TForce | An alternative to IBT.....Association of Parcel Workers of America
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APWA, American Parcel Workers Association? Looking to organize UPSFreight. UPSFreight is an LTL general freight company. By the admission of their name, going after LTL seems to be a conflict of their mission statement. If they really want some fish to fry, why don't they try to organize other PARCEL companies, like Fedex or DHL? OOPS. DHL already has Teamster representation at some facilities. ...my bad
If they are solely trying to organize just one corporation, then my gut feeling also is, company sponsered. They make some pretty nifty claims....no pay, no copay medical, $7,000 per month pension. Stay a little longer get an extra thousand or two. Yet, I have still not seen any financial statement regarding their expenses and revenues. They claim to be nonprofit, but how are they going to make money for the retirement funds? Yet, if they make money for the retirement funds, how can they be nonprofit. Too many variables and unknowns here. I guess they'll do it with smoke and mirrors.
If they are solely trying to organize just one corporation, then my gut feeling also is, company sponsered. They make some pretty nifty claims....no pay, no copay medical, $7,000 per month pension. Stay a little longer get an extra thousand or two. Yet, I have still not seen any financial statement regarding their expenses and revenues. They claim to be nonprofit, but how are they going to make money for the retirement funds? Yet, if they make money for the retirement funds, how can they be nonprofit. Too many variables and unknowns here. I guess they'll do it with smoke and mirrors.I asked No Spin who, if anyone, they actually represent and got no answer. As far as I can tell, they have no track record at all. Formed in late 2004? By guys who are in a right to work state and now pay no dues to the Teamsters while still enjoying the benefits? These guys ought to be ashamed. They are not good Union men. Again, who do they represent and where? It sounds like a load of crap to me.
wassesname
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spin... good way to make friends.at least you made one and he wants to be un-organized. where do you still find movies to rent on beta? where do you get parts for your DeLorean?
saddletramp
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Me thinks Mr. NoSpin probably uses one of the Union Busting Attorneys that "represent" Danny and company at APWA. Good company to keep there boys, gettin in bed with the lawyers!
You forgot to tell skeeter about the free pen and mug. But act now and also recieve a free t-shirt!! A $19.99 value. And as being a long time listener, first time caller he'll also recieve a personal letter generically written by the president welcoming him.Teamster251 said:
imported_Silverhawk1
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WOW! this is an interesting twist I didn't expect to see on this fine morning of May 1st. Two different Unions bickering back and forth about which one is better.... That is simply amazing!
I think I will go and check into this other UNION!
Hey if we were to join the APWA then we could say stuff like "In Unity There Is STRENGTH!" or "I may bleed UPSF blood, But it is pumped by a union heart. [Tongue in cheek]
I think I'm going to have to get the duct tape out because I think my head is about ready to explode... truly it is!
Don't expect me to rebut any responses to this post. I am taking some time off from these forums for a while. I have more important things to attend too. My family and it is finally getting warm outside. so I think I will go and spend some quality time with both.
I think I will go and check into this other UNION!
Hey if we were to join the APWA then we could say stuff like "In Unity There Is STRENGTH!" or "I may bleed UPSF blood, But it is pumped by a union heart. [Tongue in cheek]
I think I'm going to have to get the duct tape out because I think my head is about ready to explode... truly it is!
Don't expect me to rebut any responses to this post. I am taking some time off from these forums for a while. I have more important things to attend too. My family and it is finally getting warm outside. so I think I will go and spend some quality time with both.
nospinzone
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Good questions
Keep the questions coming. I understand your skepticism because I shared it when I first learned of APWA.
Nospin
APWA was formed for the sole purpose of representing UPS employees only. Not DHL, not, FedEx, or other parcel companies. UPS only. And correct me if I’m wrong, but as of today, isn’t your employer UPS?
I know the multi-employer union has been the “in thing” for the past 60yrs, but UPS and other companies have evolved in how they do business; whereas at IBT its the 1970's union model. In 1980, when trucking was deregulated, there were 900 companies contracted through Teamsters…..which does sound impressive. Today there are 15…..FIFTEEN. (source: Bloomberg article) That sounds like weakness and poor adaptation to me. Then you consider that if IBT was truly negotiating and looking out for UPS employees best interest, then all the money that UPS contributes to the pension plans would go to UPS employees. If UPS was contributing 100 bucks a week to my pension, I would get the whole $100. But according to James P, that’s not how its working. Only $40 is going into my pension. The other $60 is going to someone else. SIXTY PERCENT of retirement contributions go to non-UPS employees. Im sorry, but as you will soon find out, Teamsters is ****** the UPS employee and continuing to throw money at this problem will not make it go away.
