Holland | One Board

[Osprey]

Yes, One Board, Road Go To The Bottom

I keep hearing that the road drivers are getting the shaft if they follow the "UE work is city work" language. But on the flip side of that, if the proposal is authorized, the city guys get the shaft. Here is how. (for those who don't agree) The city man with 9 years on the city board can get bumped down from the 10 year linehaul guy. The city man didn't plan to get bumped either! Both ways stink guys. There is no fair way to either side. My opinion.

NF, you know this just as much as anyone else, there are people who sign up with Holland for city work, and people who sign up for the road, creating 2 boards as is always has been, all of a sudden the road people want one board, and they want to dove tail? no way, how about if we make it 1 board and the road people go to the bottom of the list, I'm all for that, how about you, no, wait, then someone will be complaining about the work. Then we will have to go to 2 boards again, a vicious circle I must say. I say leave it the way it is and next contract ( if there is one)every member including the road people who constantly complain about this agreement, should read and understand what we all are agreeing to, that simple.

Don't forget 70%, give or take a few percentage points, agreed to this mess, and you can't tell me that 70% did not read or understood what they were agreeing to. And if you are one of the 70% that did, you deserve what you got. Just Lumper's opinion is all.


GBA:USA:

 

[Osprey]

I think the main issue with many people is because its been the same way for I know over thirty years, talking with the old guys. Maybe its hard to change it after its been one way for so long?

It's hard to change it because it's not RIGHT!! not because of past practice or longevity or what the OLD guys say!


GBA:USA:

 

[Doogie396]

NF, you know this just as much as anyone else, there are people who sign up with Holland for city work, and people who sign up for the road, creating 2 boards as is always has been, all of a sudden the road people want one board, and they want to dove tail? no way, how about if we make it 1 board and the road people go to the bottom of the list, I'm all for that, how about you, no, wait, then someone will be complaining about the work. Then we will have to go to 2 boards again, a vicious circle I must say. I say leave it the way it is and next contract ( if there is one)every member including the road people who constantly complain about this agreement, should read and understand what we all are agreeing to, that simple.

Don't forget 70%, give or take a few percentage points, agreed to this mess, and you can't tell me that 70% did not read or understood what they were agreeing to. And if you are one of the 70% that did, you deserve what you got. Just Lumper's opinion is all.


GBA:USA:

If you were paying attention at all you would understand that the lastest proposal from the company is different than what we voted on. I suggest you talk to your BA and have him fill you in. If it were the language that was in the contract I would not be complaining, I would not like it, but I would deal with what the foolish voted in.

 

[Osprey]

Why pay attention is only your livelihood.

If you were paying attention at all you would understand that the lastest proposal from the company is different than what we voted on. I suggest you talk to your BA and have him fill you in. If it were the language that was in the contract I would not be complaining, I would not like it, but I would deal with what the foolish voted in.

Talking to a BA is like talking to a gifted mentally challenged person, he thinks he is making sense so you just humor him. As far as the UE, that was in the contract from the beginning, and that is what most people have a gripe about and what 70% of the people voted on.

I don't understand what you are saying. Let me see if I can make some sense out of this, you are saying that the latest proposal from the Company was different than what you voted on,? so, was the latest proposal, better? or what.

The way you make it sound is as if the Union forced you to vote before the final proposal from the Company was made and after it was made, like ah, it was better than the initial proposal,? is that what you are saying?

As far as the language in the contract, it was ENGLISH! ( Like BH says "Speak English or get out" ), if you did not understand what was written you should not have voted until your BA:Poke: explained it to you.

So it was you who were not paying attention. Right Pal? No, seriously though, explain to me what you were trying to say. You are not one of THOSE 70%'rs are you.


GBA:USA:

 

[Hooddock]

OK, the way it has been explained to us in LO, that is where there are two different boards, city and road.

If you started with Holland as a city man and then went to the road, after lets say two years. You would have given up your two years city seniority and started on the bottom of the road board. After you have been on the road for ten years, they now hang a UE bid. You bid on the UE and get it. You then go to the city board with your ten years of road bidding seniority. It is what your bidding seniority is no matter which board you are on when you are awarded the UE bid. You would bid in April with ten years seniority, you will be dovetailed on to the city seniority board, where ever you fall with your ten years. You still have twelve years company seniority but only ten years of bidding seniority. The people that are hurting the most are guys that may have five years in with Holland and changed over to a different board in the last year or so. They go below people that have been on the same board, city or road, longer than they have been on which ever board they are now on. It works the same way no matter if you went from road to city or city to road. Who knows what will happen next?

