ABF | IBT Backs Plan to Allow Some Pension Cuts

I don't want to see either Stoney's or Papajohn's pension reduced, or devalued, or forced to PBGI. Fact of the matter is that there is , I think, around 40 different pension plans that ABF is involved with. One size answer does not fit, nor does it make for a solution for pensions that fall in the Red Zone under the Pension Protection act of 2006. I think, if you read.... carefully..., Stoney,..... Brother PapaJohn said "a solution for ALL Teamsters" in there somewhere. I think there are very, very few of us whose morals would permit profiting off of someone elses' misery directly. Since ABF, by law, can't withdraw from the 40 or so, individual pension plans, and since a one-size-fits-all answer won't work, I think what will happen is that ABF will try to negotiate the amount they pay weekly (actually part of your wage packet, if you look at it properly....) to the pension funds, lower than what it is now. The amount negotiated for Pension and Health and Welfare is standard throughout the nation....it is up to the individual Trustees of each Plan to determine how that money is split. ABF's crying about "orphans" and "unfunded mandates" is a little disingenuous. ABF's negotiated monthly payout for pension costs does not change for the life of the contract.....all ABF is worried about is several of the severely under-funded plans going to PBGI,..and ABF having to....under the PPA of 2006 ...pony up about 20% more to cover those costs. If they can talk us into accepting less of a weekly payout into the Pension/ H&W funds, they could set aside the savings to offset the cost of one,...or several, of these funds tripping the Critical status trigger under the PPA of 2006........sort of a "rainy day" fund in case of failure of a teamster pension plan. Or several. And......if no fund fails during the life of the new contract.........well, we'll regard that as money ABF found under the couch cushions, as it were..........But,...if we vote for less money for the Pension/H&W contribution......that will inexolerably start the slide into insolvency for some of the funds out there. ABF has to be very careful in what they propose in as much as they could save some money short-term, only to have to pay out big-time long-term. We have to be careful in what we accept.
 
Just a little perspective from an older Teamster about how much of a dog I have in this fight. I started in 1975.....had 9 carriers close under me.....got involved as an owner/operator under a Union contract, and when that went south,...I continued as an O/O....leading up to a break-in-service......by six months....for all my time prior to 1992. So I'm almost 60....with only 20 years credited service. That's all. In other words....I'm here for the long haul....in spite of being 2 years from normal retirement age. I'm sure there are many, many older Teamsters who are in the same boat I'm in.....age,..not enough time. So let's not let this conversation disintegrate into "older vs. younger". After deregulation,...it's just not that simple.
 
Fellas, have no fear, the Teamsters are not going anywhere, they are now IN the trucking industry, remember......they now have a 25% stake in YRCW!
 
(1)Turncoat ABF hired you for a reason........ABF got you for 85 %.....

(2)You said your putting all your faith into the union to do whats right for you....

(3)I keep hearing lets fix the pension, I know it needs fixing....

(4)ABF also can enjoy somewhat what YRCW has now. All they have to do its utilize the utility drivers............

(5)Another waste of money is what is going on at some of the smaller terminals, I know a few of them have as many management people as they do drivers....

(6)I still don’t know why people came from other companies, after they voted for changes, and now want to give away everything we have and have worked for.

Papa, I'll give you a last response on your rant here, and I'm hoping for the best in these negotiations, but this ain't my first rodeo.

First, ABF hired me because I applied...pretty much a slam dunk, I'm not the best, just one of the best! Actually, they had already hired another guy that was below me on the seniority list at YRC, but he got cold feet before the old ABF hand retired that he would be replacing, so that opened the door for me. I was already at 85% with the pay cut at YRC, but, now I am at 90% and was always at 100% pension contributions (after 30 days) instead of 25% (now being paid at YRC), which hopefully will give me better retirement income options down the road. That is what costs ABF, not so much my hourly wage. I essentially gave up 3 weeks vacation and the top spot at YRC to make the move. I had 5 weeks, we lost 1 week, and I burned the 4 I was holding over at YRC in the transition, one year later I had earned 1 week here so, it was a 3 week loss there, but it has been worth it! ABF didn't necessarily get a free lunch by hiring me.

Second, we all know the Union looks out for the Union, but they negotiate on OUR behalf with the Company. My faith is in the Lord Jesus, I am thankful to be at ABF, not because I'm so brilliant, but by His Grace.

