HI'm done with you. You're a complete imbecile.
He's Docker, reregistered with a different name. So I'm putting him on ignore.I'm done with you. You're a complete imbecile.
HI'm done with you. You're a complete imbecile.
He's Docker, reregistered with a different name. So I'm putting him on ignore.I'm done with you. You're a complete imbecile.
My question with all this is do you expect 350 million people to agree to spend 20 Billion so 400,000 can retire? That is what it comes down to if the government comes in and saves the day according to Papa Johns numbers on how short the pension fund is. That is 57 dollars from the whole population of the U.S. Just a question cause the government already baled out the banks. Are they going to bankrupt one they saved to save 400,000 non corrupt teamsters? No one wanted to bale out the banks that I knew. Sorry I can't spell bail. I see both your points
Yes, in 2006 they had $20 billion, $27 billion in 2007 and since lost one-third of its assets. Then in just in just 15 months during 2008 and early 2009 losses about $11.1 billion in seed capital. Pension funds are supposed to stick to low and medium risks but that amount of loss suggests some very high risks in that short of time, financial crisis or no financial crisis.
YepA hypothetical question. If you were currently working, age 58, 30 years in the fund, and you were offered a lump sum of $200,000 to be rolled tax free into a 401K with all future contributions also directed to the 401K, would you take it and never look back?
If you were age 35, 10 years in the fund, offered a lump sum of $20,000 to be rolled tax free into a 401K with all future contributions also directed to the 401K, would you take it and never look back?
If you were 70 years old, retired, would you accept a lump sum of $150,000 rather than risk being cut to $1200 a month?
Not looking to argue.
Again, you have no answer to how to fix the problem. How do YOU propose to fix it. You have a big mouth, lets see if you have any brains.
And thats what the retirees want. Keep the pedal down until the the car goes off the cliff or runs out of gas. And to hell with those of us who have been giving gas money but dont have a ride.DJIA went from 13895 to 8000 in that same 15 month period.
$27B in the DJIA (not high risk by any measure) in 2007 would have been $15.5B (a loss of $11.5B)....
Elliot Blair Smiths opinion piece for MarketWatch that you cut and pasted from also stated: "Central States’ investments lost 29.81% in value during 2008 compared to the median loss for all Taft-Hartley Union plans of 20.46%; and a median loss of 26.37% at all Taft-Hartley plans with assets greater than $2 billion, according to data prepared for MarketWatch by Los Angeles-based Wilshire Associates."
That's a 3.44% delta between other large Taft-Hartley plans and the CSPF. So, if the CSPF was the median performing fund during that time you would have $3.31 going out for every $1 coming in.
You can blame the performance for a SMALL percentage of the current issue but the real issue is the abhorrent rate at which contributions are being made vs. the benefits being paid. The Teamsters can't triple that membership tomorrow, nor are they going to triple their assets in the market anytime soon, the only option is cut current benefits significantly or mash the accelerator as they head toward the cliff.
Its too late for investigations. That should have been done 10 years ago. The fund is drying up and fast. Again you have NO plan. You want to screw those of us still paying into this pit.After all I said in my post, this is all you have to say, you don't have much fight in you, do you? How do I propose to fix it, let's see, oh, that's right, how about everyone waiting to see what the investigation reveals first. See, unlike you, I don't try to jump the gun, the push was to start an investigation and now the best route would be to wait and just see what that reveals first. I know that you don't agree with that because you just wanted to accept the cuts and wasn't even concerned with any rhyme or reason why because you didn't care once the fear took hold. Your only question was how much.
As for my mouth being big, I assure you that's it's in relative proportion of the face.
A hypothetical question. If you were currently working, age 58, 30 years in the fund, and you were offered a lump sum of $200,000 to be rolled tax free into a 401K with all future contributions also directed to the 401K, would you take it and never look back?
If you were age 35, 10 years in the fund, offered a lump sum of $20,000 to be rolled tax free into a 401K with all future contributions also directed to the 401K, would you take it and never look back?
If you were 70 years old, retired, would you accept a lump sum of $150,000 rather than risk being cut to $1200 a month?
The government comes in and saves the day, thanks for my laugh for the day.Don't you think that's the right thing to do since they are the ones that ruined the day to begin with? That's not called saving the day, it's called accountability.
I appreciate you seeing both points, I do too but most of the pensioners aren't asking for a bailout, they're asking for restitution and believe it or not there is a big difference. A restitution is the restoration of something lost or stolen to its proper owner and a bailout is, like you said, the government coming in and saving the day.Since the government stuck their nose in to where it didn't belong, they should now be held accountable for their actions. You and I sure would be so why shouldn't they. The government should be investigating the root cause to see if there was any wrongdoing which they have only started doing now since the strong opposition. All those that are fighting really believe there was definitely a looting of the pension right under the governments watchful eye. A thorough investigation would just reveal those who are responsible and should be made to pay that restitution and if is revealed that the government itself was involved, so be it. But many of the people just won't acknowledge that fact because the governments money is there money. And to answer your question, do I expect 350 million people to agree to spend 20 Billion so 400,000 can retire, if it is found that the government was involved with the looting in any way, I sure do. I'm not saying I know everything but that is what I believe.
