ABF | Would you defer your contract raises until December. ABF Only

[Muler]

This is REALITY. Yes it sucks, but it is REALITY. Muler, this isn't any different than if your regular mortgage payment of 850 is raised to 1300 because your neighbors cannot afford to make their payment. You don't live in the house, you will not receive a penny in equity but the payment is increased to cover the shortfall of others. Remember, you have a member down the street who only pays .25 cent for every dollar you pay and he owns three times the homes in the neighborhood.

So according to you, Tyson Johnson is cheating you. Tom Nylan is cheating you. And ABF is about to cheat you because they are no longer willing to pay the pensions of employees who never worked a day at their company. BTW, UPS Paid BILLIONS of dollars to get out of pension liability. The pension has been on a path of failure for 10 years due to changing labor environment within the LTL industry. Our union leaders have avoided the corrected actions based on political calculation. The Calculus has just gotten a lot harder.

I wholeheartedly disagree with the consensus that ABF is going after the distressed status. They have been spending millions in diversifying their assets to subsidiary corporations. A protracted labor dispute is exactly what the doctor ordered to a company that is slowly bleeding itself to death. What do they have to lose but to swing for the fences in a make or break contract?

Again you cry the sky is falling. I never said ABF was going that direction. I stated that I would hope they don't try that direction. And I went on to say that if they did it would be a shame. But at least you agree because you now have stated for the record that you can't see how ABF could go that route due to ALL THE THINGS they have purchased recently. And as for the neighbor analogy it doesn't fly. Because everyone getting a pension has paid in for the years they are getting paid for. So they have already paid for their house and they have earned their pension and they have paid for it. It is the Trustees and the fund overseers that have allowed the money to be wasted. The fund is in crisis because the funds were not invested wisely. Therefore causing a dip in our funding percentage. No nyhan and company(Trustees) have not done their jobs. Remember the ABF Trustee did not protest the departure of UPS from our fund so they are also to shoulder the blame. He was around when they allowed yrc to do as they have done. And they all kept Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan as our investors for years and never said anything. All they have to do is come up with a plan that does not adversely affect any ABF Teamster and they might stand a chance. Anything short of that will fail. YOUR NUMBERS WATCHING BROTHER ALWAYS!

 

[Muler]

I can't believe that all balderdash you're spouting at us muler

You can believe it and you know it is true. The facts don't lie. But I did like your use of the word (balderdash).

 

[nothumbleenough]

And as for the neighbor analogy it doesn't fly. Because everyone getting a pension has paid in for the years they are getting paid for. So they have already paid for their house and they have earned their pension and they have paid for it.

Actually, the analogy does fit. Neither you nor I have made any payments to the pension. We have earned certain monies per our contract to be paid into the pension by ABF. Many Teamsters are drawing a pension but did not neccessarily get all the monies paid into the pension by the companies that they worked for because said companies went bankrupt. Their shortfall was passed onto the remaining contributers to the pension. According to ABF, that difference for 2012 will be 45 million dollars considering they also paid 85 million into the retirement pensions for ABF employees.

 

[nothumbleenough]

But at least you agree because you now have stated for the record that you can't see how ABF could go that route due to ALL THE THINGS they have purchased recently.

ABF is bringing a tank to a knife fight. When this negotiation starts, they will be asking for much more than the 45 million on the pension. At least 20 Million on health and welfare, and substantial work concessions. This I know as fact. What I don't know is anything about a wage concession.

My singular focus has been the pension. We, ABF Teamsters must understand all the facts on the pension. Most specifically, what happens to those currently retired or about to retire if ABF stops contributing to the funds.

 

[Muler]

ABF is bringing a tank to a knife fight. When this negotiation starts, they will be asking for much more than the 45 million on the pension. At least 20 Million on health and welfare, and substantial work concessions. This I know as fact. What I don't know is anything about a wage concession.

My singular focus has been the pension. We, ABF Teamsters must understand all the facts on the pension. Most specifically, what happens to those currently retired or about to retire if ABF stops contributing to the funds.

