as can you, since they must give you access to your logs) but there is no way for anyone to forcibly change anything. Allowing that would be illegal.
 
I have been running electronic since I started with D&R. I have an assigned truck, so the first thing I do when I show up for work is go to it, log in and put myself on duty. PTI, paperwork and everything else happens afterwards.

For the majority here who do not have an assigned tractor, you would go and find out which one you're driving and then go log in before doing anything else. No system I've ever heard of can be in any way altered by anyone outside the truck. You can't be automatically logged in by anyone else from an outside computer. Nobody can remotely change your duty status. It is impossible because by law only the driver is allowed to do anything with their log.

There is no back door into your logbook just because it's part of a network. Nobody can log you in but you. Nobody can change your duty status but you. And nobody can log you out but you. They can remotely view your logs at any time (as can you, since they must give you access to your logs) but there is no way for anyone to forcibly change anything. Allowing that would be illegal.
I respect your post, but have to disagree. After Snowden & all the other hacks, leaks, whistleblower cases & any other information brought to the publics attention, your logs can be tampered with. Snowden worked for a contractor who provided services to the NSA. Snowden saw an opening & ran with it. I am not saying it will happen, but once EOBs' become the norm, it will be the norm for your records to be altered. Watch for the small add in the back of the trucking rags. How to alter your logs to look legal, 59.95 including shipping. Or, instead of the CB shop @ the truck stop, you have your friendly hacker with a cable to match your port & a laptop, steps in to the truck & 15 minutes & 69.95 later you have an extra 11 hours of drive time. Just matter of time. von.
 
I respect your post, but have to disagree. After Snowden & all the other hacks, leaks, whistleblower cases & any other information brought to the publics attention, your logs can be tampered with. Snowden worked for a contractor who provided services to the NSA. Snowden saw an opening & ran with it. I am not saying it will happen, but once EOBs' become the norm, it will be the norm for your records to be altered. Watch for the small add in the back of the trucking rags. How to alter your logs to look legal, 59.95 including shipping. Or, instead of the CB shop @ the truck stop, you have your friendly hacker with a cable to match your port & a laptop, steps in to the truck & 15 minutes & 69.95 later you have an extra 11 hours of drive time. Just matter of time. von.
There is no port. I assure you, I've worked with this technology long enough to know. These computers have been around for years already, and they have to be tamper proof to be compliant. The system is hard coded and only works one way. Not even the manufacturers can legally alter the server data. It's monitored by too many people and even if hacking it was possible, someone somewhere would notice that the data has been altered.

Peoplenet and Qualcomm and every other ELD manufacturer are legally obligated to monitor all data that comes through their network and provide it for review upon request. There is no way for them to alter it and they cannot legally delete it. Same applies to the drivers and the carriers.

And to suggest that anyone would go to NSA-level lengths to hack log books is ridiculous. The only reason anyone would bother would be to screw everyone, not to change one person's log so they have more hours at a keystroke. And, I suspect, if it COULD be done, it would already be publicized. You're entitled to your opinion, but respectfully, unless you've actually used one of these systems you don't know how they work.
 
The log can be remotely altered or at least could be remotely altered, but I assume that an unauthorized edit would, not maybe, get someone terminated and worse. When my company started the e-logs, there was and I assume still is a telephone number for a help desk. Mistakes were being made left and right and we were encouraged to call this number so that the log could be edited and corrected. The usual problem was that we forgot to go off duty before logging off the system. When we attempted to log back on duty, the system clock showed that we had run out of our 14 hour session and had not taken a 10 hour break. The help desk edited the log to show off duty and at least a 10 hour break. The edit enabled us to go on duty and start a new shift. This is not second hand information, I used it myself.
 
There is no port. I assure you, I've worked with this technology long enough to know. These computers have been around for years already, and they have to be tamper proof to be compliant. The system is hard coded and only works one way. Not even the manufacturers can legally alter the server data. It's monitored by too many people and even if hacking it was possible, someone somewhere would notice that the data has been altered.

Peoplenet and Qualcomm and every other ELD manufacturer are legally obligated to monitor all data that comes through their network and provide it for review upon request. There is no way for them to alter it and they cannot legally delete it. Same applies to the drivers and the carriers.

