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Yellow | Trucking, labor haggle over driver work rules

Razorblade said:
There can be no debate that unions are based on socialist ideology. As I have said, America works because the socialist unions balance the capitalist corporations. Do you deny that a highly regulated transportation industry with government deciding how many companies can exist, where they are allowed to operate and how much they must charge was socialist? My pension will continue to exist because the mighty IBT went begging to government to subsidize the funds, more socialism. Overpaid? Yes, some classifications of employees are overpaid. All labor is not of equal value, that's socialism. Skillsets define the value of labor. Driving a forklift from 106 door to 93 door does not require the same skillset as pulling a set of triples from Cleveland to Gary Indiana.
Today is as different from my 30 year tenure as 1974 was from the days when Teamsters actually drove teams of horses pulling wagons. Unions that negotiate, and members who ratify contracts that don't allow their companies to be competitive in the marketplace will eventually kill their jobs. The Teamsters Union has moved on. Freight is no longer a priority and no longer the focus of their business. Yes, I said business. The Teamsters Union is big business.
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We have ratified contracts straight out of the bowels of Hell. And some fought to do that.
You must be from another planet.
 
Razorblade said:
I have forgotten nothing.
My frustration is with those who are killing the unionized freight industry by refusing to change with the times. If anyone thinks the unions in this country can operate today just as they did 20 years ago, they are very wrong. Every company, every union, every organization and every person adapts or dies. The United Auto Workers recognized that decades ago. The UAW and the car companies together embraced robotics. Thousands of UAW welders were replaced by machines. Difficult but necessary changes must be made to compete and save the companies that sign the paychecks. When companies shut down, the wages and benefits stop. The one constant truth is this, business is where the jobs are.
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Just remember.....the UAW might also need pension bailouts for giving up them jobs.
Can't have it both ways.
In one way or other somebody pays.
Usually us.
 
Razorblade said:
There can be no debate that unions are based on socialist ideology. As I have said, America works because the socialist unions balance the capitalist corporations. Do you deny that a highly regulated transportation industry with government deciding how many companies can exist, where they are allowed to operate and how much they must charge was socialist? My pension will continue to exist because the mighty IBT went begging to government to subsidize the funds, more socialism. Overpaid? Yes, some classifications of employees are overpaid. All labor is not of equal value, that's socialism. Skillsets define the value of labor. Driving a forklift from 106 door to 93 door does not require the same skillset as pulling a set of triples from Cleveland to Gary Indiana.
Today is as different from my 30 year tenure as 1974 was from the days when Teamsters actually drove teams of horses pulling wagons. Unions that negotiate, and members who ratify contracts that don't allow their companies to be competitive in the marketplace will eventually kill their jobs. The Teamsters Union has moved on. Freight is no longer a priority and no longer the focus of their business. Yes, I said business. The Teamsters Union is big business.
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Corporations are socialist.
And they pay for policy which benefits them.....no different.
No rugged individuality in their system.
No family small business.
Other people's money runs them.
Dig deep and Im sure you find that in their mission to rid the world of socialist unions...they have moved economic and government policy to the taxpayer and government policy. To replace them having to deal with us under contract in the market.

Need retirement...go to government
Need work rules...go to government.
Need health insurance...go to government
Need days off...go to government.
Need a living wage...go to government.

Don't join a union because they make corporations pay...in the market. Right?
Your desires bring socialist policy.
That was your prize by reducing our numbers...
If you truly want a market based economy.
Unions should be honored and encouraged because we keep it all in the market under contract.
It's the taking us down which caused rise to reliance on government.


Or else you can champion dog eat dog...and walk over the poor and diseased as they did when Mother Theresa went to India.
 