Third, the pension situation is going to get fixed, the sooner the better. Wouldn't you like to have more control over your retirement benefits? And some REAL guarantees for vested payments on YOUR behalf? The longer this is put off, the worse it will become, and you could be retired, physically unable to work any longer, and get a sad letter in the mail that your check is going to be cut 60-70%. That is the current reality. The reforms that they are exploring are to prevent that from happening, and we probably won't get to vote on much. There will be options you can choose, the more years you have paid in, the better your options will probably be. Is that fair? What's fair? That is just probably what's going to happen. What's been paid in on us, we will still benefit from, at least hopefully, 85% or more of it. Then we save until we retire. The younger guys, whether or not they are vested, will have to save most, or all of theirs, with a company match. and ABF see's light at the end of the tunnel to one day pay-out of their unfunded liabilities. You and I will most likely be pushing up daises somewhere by then. This very thing happened to my Dad in the paper industry many years ago, He still has a stable pension check to this day, however he did not manage his 401k very well after he retired, but that was his own fault. But, he is now in an assisted living home, and his pension and SS cover the bills, so we are blessed.

Fourth, I run Utility, when the bid man is out. He was out on medical about 2 months recently. It is quite an efficient operation, but it cannot replace relay drivers. Our gig is 395 miles a night, with a pass-over, and about 2 hrs on the dock in ATL, and yes, you do all your hooks, bumps and work your freight, on a tight schedule. IT IS A JOB! But fellas, I can't pull but 2 pups a night, inbound and outbound, so the way I see it, the only person's job I'm doing, is MINE! But, it pays good and it's 4x10 M-T Off F-S-S. Usually about 44 hrs. a week. Therefore, the bid man stays on the run when he comes back. But I've had many road drivers complain about how the UE operation is killing the road board. We just need to be hauling more freight, I can't haul it all! But if, I only have one box full, and the man tells me to go out on the yard and get a load in the line haul stage that is going back home or to my pass-over, I have to do it, but that doesn't happen too often, and usually the road board is exhausted anyway.

Fifth, In our small terminal, we have one manager, and a salesman. We, the drivers, open and close the terminal. He comes in 7 a.m.- 5 p.m. and puts the fires out. He expects us to run the operation efficiently. When he's away, meetings, off- time, etc., we are managed remotely. Our terminal is now on PDA's and we are able to do 99% of the operation on the PDA.

Sixth, this is still AMERICA, I'll work wherever I want to, if the Employer is willing to take a chance on me. I am hopeful we will get a reasonable contract that the majority can feel good voting for. When we were going through what we went through at YRC, I never even dreamed a couple years later I would be at ABF, but, I had been exploring options. I still don't think YRC would have remained open without the concessions, and the Union pushed it through on New Penn and the Chicago YRC Local's that voted it down. Went as far with New Penn as to tell them they would close New Penn and dissolve them from the corporation and told Chicago they would allow a COO to close them. It was really sad, but the big money had them by the balls.....we don't want to see ABF go deeply into debt, trust me it's not good, and I think they're too smart for that. Been there, done that, with the Carolina deal!
And. as far as folks coming from other companies, I know a guy that came over from Con-Way, works in another terminal, doesn't even belong to the Union...Alabama is right-to-work, but, BA said, "I hope he never has a serious problem" with a wink,...just sayin! I may be stupid and uninformed, but I pay my dues, and I don't have much use for a free-loader! Hope I wasn't unclear!
 
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How many times will you vote too keep your job before you say enough is enough?
Something makes me think he'll vote yes as many times as he can. Some people are just that way.
 
Papa, I'll give you a last response on your rant here, and I'm hoping for the best in these negotiations, but this ain't my first rodeo.

First, ABF hired me because I applied...pretty much a slam dunk, I'm not the best, just one of the best!
Now why don't you tell papajohn how you followed your TM over to ABF???
 
Now why don't you tell papajohn how you followed your TM over to ABF???

Well, if it makes you feel any better, the old boy got canned about a year after he hired me. Can't discuss the details here, but I did hate it happened to him. Like I said, I had a lot of different things happen that made the decision easier for me. Knowing the boss was a plus, being a pretty decent driver didn't hurt. By the way, the guy called me recently, has another gig now, told me if I ever needed a job or recommendation, give him a call. So, a real Teamster can't be friends with his TM? I've only been transparent about my voting record, and my point of view. But, I'm trashed because I voted my conscience....and, I can get along with people I work for??? Yea, I'm one of them type! Happy, Happy, Happy! You got me pegged! Darnit!
 