APWA is currently a nonprofit organization. This means all contribution are used to cover operating expenses. No one is pulling a salary from the APWA. UPS employees who agree with their goals contribute voluntarily to defray the expenses of APWA such as traveling to cities throughout the US to hold information meetings and legal expenses. Which, there must be a good bit of support because these guys have been traveling for the past year holding meetings in Ohio, Kentucky, NC, Tenn, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, Texas, Oklahoma to name a few; and they have expanded to four teams that hold the informational meetings. Should APWA win the NLRB election, they would then become fiduciaries of a single employer Taft-Hartley pension fund which invests the contributions of employers/employees to cover future retirement liabilities and healthcare expenses. And by the way, the board of trustees that would oversee the APWA retirement funds would only have people who have worked at UPS for at least ten years. Not some strangers that have never worked a day in their life at UPS....The net worth of APWA would not increase because all retirement contributions and capital gains are reinvested into the fund. Union dues help defray the expenses of operating the union….in the Teamsters case paying Hoffa’s crowd their big fat salaries, and subsidizing things like…oh self portraits of Hoffa and Keegel costing Teamsters $45,000 each. That’s not-for-profit…..Teamster style.
They represent UPS employees throughout the US who are no longer happy with their poor union representation. APWA would become the recognized bargaining agent for UPS employees following a secret ballot NLRB election that will probably be initiated within this calendar year.
James P Hoffa holds a law degree from Univ of Michigan, 1966, and spent 25yrs of his life working as a labor lawyer. Danny Eason and Van Skillman have been working as UPS drivers for 32 and 25 years respectively. Who do you think knows what its like to drive for UPS?
Wear some good sunscreen!
Keep the questions coming. I understand your skepticism because I shared it when I first learned of APWA.
Nospin
BUTTONMAN74
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EXACTLY CFer, just what I' d want,SOMEONE THAT NEVER DROVE A TRUCK,WORKED A DOCK,HANDLED,DELIVERED,PICKED UP A PIECE OF FREIGHT TO REPRESENT ME & MY COWORKERS,AND NEGOTIATECFer said:
A CONTRACT FOR US
:ShakeHandsNah: :rofl2: never even heard of these clowns until last year. just what everybody would want,them in the companies hip pocket
to represent us, don't think so,na.NoSpin,
I'll ask again.....how many people do you legally represent as their sole collective bargaining party? Any? If not, don't waste our time, you have no experience whatsoever at doing the things a real Union does everyday. Who in the hell wants to be represented by wannabees?
I'll ask again.....how many people do you legally represent as their sole collective bargaining party? Any? If not, don't waste our time, you have no experience whatsoever at doing the things a real Union does everyday. Who in the hell wants to be represented by wannabees?
wassesname
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in the early 1900s there were roughly 75 auto manufactures in the US most so small they were almost unheard of. some failed and some were bought out or mergered. today there are (only) three. is that anybodys fault, or is that the way business works? H.Ford was instrumental in the creation of the union and look at his co. now.
saddletramp
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You know nospin, I finially realized the the apwa boys have learned alot from tdu on how to "spin some real BS" and they got just the guy in you to put it out to the masses. Those pictures did not cost 45,000 dollars each, as they did not contract Piccaso to paint them.
But anything the Teamsters Adminstration does will always fall into scrutiny with you guys, since apwa as well as tdu does not have any solid base to stand on, other than gullible people like you who will follow the bread crumbs around to the rainbows end.
There is a phrase tha says "TDU- Too Dumb to Understand"
I would hope guys like you will open their eyes up and realize just what you are getting yourselves into with this bunch of discontented feeder drivers who felt they didnt want to pay thier union dues anymore and took the opportunity to do such, since they live in a right to work state.
I suggest you get on a search engine and read about how the Teamsters came into being well over 100 years ago, then you might start to realize how these offshoot groups come together to attempt to bust up real unions. Go to Wikepedia.org to read a unbiased article about the history of the Teamsters. Then you go read the "spins" of the other groups like TDU and your APWA. If you open your eyes you should bed able to figure out the truth for yourself.:rolleyes:
But anything the Teamsters Adminstration does will always fall into scrutiny with you guys, since apwa as well as tdu does not have any solid base to stand on, other than gullible people like you who will follow the bread crumbs around to the rainbows end.
There is a phrase tha says "TDU- Too Dumb to Understand"
I would hope guys like you will open their eyes up and realize just what you are getting yourselves into with this bunch of discontented feeder drivers who felt they didnt want to pay thier union dues anymore and took the opportunity to do such, since they live in a right to work state.
I suggest you get on a search engine and read about how the Teamsters came into being well over 100 years ago, then you might start to realize how these offshoot groups come together to attempt to bust up real unions. Go to Wikepedia.org to read a unbiased article about the history of the Teamsters. Then you go read the "spins" of the other groups like TDU and your APWA. If you open your eyes you should bed able to figure out the truth for yourself.:rolleyes:
BUTTONMAN74
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YA,ANIMO,also sounds pretty company/management sponsored to me alsoAnimo916 said:
kind of like the machinist at NEW ENGLAND MOTORFREIGHT[NEMF] this
sounds more like a corporate attorney
,than a truck/package car driver.isn't the right to work foundation also based out of N.C?,could it be that there out of the same office,just called different names,samething?,I think so.he really showed what agenda theirs is with his statements.BUTTONMAN74
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these their only couple members:jerkit: :d6625240:stldude44 said:
wow,their really got a strong,powerful movement!BUTTONMAN74
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here's a couple more who want to joinBUTTONMAN74 said:
:Fart: :bigfinger: BUTTONMAN74
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here's a couple more who want to joinBUTTONMAN74 said:
:Fart: :bigfinger: also,THEY REALLY ARE GROWING!BUTTONMAN74
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don't tell me you actually bought this clown'sSkeeter said:
:BS:? if you do,do you also believe in the easter bunny,santa clause,tooth fairy,snack fairy,apwa fairy nospinzone
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In reply....