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Razorblade said:
Would you be a better driver if they doubled your pay?
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Razorblade said:
There can be no debate that unions are based on socialist ideology. As I have said, America works because the socialist unions balance the capitalist corporations. Do you deny that a highly regulated transportation industry with government deciding how many companies can exist, where they are allowed to operate and how much they must charge was socialist? My pension will continue to exist because the mighty IBT went begging to government to subsidize the funds, more socialism. Overpaid? Yes, some classifications of employees are overpaid. All labor is not of equal value, that's socialism. Skillsets define the value of labor. Driving a forklift from 106 door to 93 door does not require the same skillset as pulling a set of triples from Cleveland to Gary Indiana.
Today is as different from my 30 year tenure as 1974 was from the days when Teamsters actually drove teams of horses pulling wagons. Unions that negotiate, and members who ratify contracts that don't allow their companies to be competitive in the marketplace will eventually kill their jobs. The Teamsters Union has moved on. Freight is no longer a priority and no longer the focus of their business. Yes, I said business. The Teamsters Union is big business.
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I give up on you RB. You really have gone over to the dark side... I would like to see a comparison of accident claims ratios between union and non-union companies though before I agree with you. Logic says you either pay it out in wages and benefits to attract and hold good qualified employees or you can pay it out in insurance claims. There ain't no free lunch. I notice most of the serious trucking accidents I see reported these days have driver's names I cannot pronounce, though. I saw them myself, walking around the truck stops in the pacific northwest in January in flip-flops and sweat pants and yelling at each other in languages I can't recognize and displaying serious anger management issues that I am sure they must be able to contain when behind the wheel sharing the road with your family. Are these the "qualified drivers" you align with? Because this is where your nonunion management friends have taken the industry in their search for ever-cheaper labor. Please spare me the lectures on Trucking Economics 101.
 
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Razorblade said:
I have forgotten nothing.
My frustration is with those who are killing the unionized freight industry by refusing to change with the times. If anyone thinks the unions in this country can operate today just as they did 20 years ago, they are very wrong. Every company, every union, every organization and every person adapts or dies. The United Auto Workers recognized that decades ago. The UAW and the car companies together embraced robotics. Thousands of UAW welders were replaced by machines. Difficult but necessary changes must be made to compete and save the companies that sign the paychecks. When companies shut down, the wages and benefits stop. The one constant truth is this, business is where the jobs are.
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Yeah you have. When you insist on devaluing the work in this industry, you will ultimately reach the wage price point when it is no longer serving the public in a safe and professional manner. What that price point is, I can't say, but you will achieve it. The constant turnover in experienced drivers guarantees it. Self-driving trucks and AI will never replace the knowledge and skill set necessary to safely operate an 80,000 or 105,000 lb load on highways with the general motoring public that expect us to safely share the road with them. This skill set is what I call "road savvy", and they don't teach it in driving school or program it into an onboard operating system. You only gain it from long hours behind the wheel operating in all kinds of road, weather and traffic conditions. Teamster companies have been willing to seek out and retain that skill set and pay a premium for it. Non union companies would rather gamble their insurance premiums on it and call it "acceptable losses' I guess. Your non union friends may well end up killing the Teamsters trucking sector, but at least it will be an honorable death.
 
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Razorblade said:
I have forgotten nothing.
My frustration is with those who are killing the unionized freight industry by refusing to change with the times. If anyone thinks the unions in this country can operate today just as they did 20 years ago, they are very wrong. Every company, every union, every organization and every person adapts or dies. The United Auto Workers recognized that decades ago. The UAW and the car companies together embraced robotics. Thousands of UAW welders were replaced by machines. Difficult but necessary changes must be made to compete and save the companies that sign the paychecks. When companies shut down, the wages and benefits stop. The one constant truth is this, business is where the jobs are.
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Before your economic ideology became popular ....the nation was not in debt
........people did not need to rely on government to survive
Pensions were building, not being bailed out.
We won our wars.
Families stayed together.
We were number one in every manufacturing sector.
We did not need a Fanny and Freddy to buy homes.
We did not need Obamacare.
We did not have a massive illegal immigration problem.
College was considered a luxury, not a necessity.
Japan was not even close as a competitor in electronics or cars.
China was a starving nation.
China played no role in paying off nor training our politicians and business people.