How do you know so much about the pension and health and welfare figures. They have stated they will not meet until Dec, 18th?

 

[Muler]

Actually, the analogy does fit. Neither you nor I have made any payments to the pension. We have earned certain monies per our contract to be paid into the pension by ABF. Many Teamsters are drawing a pension but did not neccessarily get all the monies paid into the pension by the companies that they worked for because said companies went bankrupt. Their shortfall was passed onto the remaining contributers to the pension. According to ABF, that difference for 2012 will be 45 million dollars considering they also paid 85 million into the retirement pensions for ABF employees.

Yes we have paid into the pension fund. It was a negotiated amount that was to be paid on our behalf. And no Teamster has been paid for any time that was not paid into. If a company went bankrupt and CSPF was not the first lean holder I would say that is the fault of the company and union Trustees on the CSPF board wouldn't you? No evey Teamster receiving a check only gets the amount paid into the fund on their BEHALF! And those are the facts. Now lets see your links and proof on your theory. How much did ABF pay into their non union workers pension funds last year? What percentage are they funded? And you had better go back and read about the amount of time prior to yrc as to how delinquent a company could be on the pension payments and you will see you are badly mistaken. YOUR NOT FALLING FOR YOUR UNPROVEN THEORIES BROTHER ALWAYS!

 

[nothumbleenough]

Yes we have paid into the pension fund. It was a negotiated amount that was to be paid on our behalf. And noTeamster has not beeen paid for any time they did not paid into. If a company went bankrupt and CSPF was not the first lean holder I would say that is the fault of the company and union Trustees on the CSPF board wouldn't you? No evey Teamster receiving a check only gets the amount paid into the fund on their BEHALF! And those are the facts. Now lets see your links and proof on your theory. How much did ABF pay into their non union workers pension funds last year? What percentage are they funded? And you had better go back and read about the amount of time prior to yrc as to how delinquent a company could be on the pension payments and you will see you are badly mistaken. YOUR NOT FALLING FOR YOUR UNPROVEN THEORIES BROTHER ALWAYS!

Call Central States and ask them how much you have paid into the pension. They will correct your assumption on who paid into the fund.

 

[nothumbleenough]

How do you know so much about the pension and health and welfare figures. They have stated they will not meet until Dec, 18th?

Seems like I am putting something in writing that will be proven right or wrong relatively quickly. So call it whatever you want.

For the purpose of history, I still can't find your response as to whether the pension fund will make or lose money for 2012? As I remember, you seem to think since they have cut payments to YRC retirees, things have steadied for the pension.

 

[Boilerpeddle]

Call Central States and ask them how much you have paid into the pension. They will correct your assumption on who paid into the fund.

Semantics. The money was paid as part of our compensation and thinking that its the companies money makes it easier to give it up when it comes time to vote.
My benifits, my money.

 

[Muler]

Seems like I am putting something in writing that will be proven right or wrong relatively quickly. So call it whatever you want.

For the purpose of history, I still can't find your response as to whether the pension fund will make or lose money for 2012? As I remember, you seem to think since they have cut payments to YRC retirees, things have steadied for the pension.

Unlike you I base my post on facts not truck stop BS. You will not find one of my post proclaiming that I am capable of seeing into the future. No I will continue to base my post on facts. You still have not answered many questions with links. By the way you still have not answered the question as to what you think we the Teamsters Rank and File should do to give ABF relief in the pension funds. Let's hear it and please tell us just how to get it done. YOUR FACT POSTING BROTHER ALWAYS!

 

[Muler]

Call Central States and ask them how much you have paid into the pension. They will correct your assumption on who paid into the fund.

You call them and ask them who has a pension coming ME OR ABF! That monthly payment is on my BEHALF! YOUR PENSION LOVING BROTHER ALWAYS!