What happens when your local does not dovetail!! Looks to me this is going to get ugly real quick.

 

[Benny Hill]

What happens when your local does not dovetail!!

I don't understand what you're asking? We have three UE bids already before this second COO. This is how it happened in the first COO and the way we voted it in when we (not me either) voted for the contract. One of the three men that was awarded a UE bid from the first COO was a road man. He is now a city man, on the city board. He brought his road board bidding seniority with him and was dovetailed in to the city seniority board. City men see it one way and road men see it another. Both boards have good points. Unfortunately, somebody is going to get done dirty. Who it ends up being is up to the contract and maybe even the court system, in the end. The contract (flyer's and memos) spells out an exact way that things are to be done and if it isn't done that way people must do, what they have to do, to protect themselves. Not many people are happy right now (city or road) and I don't think they ever will be because there is so much distrust toward our leadership over what has been done to us all. Tyson J. told our BA that if he hadn't done, what he had to do, to get the contract passed we wouldn't have a job right now. We should have been told the truth, in the beginning and then allowed to vote the way we chose to and live with our decision, thats my opinion on that matter. We are all adults and we should have been given the facts and then decided for ourselves what we were doing. We were misguided by our leaders because they didn't trust us to make the correct decision.

 

[grimreaper]

nf, you know this just as much as anyone else, there are people who sign up with holland for city work, and people who sign up for the road, creating 2 boards as is always has been, all of a sudden the road people want one board, and they want to dove tail? No way, how about if we make it 1 board and the road people go to the bottom of the list, i'm all for that, how about you, no, wait, then someone will be complaining about the work. Then we will have to go to 2 boards again, a vicious circle i must say. I say leave it the way it is and next contract ( if there is one)every member including the road people who constantly complain about this agreement, should read and understand what we all are agreeing to, that simple.

Don't forget 70%, give or take a few percentage points, agreed to this mess, and you can't tell me that 70% did not read or understood what they were agreeing to. And if you are one of the 70% that did, you deserve what you got. Just lumper's opinion is all.


Gba

look at your brother uz layoffs are massive .... Say good bye and good luck

 

[Northern Flash]

I would agree with that if it were not for one thing. The union philosophy has always been seniority is everything, and I'm pretty sure that means company seniority, not board seniority.

I do agree that seniority is all that we have. But......In a two board system, if the boards start dovetailing, someone gets screwed. I have always said that no matter how this plays out, one classification gets the shaft. So, I go back to the tie breaker..........THE CONTRACT! I do agree with you that they are not interpreting the contract the same way some of us do. But, that is why we should have voted this p.o.s. contract down until they clarified the gray areas. Now we are subject to THEIR interpretations, which are not in some of our favor. One board is starting to look more fair to me, if it were to come to that option. Good debate gents.

 

[Northern Flash]

OK, the way it has been explained to us in LO, that is where there are two different boards, city and road.

If you started with Holland as a city man and then went to the road, after lets say two years. You would have given up your two years city seniority and started on the bottom of the road board. After you have been on the road for ten years, they now hang a UE bid. You bid on the UE and get it. You then go to the city board with your ten years of road bidding seniority. It is what your bidding seniority is no matter which board you are on when you are awarded the UE bid. You would bid in April with ten years seniority, you will be dovetailed on to the city seniority board, where ever you fall with your ten years. You still have twelve years company seniority but only ten years of bidding seniority. The people that are hurting the most are guys that may have five years in with Holland and changed over to a different board in the last year or so. They go below people that have been on the same board, city or road, longer than they have been on which ever board they are now on. It works the same way no matter if you went from road to city or city to road. Who knows what will happen next?

To add to your post. I think the key statement is that your seniority, in whatever classification you are in currently, is what you would take to the UE position. Then if at a later date you get bumped out of that UE job, you still do not get to take your company seniority to the city board, you dovetail in where your last board seniority puts you. Which is the same seniority that got you the UE position. If you switched boards, you will never get your company seniority back for bidding purposes. Your company seniority will only hold for lay off, vac. etc. It seems that some people think that they will somehow get their company seniority back. They won't.

