We're on the same page here M444. I have 50 years in this racket and it has been pretty evenly split between city and road. Cut my teeth in NYC and the boroughs, doing p and d. We are the only industry in this country that has a segment that can't be paid OT by Federal decree. We all want the same thing, hourly for everyone and OT after 8 hrs. Never going to happen. This little conversation we are having is one of the reasons. We can't agree on the color of the damn sky! We are one of the biggest single group of employees in this country. If we could all agree to shut it down for 3 days, things could change but never going to happen. Just a side note, when they started pulling freight off the trains and running it on trucks on the line as it was called, they paid those road guys by the hour with OT. But the powers to be pushed for the exemption in 1935 with th ICC act. My dad's uncle was running the line. As soon as they started paying by the mile he bumped right back into the city.