Well, if it makes you feel any better, the old boy got canned about a year after he hired me. Can't discuss the details here, but I did hate it happened to him. Like I said, I had a lot of different things happen that made the decision easier for me. Knowing the boss was a plus, being a pretty decent driver didn't hurt. By the way, the guy called me recently, has another gig now, told me if I ever needed a job or recommendation, give him a call. So, a real Teamster can't be friends with his TM? I've only been transparent about my voting record, and my point of view. But, I'm trashed because I voted my conscience....and, I can get along with people I work for??? Yea, I'm one of them type! Happy, Happy, Happy! You got me pegged! Darnit!
Doesn't make me feel any better or worse, I didn't know the guy. I show up for work on time every day, do my job, haven't heard of a customer complaint in I don't know how many years, couple of accidents in my history-nothing major, very few mistakes, don't bring back messes for the dockworkers to clean up, sup tells me that when I tell him I'm out of room I really am and I'm proud of all of it. And in some strange way I'm also proud to say that my former sups and managers don't call me.
 
Time to get off the Trucking Boards. the wife is giving me that look....yea, I'm henpecked too..
 
Papa, I'll give you a last response on your rant here, and I'm hoping for the best in these negotiations, but this ain't my first rodeo.

First, ABF hired me because I applied...pretty much a slam dunk, I'm not the best, just one of the best! Actually, they had already hired another guy that was below me on the seniority list at YRC, but he got cold feet before the old ABF hand retired that he would be replacing, so that opened the door for me. I was already at 85% with the pay cut at YRC, but, now I am at 90% and was always at 100% pension contributions (after 30 days) instead of 25% (now being paid at YRC), which hopefully will give me better retirement income options down the road. That is what costs ABF, not so much my hourly wage. I essentially gave up 3 weeks vacation and the top spot at YRC to make the move. I had 5 weeks, we lost 1 week, and I burned the 4 I was holding over at YRC in the transition, one year later I had earned 1 week here so, it was a 3 week loss there, but it has been worth it! ABF didn't necessarily get a free lunch by hiring me.

Second, we all know the Union looks out for the Union, but they negotiate on OUR behalf with the Company. My faith is in the Lord Jesus, I am thankful to be at ABF, not because I'm so brilliant, but by His Grace.

Third, the pension situation is going to get fixed, the sooner the better. Wouldn't you like to have more control over your retirement benefits? And some REAL guarantees for vested payments on YOUR behalf? The longer this is put off, the worse it will become, and you could be retired, physically unable to work any longer, and get a sad letter in the mail that your check is going to be cut 60-70%. That is the current reality. The reforms that they are exploring are to prevent that from happening, and we probably won't get to vote on much. There will be options you can choose, the more years you have paid in, the better your options will probably be. Is that fair? What's fair? That is just probably what's going to happen. What's been paid in on us, we will still benefit from, at least hopefully, 85% or more of it. Then we save until we retire. The younger guys, whether or not they are vested, will have to save most, or all of theirs, with a company match. and ABF see's light at the end of the tunnel to one day pay-out of their unfunded liabilities. You and I will most likely be pushing up daises somewhere by then. This very thing happened to my Dad in the paper industry many years ago, He still has a stable pension check to this day, however he did not manage his 401k very well after he retired, but that was his own fault. But, he is now in an assisted living home, and his pension and SS cover the bills, so we are blessed.

Fourth, I run Utility, when the bid man is out. He was out on medical about 2 months recently. It is quite an efficient operation, but it cannot replace relay drivers. Our gig is 395 miles a night, with a pass-over, and about 2 hrs on the dock in ATL, and yes, you do all your hooks, bumps and work your freight, on a tight schedule. IT IS A JOB! But fellas, I can't pull but 2 pups a night, inbound and outbound, so the way I see it, the only person's job I'm doing, is MINE! But, it pays good and it's 4x10 M-T Off F-S-S. Usually about 44 hrs. a week. Therefore, the bid man stays on the run when he comes back. But I've had many road drivers complain about how the UE operation is killing the road board. We just need to be hauling more freight, I can't haul it all! But if, I only have one box full, and the man tells me to go out on the yard and get a load in the line haul stage that is going back home or to my pass-over, I have to do it, but that doesn't happen too often, and usually the road board is exhausted anyway.