Sorry for the length, but I wanted to address everyone's concerns. Its late and a long day tomorrow. Gnite for now.
Nospin
www.parcelworkers.com
I don’t see the comparison here. Its like apples and...oldsmobiles. The APWA charter and rules require that all officers must have been UPS employees for at least ten years. Hence, its reasonable to make the statement that this is a self-governed/self-represented union. You will actually know your business agent because he/she has been working with you for ten+ years. If you don’t like the performance of your elected officers, then you and your co-workers AT UPSF can vote them out. You don’t need approval of workers at five other companies to change the leadership. You and your co-workers votes are the only voices that matter.CFer said:
Now…I don’t see how James Hoffa or half the people at Teamsters fill that description. But I bet Skillman knows a thing or two about hauling doubles and driving trucks and dealing with the BS that UPS will soon be throwing at you. And since you would be voting for officers and business agents that work with you, they WILL know what its like to move freight and work a dock.BUTTONMAN74 said:
My reply to you---buttonman74 said:
---------www.parcelworkers.com said:
Currently the APWA is not a collective bargaining agent for any employee. I’ve never made the claim to the contrary. But you want to talk about experience. Hoffa had zero experience at running a union…let alone knowing first hand how the contract affected the voting members. When APWA officers sit at the negotiating table, they will have the 50+ years of UPS experience to assist them in the process. Fifty years of knowledge telling them what does need to be in the contract language and what doesnt belong there. Not even to mention the lawyers lined up by the APWA who have successfully negotiated contracts with numerous other companies and unions. Now, I can see that the idea of truck drivers representing truck drivers at the negotiating table with Buster alarms you a bit. It also alarms the Teamsters because they continue to send IBT international vice-presidents on the Teamsters dime to all of the APWA meetings.stldude44 said:
You’re right…you can’t blame Teamsters for the decline in trucking companies. But it was obviously a good thing for the IBT trustees and officers…..cause the way it stands now, IBT is responsible for tanking the monies of only fifteen companies participating in their multi-employer pension plans whereas it woulda been responsible for a helluva lot more!!wassesname said:
Check the sources I provided. Mr. John Howard Sanden, the gentleman that painted those pictures, charges quite a hefty fee. If you have some verifiable information to the contrary, I’ll gladly correct myself.saddletramp said:
I don’t consider myself gullible when reading about the felony convictions of Teamster officials or reading the reports of the Independent Special Counsel Honorable Frank J. McGarr who is responsible for reporting to a federal judge how under-funded the pension plans are. When it is in black and white like that, its not that hard to believe. And remember how only 60% of UPS contributions go to non-UPS employees? Imagine how muc better insurance and retirement benefits we'd be enjoyin if we got the whole 100%???saddletramp said:
That doesn’t seem to bother the drivers in Kentucky, Ohio, Indiana, Missouri, New Mexico, California, and Massachusets(all of which are non-right to work states) who seem very interested in what APWA has to offer—enough to have scheduled or requesting to schedule info meetings in those states.saddletramp said:
All I can say about Mr. BM’s comments above is…..should anyone choose to contact an APWA officer or fellow UPS’er that’s a part of this to question them and express your doubts, you wont get the demeaning name calling and intimidation that you see above. Regardless of how strongly you support or disagree with the APWA, you’ll get respect in return. Oddly enough to me, IBT has always resorted to name calling and character assassination when trying to win the confidence of members who choose to think independently and ask questions. It’s a rather odd way of recruitment, organizing, and maintaining the support of said members. But if its worked in the past (ie...organizing Overnite)....no sense in changing your methods now.buttonman74 said:
Sorry for the length, but I wanted to address everyone's concerns. Its late and a long day tomorrow. Gnite for now.
Nospin
www.parcelworkers.com
NoSpin,
You really should change your name. All this amounts to is typical TDU type politics in which the current leaders are attacked while those throwing the stones have no accomplishments to put forward. Negative campaigning at it's finest. Real Teamsters and Americans in general are tired of this type of garbage. Especially coming from guys who choose not to pay dues but still enjoy the benefits of the Teamsters.
You really should change your name. All this amounts to is typical TDU type politics in which the current leaders are attacked while those throwing the stones have no accomplishments to put forward. Negative campaigning at it's finest. Real Teamsters and Americans in general are tired of this type of garbage. Especially coming from guys who choose not to pay dues but still enjoy the benefits of the Teamsters.