Your economic mentality is one of the number one factors pretty much destroying us.
All for a very small group of spoiled rotten worldwide people who were very wealthy before that, to own our government and the world......at our people's expense.


I'm not Amish.
Don't want to be.
But they don't care about any of your newfangled ideas on economy.
And they live in big homes and still have big families and own a lot of land....while the majority of Americans live in shoebox sized homes.


Not saying to follow them.

Just saying....look at the results of following people who say the same type of stuff you say.
 
Razorblade said:
It's a question that applies to everyone in every occupation especially overpaid and under worked government employees
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If capping salaries is your thing...
Why not cap any corporate employee at 300k/ year?
Invest the rest of these insane salaries back into the corporations.....for the shareholders, of course.
That's MORE than enough for what they do. And no extras either like stock options or none of that.

Compete for that.........FOR
THE
COMPANY!!!!!!!!!
 
hangbelly said:
Yeah you have. When you insist on devaluing the work in this industry, you will ultimately reach the wage price point when it is no longer serving the public in a safe and professional manner. What that price point is, I can't say, but you will achieve it. The constant turnover in experienced drivers guarantees it. Self-driving trucks and AI will never replace the knowledge and skill set necessary to safely operate an 80,000 or 105,000 lb load on highways with the general motoring public that expect us to safely share the road with them. This skill set is what I call "road savvy", and they don't teach it in driving school or program it into an onboard operating system. You only gain it from long hours behind the wheel operating in all kinds of road, weather and traffic conditions. Teamster companies have been willing to seek out and retain that skill set and pay a premium for it. Non union companies would rather gamble their insurance premiums on it and call it "acceptable losses' I guess. Your non union friends may well end up killing the Teamsters trucking sector, but at least it will be an honorable death.
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All companies are willing to put inexperienced driver's behind the wheel union and non union
 
Razorblade said:
I have forgotten nothing.
My frustration is with those who are killing the unionized freight industry by refusing to change with the times. If anyone thinks the unions in this country can operate today just as they did 20 years ago, they are very wrong. Every company, every union, every organization and every person adapts or dies. The United Auto Workers recognized that decades ago. The UAW and the car companies together embraced robotics. Thousands of UAW welders were replaced by machines. Difficult but necessary changes must be made to compete and save the companies that sign the paychecks. When companies shut down, the wages and benefits stop. The one constant truth is this, business is where the jobs are.
Click to expand...
20 years ago the unions were already backtracking.

So....once we give everything that guys like you want......and 2 guys are left working somewhere.......is it universal income with morals dictated by, and material rewards doled out by some kind of Universal Basic Income with a social credit system?
Who pays the tax for that with everybody unemployed?
Surely you don't think corporations and rich guys will pick up the total tax tab, do you?

And guys like you will argue that they shouldn't.
Then who will be able to?

Sounds like a tyrannical government/corporate controlled world you envision.
One with no religions for government and corporations will control all morals and policy. Nobody else will be able to participate politically because the right fights that no limits should be placed on political donations......he who donates most and knows how to control with it...owns the government and the world.

Sounds like President Xi, Disciple of Mao, ruler of billions of cheap oppressed communist labor....has been sitting with corporations who benefit from his power and making big plans.
 
Razorblade said:
I have forgotten nothing.
My frustration is with those who are killing the unionized freight industry by refusing to change with the times. If anyone thinks the unions in this country can operate today just as they did 20 years ago, they are very wrong. Every company, every union, every organization and every person adapts or dies. The United Auto Workers recognized that decades ago. The UAW and the car companies together embraced robotics. Thousands of UAW welders were replaced by machines. Difficult but necessary changes must be made to compete and save the companies that sign the paychecks. When companies shut down, the wages and benefits stop. The one constant truth is this, business is where the jobs are.
Click to expand...
Maybe you have an idea with your automating everything and putting everybody out of work.