And to suggest that anyone would go to NSA-level lengths to hack log books is ridiculous. The only reason anyone would bother would be to screw everyone, not to change one person's log so they have more hours at a keystroke. And, I suspect, if it COULD be done, it would already be publicized. You're entitled to your opinion, but respectfully, unless you've actually used one of these systems you don't know how they work.
I have not worked with them. I am retired. But, if I have a problem with any pay issue, how long in the yard, how many minutes broke down waiting for help or any other issue that might arise, I want to go back & look @ the paper trail I kept to make my argument that I was not paid the proper amount. It is much easier to look @ copies you made @ work than to ask management for them to provide the documents to prove your point. Who is to say they would do it. When I was working, management would pull the sign up sheet when it was full so someone would not see their mistake in dispatching & file on it. Happened all the time. von
 
The company I am leased to has the Qualcomm set up. The compliance dept has the ability to go in and correct your logs but it will also flag who did the correction.
Pre and Post trip inspections are required to be on duty not driving.
Counts down to when you must do your 30 minute break also.

Anyone who performs work off the clock may want to check their state laws on Workmans Comp real close.
All those atta boys received at your little piece of the world get flushed real quick when your mistake cost's your company money.
The attorneys will have a field day with your logs regardless if your right or wrong.
I know of a driver who was hit head-on in his lane and the other driver did not make it. The attorney for the family of the deceased had the judge garnish this mans wages before they even went to court. He lost everything he had when he could not pay his notes. When he was found innocent by the court he got his money . By then it was to late.
 
Dot cop told me most of the tickets he was writing now were for not having the printed sheet on how to download the E- Log machine, and driver not being able to operate the machine well enough to produce the logs.
 
Dot cop told me most of the tickets he was writing now were for not having the printed sheet on how to download the E- Log machine, and driver not being able to operate the machine well enough to produce the logs.
The precise reason you take the time to do a paper log. No company can prevent you from doing a paper log. Just do it. CYA.
 
The company I am leased to has the Qualcomm set up. The compliance dept has the ability to go in and correct your logs but it will also flag who did the correction.

So tell me about the software program the company uses & how fast they tell the driver about the alteration. They do tell all the drivers when they change a Legal Document (your log entries) that you signed off on? Right? Now, tell me, based on the answer to my question about your employer altering you log entries, you don't want to keep a copy or printout of your logs? When you get your pay check do you get a printout of all your road runs showing what you were paid for? I hope you do. How could you reconcile YOUR perceived earnings versus what the company says. In this day & age especially road drivers whose pay is earned from different locations based on where he went that week why would you not keep or obtain documents to prove you argument. That's like hiring yourself to represent yourself in court. You have a fool for a client. von.
 
Once you have logged off the computer, no alterations can be made by anyone. The time frame for which you were logged in becomes concrete.

You can get printouts, but they are more for audit than anything else. I wouldn't advise against getting printouts, but it's not necessary because electronic logs can't be tampered with from outside. Only you can add missing information (forgot to flag a quick stop, for example) from the computer you are currently logged into, and only for the duration of the log session. Other people can see your logs, but they can't be edited. The software doesn't allow it for legal reasons.


They can be edited...they just show as edited on the log print outs and saved files. At least you can with XRS. Not sure what elog program we will get or how they will network it. XRS ran off of a puck that provided the GPS and a cell phone provided the data.
 
I have not worked with them. I am retired. But, if I have a problem with any pay issue, how long in the yard, how many minutes broke down waiting for help or any other issue that might arise, I want to go back & look @ the paper trail I kept to make my argument that I was not paid the proper amount. It is much easier to look @ copies you made @ work than to ask management for them to provide the documents to prove your point. Who is to say they would do it. When I was working, management would pull the sign up sheet when it was full so someone would not see their mistake in dispatching & file on it. Happened all the time. von
I can check my logs on my cell phone or home computer at any time by logging into Peoplenet's network using the company code and my driver ID. It doesn't require any input from management knuckleheads and I can print a copy anywhere or email it to the DOT, myself or whoever. You don't have to ask anyone's permission to see your logs. By law you must always have access to them. That includes electronic logs.

That's not to say paper logs aren't a good backup if you feel it necessary, but the electronic logs are the ones the DOT will reference by law once the mandate comes in. And going forward, I can assure you, these systems are driver friendly. Paper logs are a pain, far more work and far less precise. Elogs will indicate the exact minutes and are far more in our favor regarding filing on lost pay because there's no disputing the digital clock.
 
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