 

[wolf]

I don't understand what you're asking? We have three UE bids already before this second COO. This is how it happened in the first COO and the way we voted it in when we (not me either) voted for the contract. One of the three men that was awarded a UE bid from the first COO was a road man. He is now a city man, on the city board. He brought his road board bidding seniority with him and was dovetailed in to the city seniority board. City men see it one way and road men see it another. Both boards have good points. Unfortunately, somebody is going to get done dirty. Who it ends up being is up to the contract and maybe even the court system, in the end. The contract (flyer's and memos) spells out an exact way that things are to be done and if it isn't done that way people must do, what they have to do, to protect themselves. Not many people are happy right now (city or road) and I don't think they ever will be because there is so much distrust toward our leadership over what has been done to us all. Tyson J. told our BA that if he hadn't done, what he had to do, to get the contract passed we wouldn't have a job right now. We should have been told the truth, in the beginning and then allowed to vote the way we chose to and live with our decision, thats my opinion on that matter. We are all adults and we should have been given the facts and then decided for ourselves what we were doing. We were misguided by our leaders because they didn't trust us to make the correct decision.

Personaly if. as you say, he fudged the truth or misled to get the outcome he wanted. his credibility is shot, no mater what his reasoning. NOW, what was he really worrying about? Probably never know for sure cuz if his lips are moving he's lieing in my book. I think had the "take or no job" been thown out it would have passed by a larger margin anyway but at least my respect would have been intact.

 

[Doogie396]

Talking to a BA is like talking to a gifted mentally challenged person, he thinks he is making sense so you just humor him. As far as the UE, that was in the contract from the beginning, and that is what most people have a gripe about and what 70% of the people voted on.

I don't understand what you are saying. Let me see if I can make some sense out of this, you are saying that the latest proposal from the Company was different than what you voted on,? so, was the latest proposal, better? or what.

Yes. Since the company has not wanted to implement the UE as it was stated in the contract they have offered a new proposal to the union through the commitee. This was at the first meeting in Arizona in the beginning of September (yes, after the contract was voted in). This will not be up to a vote, so you are now looking for the union to protect our jobs. Good luck with that.

The way you make it sound is as if the Union forced you to vote before the final proposal from the Company was made and after it was made, like ah, it was better than the initial proposal,? is that what you are saying?

As far as the language in the contract, it was ENGLISH! ( Like BH says "Speak English or get out" ), if you did not understand what was written you should not have voted until your BA:Poke: explained it to you.

So it was you who were not paying attention. Right Pal? No, seriously though, explain to me what you were trying to say. You are not one of THOSE 70%'rs are you.

I did understand what the contract said, it apparently is the company that could not understand it. It had way to many gray areas in it to vote it in, in my opinion. That is why I voted no on it. I have never voted yes on the first thing put in front of me, the same as i don't walk in to a car dealer and say yes to his first offer. I will never understand the sheep who vote in the first offer. Does anyone think that the company is going to let it go to a strike in these competitive times. Doubtful. The gray areas are the fault of the union as much as the company. Hoffa is a lawyer for Christ sake, are you telling me he can't do any better than that? Why people trusted a lawyer to be in charge of the union is a whole different arguement.

 

[Hooddock]

I don't understand what you're asking? We have three UE bids already before this second COO. This is how it happened in the first COO and the way we voted it in when we (not me either) voted for the contract. One of the three men that was awarded a UE bid from the first COO was a road man. He is now a city man, on the city board. He brought his road board bidding seniority with him and was dovetailed in to the city seniority board. City men see it one way and road men see it another. Both boards have good points. Unfortunately, somebody is going to get done dirty. Who it ends up being is up to the contract and maybe even the court system, in the end. The contract (flyer's and memos) spells out an exact way that things are to be done and if it isn't done that way people must do, what they have to do, to protect themselves. Not many people are happy right now (city or road) and I don't think they ever will be because there is so much distrust toward our leadership over what has been done to us all. Tyson J. told our BA that if he hadn't done, what he had to do, to get the contract passed we wouldn't have a job right now. We should have been told the truth, in the beginning and then allowed to vote the way we chose to and live with our decision, thats my opinion on that matter. We are all adults and we should have been given the facts and then decided for ourselves what we were doing. We were misguided by our leaders because they didn't trust us to make the correct decision.