 

[canaryinthemine]

I've just watched Mr. Slagle's video on the state of the company and the contract negotiations, as I'm sure you all will in the very near future. He states that the conditions of the pension funds and the shortfalls are "Not your (ABF employee) fault, but neither is it ABF's fault." True enough, but I can see that even though the pension problems are not our fault, ALL of the pain and suffering to "fix" the pension mess will fall on our shoulders, and none of the pain will be shared by ABF, nor will they offer a solution that doesn't reduce the amount of money they're paying for pension funds now. Can the rising age of their employees have something to do with ABF wanting to alter the existing structure to convince us to stay employed "just a little longer"?

 

[Deleted member 5115]

Semantics. The money was paid as part of our compensation and thinking that its the companies money makes it easier to give it up when it comes time to vote.
My benifits, my money.

But that is something that you either realize or not. He will never see it that way.

 

[Deleted member 5115]

I've just watched Mr. Slagle's video on the state of the company and the contract negotiations, as I'm sure you all will in the very near future. He states that the conditions of the pension funds and the shortfalls are "Not your (ABF employee) fault, but neither is it ABF's fault." True enough, but I can see that even though the pension problems are not our fault, ALL of the pain and suffering to "fix" the pension mess will fall on our shoulders, and none of the pain will be shared by ABF, nor will they offer a solution that doesn't reduce the amount of money they're paying for pension funds now. Can the rising age of their employees have something to do with ABF wanting to alter the existing structure to convince us to stay employed "just a little longer"?

I am not so sure about that one. I think they would love to trade us cantankerous old men with 4+ weeks of vacation for a trainable youngster with no vacation time. Right off the bat they'd save about $8000 per man just in vacation wages. Then lets imagine one of the IBT's most favorable methods of negotiating...a two tiered wage package. We all know that the next generation doesn't need as much to live as we do anyway, right? All in all though I saw that video as a fairly mild presentation to warm us up for the next one.

OR was that line a sarcastic question? I have heard that they expect the elderly to leave in droves after this contract is finalized.

 

[nothumbleenough]

Semantics. The money was paid as part of our compensation and thinking that its the companies money makes it easier to give it up when it comes time to vote.
My benifits, my money.

If you, Muler or I had paid the money into our own individual retirement account no one would be talking about this issue. However, long ago the Union established a third party (Trust) to handle all this money in regards to our pension. This not semantics. It is an issue of ownership and third party obligations paid and unpaid.

 

[nothumbleenough]

I see you could not find a way to rebut that CSPF has been holding steady for well over a year now. YOUR BROTHER WITH A PENSION ALWAYS!

Moderator Muler, please clarify your statement. CSPF has been holding steady? What is your definition of steady? Burning through less than 1 Billion in assets a year? Burning less than 2.2 Billion as the pension as averaged for the last 4 years?

It is shameful for you to give the impression to your Brother Teamsters that the pension is "holding steady." It is not, and pretending that the boat is not sinking will prevent the appropriate measures from taking place and this will leave many retired Teamsters forever damaged financially. If you are a leader of men, it is important you acknowledge when you are outside your area or expertise. Defer to those that know and understand the consequences of numbers. Tom Nylan was appointed to his position with CSPF because he understands numbers and is only interested in acting in the long term interests of its members. You are only interested in preserving your own self-interests.

 

[Muler]

Moderator Muler, please clarify your statement. CSPF has been holding steady? What is your definition of steady? Burning through less than 1 Billion in assets a year? Burning less than 2.2 Billion as the pension as averaged for the last 4 years?

It is shameful for you to give the impression to your Brother Teamsters that the pension is "holding steady." It is not, and pretending that the boat is not sinking will prevent the appropriate measures from taking place and this will leave many retired Teamsters forever damaged financially. If you are a leader of men, it is important you acknowledge when you are outside your area or expertise. Defer to those that know and understand the consequences of numbers. Tom Nylan was appointed to his position with CSPF because he understands numbers and is only interested in acting in the long term interests of its members. You are only interested in preserving your own self-interests.

