to get back on topic for a minute, I guess what I was saying was if this "shoving" had taken place off property this man would still have his job. Maybe it was wrong for him to do what he did, but he would still be working. The union would NEVER agree to anything that would allow a member to lose his job? Danny Virtue would have said it was meant to be a "hug", not a shove and all would have been ended with a hand shake the next day. For any situation that allowed this to happen on company time and to be on video tape, why would the union even agree to that to begin with?