I have an idea too.

Why don't you and the investors and corporations and politicians go move into the middle of China with Xi. And implement the whole thing on those 3 billion Chinese.
And come tell us all how it worked out if you all live through it.

My bet is that you don't.
People need work.
 
slavenomore said:
Sounds like a tyrannical government/corporate controlled world you envision.
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Argumentative and paranoid. I prescribe 1 ml of Ativan and a nap.
You are all over the place. You can't rant about government/corporate control in one post and defend a regulated industry in another.
You want my view of utopia, here's how it goes. Start with eliminating the income tax and replacing it with a sales tax. When people bring home every dollar they earn and start paying taxes at the cash register, they will demand an end to runaway government spending. Everyone pays something but the more you spend, the more you pay. The wealthy would still pay the majority of taxes. It's progressive. Corporations, large and small, would pay nothing. Imagine a United States with no corporate income tax. The largest companies in the world would come here and bring tens of thousands jobs.
Government control? Yes, just like we have today. OSHA, EPA, all the other alphabets and the Labor Relations Act of 1935 that created the unions. In addition, I would add a hybrid national healthcare system based on the current Medicare system and Britain's National Health System.
It's nobody's "idea" to automate everything. It's simple math. When human labor is more expensive than machines, machines replace humans. Pallets and forklifts replaced thousands of jobs. should your next contract eliminate forklifts? I'm on the board of my condo association. Do we pay 20 guys with push mowers to cut and trim our 4 acres or do we hire a company that uses 3 men and professional equipment at a lower cost? Your job security depends on a profitable company that can do more with less. Freight companies cannot control rates, they can only control costs. When costs exceed revenue, the company fails and you are out of work.
 
Razorblade said:
Argumentative and paranoid. I prescribe 1 ml of Ativan and a nap.
You are all over the place. You can't rant about government/corporate control in one post and defend a regulated industry in another.
You want my view of utopia, here's how it goes. Start with eliminating the income tax and replacing it with a sales tax. When people bring home every dollar they earn and start paying taxes at the cash register, they will demand an end to runaway government spending. Everyone pays something but the more you spend, the more you pay. The wealthy would still pay the majority of taxes. It's progressive. Corporations, large and small, would pay nothing. Imagine a United States with no corporate income tax. The largest companies in the world would come here and bring tens of thousands jobs.
Government control? Yes, just like we have today. OSHA, EPA, all the other alphabets and the Labor Relations Act of 1935 that created the unions. In addition, I would add a hybrid national healthcare system based on the current Medicare system and Britain's National Health System.
It's nobody's "idea" to automate everything. It's simple math. When human labor is more expensive than machines, machines replace humans. Pallets and forklifts replaced thousands of jobs. should your next contract eliminate forklifts? I'm on the board of my condo association. Do we pay 20 guys with push mowers to cut and trim our 4 acres or do we hire a company that uses 3 men and professional equipment at a lower cost? Your job security depends on a profitable company that can do more with less. Freight companies cannot control rates, they can only control costs. When costs exceed revenue, the company fails and you are out of work.
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I stopped at your 2nd sentence or so.
If you ALLOW the corporations to put people out of work like they desire with automation....nobody can afford to buy anything to enable them to pay a sales tax....unless the corporations convince the government to pay people to sit home....which they are doing for a year now.

I assume your next plan aligns with the theory of maybe vaccinating to sterilize or mandate 2 children or kill off those you seem useless or something...abortion...euthanasia etc.
 
slavenomore said:
I stopped at your 2nd sentence or so.
If you ALLOW the corporations to put people out of work like they desire with automation....nobody can afford to buy anything to enable them to pay a sales tax....unless the corporations convince the government to pay people to sit home....which they are doing for a year now.