What are my self interest? At least you now have shown you are, not a Teamster . After all you referred to them as MY brother Teamsters not OUR Brother Teamsters. I know that you know my name let's hear yours. You came to this forum claiming to be an Ex yrc Teamster. But we know that is not so. I have never hidden who I am but yet you have. WHY? Just a little fact for you. Maybe one out of 500 Teamsters would know what a Red Herring is. But every lawyer and business executive and also doctors would use that phrase in a post. So man up and lets hear what you really have to say. How do we give ABF a break from the pension funds? How about we destroy your pension fund along with ours when and if that time comes? You still have not posted your links. I hope you are lower level management. Because if you were a higher level manager we are in trouble. Did you not think we would see thru your lame attempts to scare Teamsters into voting for destroying their pensions. You would bonus out and they would suffer. That will not happen. And you have done us the ABF Teamsters a great favor by showing your total disrespect for us. What is the weather like there in Arkansas? Be a real man and come at me for who you are. Stop beating around the bush. YOUR NUT CRACKING BROTHER ALWAYS!

 

[Muler]

If you, Muler or I had paid the money into our own individual retirement account no one would be talking about this issue. However, long ago the Union established a third party (Trust) to handle all this money in regards to our pension. This not semantics. It is an issue of ownership and third party obligations paid and unpaid.

Are you talking about the 401K accounts that had 3 trillion dollars when the recession started and now they have roughly 2 trillion? That is not a very good comparison. And to even expect a Teamster to be a driver and a expert financial adviser would be a far reach. A defined pension was put into place by James R. Hoffa to protect those that could not save nor be expected to invest wisely. It is a safety net for thousands of Teamsters. But you could not understand that because you don't respect us or for that matter you don;t care about us. But you are getting a first hand lesson about respect on this site. Here you are just one of us no better than anyone on here. I know you are dying to pull out numbers that only a company management person would have. But if you do I will shove them where the sun don't shine. This up coming contract has to be a complete above board agreement or ABF will fail. That is not a threat it is what I have seen over the years. If the workers come to the point where they feel they have been wronged it is all down hill from there. I bet my Teamsters would have a better chance at another trucking job than you would given your looking down attitude. But I enjoy knowing you have to come to this site and listen to what I have to say. I bet it just chaps you. But hey you came here looking for it and you found it. YOUR NUT CRACKING BROTHER ALWAYS!

 

[nothumbleenough]

What are my self interest? At least you now have shown you are, not a Teamster . After all you referred to them as MY brother Teamsters not OUR Brother Teamsters. I know that you know my name let's hear yours. You came to this forum claiming to be an Ex yrc Teamster. But we know that is not so. I have never hidden who I am but yet you have. WHY? Just a little fact for you. Maybe one out of 500 Teamsters would know what a Red Herring is. But every lawyer and business executive and also doctors would use that phrase in a post. So man up and lets hear what you really have to say. How do we give ABF a break from the pension funds? How about we destroy your pension fund along with ours when and if that time comes? You still have not posted your links. I hope you are lower level management. Because if you were a higher level manager we are in trouble. Did you not think we would see thru your lame attempts to scare Teamsters into voting for destroying their pensions. You would bonus out and they would suffer. That will not happen. And you have done us the ABF Teamsters a great favor by showing your total disrespect for us. What is the weather like there in Arkansas? Be a real man and come at me for who you are. Stop beating around the bush. YOUR NUT CRACKING BROTHER ALWAYS!

To my NUT CRACKING BROTHER TEAMSTER. Sorry, I am just a road driver from 004. What terminal do you call home? I promise to look you up if I get to that terminal.

Stop selling your fellow Teamsters short. Many of us have college degrees or work experience outside the trucking world. That is not a bad thing.

You are leading the ABF Teamsters down the road of ruin if you fail to acknowledge the consequences if ABF stops paying into Central States altogether.

 

[nothumbleenough]

Are you talking about the 401K accounts that had 3 trillion dollars when the recession started and now they have roughly 2 trillion? That is not a very good comparison. And to even expect a Teamster to be a driver and a expert financial adviser would be a far reach. YOUR NUT CRACKING BROTHER ALWAYS!

And the pension fund went down even further because it was paying excessive management fees to the big banks running the funds. So what is the difference?