The problem we face (JO)with that is the road is NMFA and the city is not.Road dovetails the city does not.Our one UE bid is covered by a city man.The road steward has made it clear to me and anyone I know that has asked him that the UE is city work so cover it with city men.A little thought on the Tyson J comment,if they lose all of us because of threatning our jobs,he certianly should not have his either.No need for so called leadership with no members.

 

[Benny Hill]

Your company seniority will only hold for lay off, vac. etc.

As far as a layoff would go, at least here at our barn, it will be your current board (classification) seniority, not your company seniority. We have two separate boards but we don't have a year and a day here.

 

[La8Fr8]

utility drivers

I know this is going to cause some hard feelings ,But in my opinion I think that Utility work should be a road bid its the same job as the so called premeium driver that is already in the contract.If your going to get into a truck and run 300 to 500 miles weather your unloading your own trailer or not its road work.Also if you bid on that position weather you are a road driver or a city driver and you bid off of it or get bumped off of it ,you should go back to the board that you were on pryer to taking the bid ,If a road driver takes one of these bids and gets off of it he should not be forced to go into the city he should go back on the road and visa versa for the city man .Also the utility man should not be loading or unloading anyones trailer but his own.Not going into a forieghn terminal and unloading every road mans trailer that comes throu there making a drop .They are not only costing the company money by doing the work of the road guy that is suppost to be making his own drop that is now just sitting there while the utility guy is getting clock time for doing work that is not his and the road guy that is just sitting there on the clock waiting while the utility guy unloads him ,so the company is paying twice to get one guys work done .The utility guy needs to unload his load reload his load and get moving ,not hang around doing work that he isnt suppost to be doing just to get the clock time,Come on I know for a fack one guy that gets 5 hours every night sucking the clock and walking around ,doing nothing ,to me thats steeling time.I think they need to look at this a little closer and some one needs to police these guys .All our freight is on skids how can it take a guy 5 hours every night to unload a trailer? I work the road and I can hop on a tow motor and unload a trailer that is all skids a half hour .I cant see where these utility bids are saving anything ,they are costing the company if you ask me ,and its the same with those long doubles,thats another looser ,Its ok for truck load freight but for ltl by the time you wait 3 hours for your other trailer take an hour to hook it pull it half way to Chicago to south Bend then drop it and mess around that load could of already been in Chicago ? What do they think they are saving by doing that plus they are making all that freight late for service? I dont get it? Maybe someone could explain it to me?Im not trying to be a smart *** ,I am serious I dont see the advantage to either one of those opperations?? Do you ?

 

[La8Fr8]

I thought that the ue position was suppost to be for new business and would not be at the expence of any roar jobs?? So who is Bullshitting who??

 

[Benny Hill]

Late Freight, you're correct in what you're saying. The problem is that it may be to late to do anything about it, short of a lawsuit. Most everything you say is the way it should be, but as far as the UE job being road work it isn't. Its city work because that's the way it was put in the contract, right or wrong, that's the way it is. There should have been a third board for UE only, I agree but this to was not put in the contract.

I would say that the biggest difference between road and city bids, is that the road man makes his money by getting from one place to the next place quickly, more miles more money. The city man, on the other hand gets paid by the hour, the longer it takes the more he makes. I'm not saying that anyone should drag their feet to milk the clock, but I am saying that if you're a city man, the faster you go the less you make. So, a road man is in a hurry so he can make more money in less time and a city man isn't in a hurry so he can make more money in more time. Its always been this way, we all know that though. Nobody wants to loose anything but someone is going to loose in this UE deal, will it be city or road, that's the only question left to answer now.

 

[Northern Flash]

As far as a layoff would go, at least here at our barn, it will be your current board (classification) seniority, not your company seniority. We have two separate boards but we don't have a year and a day here.