There are so many that believe that those fighting to save the pensions are asking for a bailout and you will never convince them otherwise but that couldn't be further from the truth. They just wanted to start with a thorough investigation into the matter which they had to fight for and just got and now, in my opinion, a legit investigation will show there was definitely wrongdoing and reveal just who all the culprits were.
DJIA went from 13895 to 8000 in that same 15 month period.
$27B in the DJIA (not high risk by any measure) in 2007 would have been $15.5B (a loss of $11.5B)....
Elliot Blair Smiths opinion piece for MarketWatch that you cut and pasted from also stated: "Central States’ investments lost 29.81% in value during 2008 compared to the median loss for all Taft-Hartley Union plans of 20.46%; and a median loss of 26.37% at all Taft-Hartley plans with assets greater than $2 billion, according to data prepared for MarketWatch by Los Angeles-based Wilshire Associates."
That's a 3.44% delta between other large Taft-Hartley plans and the CSPF. So, if the CSPF was the median performing fund during that time you would have $3.31 going out for every $1 coming in.
You can blame the performance for a SMALL percentage of the current issue but the real issue is the abhorrent rate at which contributions are being made vs. the benefits being paid. The Teamsters can't triple that membership tomorrow, nor are they going to triple their assets in the market anytime soon, the only option is cut current benefits significantly or mash the accelerator as they head toward the cliff.
They dont have an answer. They just want to "investigate" to buy more time for them to drain the fund. They dont give a :: about whats left for us because they will be in a pine box 6 feet down, not their problem.If the government doesn't do anything then who is saving the day? No intervention means certain bankruptcy. Im not saying they didn't cause this. I've been in this pension fund sence 2001. Its been in the danger zone the whole time I've been working in LTL. So why hasn't a peep been said about this until now by our union? Central States sends out a statement every year explaining the dire financial situation, correct? I got one anyway. Now explain how you are going to fix this? Where the money comes from. Exactly who it comes from.
Are you actually trying to impress me with all this information that you found on the internet, it says a whole lot about nothing?
nounionfool said:I would start saving now if I were you because you might just start having to pay once that investigation is done. Tell me, which Teamster fund are you in again?
Its too late for investigations. That should have been done 10 years ago. The fund is drying up and fast. Again you have NO plan. You want to screw those of us still paying into this pit.
I have almost 20 years paid at full rate pal. And I wont get :: from that because you will drain the fund to zero before I can get a check. We had some of you crybaby retirees come to our lunchroom looking for signatures and money for your "investigation" they were tossed out as soon as it was obvious who they were looking out for, THEMSELVES. well guess what, I need to look out for myself then too, give me back my 20 years of full rate payments and you retired meesters can run the fund into the ground. Oh and I have several relatives collecting that were slated to be cut in half and they agree with me. There is no fight to fight. The money is gone and NOBODY is going to put it back. You live in a fantasy world and its going to harm my retirement. But that is the mentality of your generation. You completely ****ed mine.Just take the time and actually listen to yourself here, its too late for investigations. I have news for you, it's never too late for investigations when someone is out to screw you. Here you are crying about those measly dimes that you have to pay when you don't hear a peep out of many that are still paying the full rate in. Tell me, when are you going to start crying about the union dues that you have to pay too?
If you think it says a whole lot about nothing, maybe I should dumb it down for you.
I don't remember what the DJIA was 3 months ago, so a little Googling helps me out, opposed to pulling numbers out of my ass.
You parrot the excuse that it was high risk investments and high admin fees that caused the failure. Fact is everybodys funds took a pretty big hit during that timeframe. Yours wasn't that much worse and you refuse to look at the real problem because it is too easy/convenient to just blame some greedy fund managers.
I have almost 20 years paid at full rate pal. And I wont get :::: from that because you will drain the fund to zero before I can get a check. We had some of you crybaby retirees come to our lunchroom looking for signatures and money for your "investigation" they were tossed out as soon as it was obvious who they were looking out for, THEMSELVES. well guess what, I need to look out for myself then too, give me back my 20 years of full rate payments and you retired meesters can run the fund into the ground. Oh and I have several relatives collecting that were slated to be cut in half and they agree with me. There is no fight to fight. The money is gone and NOBODY is going to put it back. You live in a fantasy world and its going to harm my retirement. But that is the mentality of your generation. You completely ****ed mine.
Here's the real picture, your trying to get the participants of the pension to accept the pay cuts of a fund that you are not even part of because you are defending the corrupt banking institutions, wall street thieves and the federal mafia.
If the government doesn't do anything then who is saving the day? No intervention means certain bankruptcy. Im not saying they didn't cause this. I've been in this pension fund sence 2001. Its been in the danger zone the whole time I've been working in LTL. So why hasn't a peep been said about this until now by our union? Central States sends out a statement every year explaining the dire financial situation, correct? I got one anyway. Now explain how you are going to fix this? Where the money comes from. Exactly who it comes from. I remember all the promises Tyson Johnson and Hoffa saying the fund was fine. What a joke.