Fifth, In our small terminal, we have one manager, and a salesman. We, the drivers, open and close the terminal. He comes in 7 a.m.- 5 p.m. and puts the fires out. He expects us to run the operation efficiently. When he's away, meetings, off- time, etc., we are managed remotely. Our terminal is now on PDA's and we are able to do 99% of the operation on the PDA.

Sixth, this is still AMERICA, I'll work wherever I want to, if the Employer is willing to take a chance on me. I am hopeful we will get a reasonable contract that the majority can feel good voting for. When we were going through what we went through at YRC, I never even dreamed a couple years later I would be at ABF, but, I had been exploring options. I still don't think YRC would have remained open without the concessions, and the Union pushed it through on New Penn and the Chicago YRC Local's that voted it down. Went as far with New Penn as to tell them they would close New Penn and dissolve them from the corporation and told Chicago they would allow a COO to close them. It was really sad, but the big money had them by the balls.....we don't want to see ABF go deeply into debt, trust me it's not good, and I think they're too smart for that. Been there, done that, with the Carolina deal!
And. as far as folks coming from other companies, I know a guy that came over from Con-Way, works in another terminal, doesn't even belong to the Union...Alabama is right-to-work, but, BA said, "I hope he never has a serious problem" with a wink,...just sayin! I may be stupid and uninformed, but I pay my dues, and I don't have much use for a free-loader! Hope I wasn't unclear!

1st. First, ABF hired me because I applied. Do you really believe they just hired you because you applied, I think maybe there had to be a opening to be filled, that's why you were hired, they need a body. I am sure you are a good worker, that's why you were hired.

2nd. No argument

3rd. I never said the pension don't need to be fixed. I did say that the guys getting ready to retire now or in the near future should not have to face deep pension cuts, their pensions have already been paid in full. We need to make sure all pensions are protected for all retired teamsters, and retirees of the future.

Stoney to answer your question, If for 30 years of service and you get $3000. a month, then yes I could give up 5%, I don't think it's right, but I could live with that. and to tell you the truth I would be better off with that since I would be getting a raise on my pension. I was not ignoring you I just wanted you to read and understand what I was saying, but unfortunately you never did see it, now tell me what are you willing to give up to to guarantee the pension fund to survive?

4th. I just made a statement that we already have to option for Utility Drivers, and Yes it can save the company money, I have done both jobs, so I know both sides. I am not saying I want this to take Road Jobs away, but I think the company does.

5th. sounds to me like your terminal has the right amount of management. but when I see as many management as I do drivers I have to wonder.

6th. You can work wherever you want. but I do know at YRCW the employees were not told the truth about their vote.The sad part they were misled by the company and the union. I bet you if most had to do it over you may see a different result, that is just my guess.
 
Well, papa, I was just answering your evaluation of me, and it was sarcasm, I hope you understand, that ABF hired me because I applied. You see, me and ABFer have a pretty high opinion of ourselves. I only made decisions that I felt were correct at the time, and I will vote for any proposals that I feel are fair. A lot of guys won't even return their ballot, and they want to B**TCH the most. Trust me, I followed the YRCW mess very close, and it was, and still is in the tank. They boast about making 26 million dollars, but if they had to make the $100 million in pension payments that would be -$74 million, with $150 million a year in interest payments, they would be bankrupt. They will take another haircut in 2015 I'm afraid. I'm just going to try and do ABF a decent job and see what happens.
 
Doesn't make me feel any better or worse, I didn't know the guy. I show up for work on time every day, do my job, haven't heard of a customer complaint in I don't know how many years, couple of accidents in my history-nothing major, very few mistakes, don't bring back messes for the dockworkers to clean up, sup tells me that when I tell him I'm out of room I really am and I'm proud of all of it. And in some strange way I'm also proud to say that my former sups and managers don't call me.

That's right, you didn't know the guy, I've known him over 25 years, and he has my phone number......
 
Well guys I get hammered as an A$$kissn, MeaSter quite often, pretty thick skin here, never cried on my keyboard while reading posts about how trashy I was, but, to get back on topic, I am glad that there is a serious commission on this issue, and that Hoffa is on board. Now being the MeaSter you all know I am, I certainly don't want to sacrifice any of my pension, but, I certainly don't want to retire, and later when I need it most, expect the broke government to prop up the thing when it cannot sustain it's obligations, and ABF could never make enough money to keep it alive when they are the only company left paying the full contribution. It has to change, and it will change, and the farther the can is kicked down the road, the more difficult the change will be.
 
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