We don't have a year and a day here either Benny. But, what I mean by "your company seniority protects you from lay off", is that up here our guys just switch boards if they have enough whiskers, when it comes to lay off. So your COMPANY seniority DOES help protect you from lay off. Isn't that what your guys do?:smilie_132:

 

[Northern Flash]

I know this is going to cause some hard feelings ,But in my opinion I think that Utility work should be a road bid its the same job as the so called premium driver that is already in the contract.If your going to get into a truck and run 300 to 500 miles weather your unloading your own trailer or not its road work.Also if you bid on that position weather you are a road driver or a city driver and you bid off of it or get bumped off of it ,you should go back to the board that you were on prayer to taking the bid ,If a road driver takes one of these bids and gets off of it he should not be forced to go into the city he should go back on the road and visa versa for the city man .Also the utility man should not be loading or unloading anyone's trailer but his own.Not going into a foreign terminal and unloading every road mans trailer that comes through there making a drop .They are not only costing the company money by doing the work of the road guy that is supposed to be making his own drop that is now just sitting there while the utility guy is getting clock time for doing work that is not his and the road guy that is just sitting there on the clock waiting while the utility guy unloads him ,so the company is paying twice to get one guys work done .The utility guy needs to unload his load reload his load and get moving ,not hang around doing work that he isnt suppost to be doing just to get the clock time,Come on I know for a fake one guy that gets 5 hours every night sucking the clock and walking around ,doing nothing ,to me that's stealing time.I think they need to look at this a little closer and some one needs to police these guys .All our freight is on skids how can it take a guy 5 hours every night to unload a trailer? I work the road and I can hop on a tow motor and unload a trailer that is all skids a half hour .I cant see where these utility bids are saving anything ,they are costing the company if you ask me ,and its the same with those long doubles,that's another looser ,Its ok for truck load freight but for little by the time you wait 3 hours for your other trailer take an hour to hook it pull it half way to Chicago to south Bend then drop it and mess around that load could of already been in Chicago ? What do they think they are saving by doing that plus they are making all that freight late for service? I don't get it? Maybe someone could explain it to me?I'm not trying to be a smart *** ,I am serious I don't see the advantage to either one of those operations?? Do you ?

Although I do agree with several of your points on the way it should be. Unfortunately, it is not written in the contract that way.

 

[Boilerpeddle]

I thought that the ue position was suppost to be for new business and would not be at the expence of any roar jobs?? So who is Bullshitting who??

No one ever said in writing at least (not even the union propaganda) that the UE was for new business. They said it would help us get new customers. That's it. It is supposed to help move freight faster and if these UE guys can't get on board with that then there is a problem and they need to be talked to.
I don't want to go through all this junk with arguing and such only to have some entitled UE drivers bring the whole thing down. If you don't want to do the work then do something else.

 

[jarhead13]

No one ever said in writing at least (not even the union propaganda) that the UE was for new business. They said it would help us get new customers. That's it. It is supposed to help move freight faster and if these UE guys can't get on board with that then there is a problem and they need to be talked to.
I don't want to go through all this junk with arguing and such only to have some entitled UE drivers bring the whole thing down. If you don't want to do the work then do something else.

The contract states:"The intent of the parties' creation of the Utility Employee Positions to generate additional job opportunities and enhance employee earnings, by enhancing the Employer's ability to compete and grow." If YRC knew how to effectively operate a next day company they would not have to steal our money and squander our freight, jobs, and reputation. Maybe the end should be now. I think people need a wake up call.
Our local (Danny) said several times that the UE would only be used for new business. The mailer from the IBT labeled "Setting the Record Straight On Utility Employees", states:(this is one line)"The UE will not be used to replace or eliminate employees in the existing LTL operation. Some of us might get stuck doing the UE job to keep some type of employment. So if some people don't like the UE job, I understand. We already moved freight faster before YRC. They changed the freight lanes then say they need the UE to survive? That is like saying I am giving you a 50% discount after I raised the price 300%. Our biggest problem is apathy, "there's nothing we can do so lets just fall in line like the sheep we are." Another reason our freight was moved so fast is because a Road Driver is paid for production (by the mile), UE's are hourly. Why should a UE speed or "make his log book work" after he sat at a terminal for 4 or 5 hours? The bottom line is that these promises were made by the IBT and most Locals. These guys must be voted out of office and the only way that might happen is if we keep the facts straight about how this bad contract transpired.