I assume your next plan aligns with the theory of maybe vaccinating to sterilize or mandate 2 children or kill off those you seem useless or something...abortion...euthanasia etc.
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You never stopped reading. You just have no reasonable and rational response. It's not 1960 anymore. The rest of the world has recovered from the devastation of WW2 and has become competitive. The United States is committing economic self destruction by refusing to balance budgets and replace a tax structure that was implemented in 1913.
China? yes China will be the dominate power within 10 years. China already has a middle class larger than the entire population of North America and still growing. 1.5 billion consumers live in China. More cars are sold in China than in America. China has a larger and more modern Navy than the United States and the ability to bankrupt us by selling off the 1.1 trillion dollars of U.S. debt that they now hold. China has found a way to make limited capitalism and one party rule work to their advantage. The Chinese government is authoritarian but it's also stable. Business knows what the rules are in China. Here the rules, regulations and the cost of doing business change with every new administration.
But that's okay. Just ignore the facts and pretend that all of our problems are caused by the evil corporations and the shareholders who own them.
 
Razorblade said:
You never stopped reading. You just have no reasonable and rational response. It's not 1960 anymore
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The corporations paved the way for that. With all of their economic ideals and teachings and policies.
And you accept it and want others to.
Accepting a an authoritarian AntiChrist Communist ⓇⒶⒸⒾⓈⓉ regime as leader of the world.
There's probably a time when our FBI and CIA and military would have jailed you for your talk. Now they are probably aligned with you.

And you call ME irrational?
 
slavenomore said:
Maybe you have an idea with your automating everything and putting everybody out of work.

I have an idea too.

Why don't you and the investors and corporations and politicians go move into the middle of China with Xi. And implement the whole thing on those 3 billion Chinese.
And come tell us all how it worked out if you all live through it.

My bet is that you don't.
People need work.
Click to expand...
Where would our economy be today if freight was still being loaded/unloaded from ships with cranes and slings and manual labor? Containerization eliminated many jobs but made ocean shipping much more efficient and economical. That's called progress and like it or not you can't stop it. Railroads used to require five man freight crews years ago because of outdated, antiquated work rules. Railroad unions saw the handwriting on the wall and adapted to modernization and reduced those crews to one or two saving many railroad operations from elimination. Progress sometimes means loss of certain types of jobs but also opens the door to new types of jobs. Sure, we all like to keep things the way they are to some degree and we resist change, but change is inevitable and smart people adapt.
 
Razorblade said:
Argumentative and paranoid. I prescribe 1 ml of Ativan and a nap.
You are all over the place. You can't rant about government/corporate control in one post and defend a regulated industry in another.
You want my view of utopia, here's how it goes. Start with eliminating the income tax and replacing it with a sales tax. When people bring home every dollar they earn and start paying taxes at the cash register, they will demand an end to runaway government spending. Everyone pays something but the more you spend, the more you pay. The wealthy would still pay the majority of taxes. It's progressive. Corporations, large and small, would pay nothing. Imagine a United States with no corporate income tax. The largest companies in the world would come here and bring tens of thousands jobs.
Government control? Yes, just like we have today. OSHA, EPA, all the other alphabets and the Labor Relations Act of 1935 that created the unions. In addition, I would add a hybrid national healthcare system based on the current Medicare system and Britain's National Health System.
It's nobody's "idea" to automate everything. It's simple math. When human labor is more expensive than machines, machines replace humans. Pallets and forklifts replaced thousands of jobs. should your next contract eliminate forklifts? I'm on the board of my condo association. Do we pay 20 guys with push mowers to cut and trim our 4 acres or do we hire a company that uses 3 men and professional equipment at a lower cost? Your job security depends on a profitable company that can do more with less. Freight companies cannot control rates, they can only control costs. When costs exceed revenue, the company fails and you are out of work.
Click to expand...
3 illegals most probably work at your condo.
Nation means something to some.
Apparently you are not one of them.
Realize that China aspires to rule.
And you will be ruled by their authoritarian communism also....and your wealthy teachers too. That all goes when they win what you help them win.
 
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