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Redracer3136 said:
Most day cab drivers bring their lunch from home...you can tell the ones who eat on the road because they rarely have a “good meal”!! This is evident by those who are new to the road from the city, most put on about 30 lbs within the first few months!!
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That's fair. But sometimes it's nice to sit down and eat, even if it's the meal you brought from home! Getting out of the cab and getting the circulation flowing, sitting at a table and having lunch and just generally enjoying a brief respite can do wonders for your mood. It's not a nap, but it can be just as worthwhile.

Most of us want to get back home as soon as possible. But that doesn't mean it should come at the cost of your well being! You don't need to use three hours, but taking a break when you WANT to is a nice option.
 
SwampRatt said:
Security Robot Cuts Crime for XPO

http://www.ttnews.com/articles/secu...0MTlEN3ZFYVhPN3BnQmoxS3BRVFZjK0xzNFJXM1o4TiJ9

c3-xpo-robot.jpg
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Does that thing also operate as a Shop Vac while cruising around the place also?
 
Redracer3136 said:
The debate has nothing to do with 14 hours being “just not enough”, actually those of us in day cabs would probably rarely use the “extension” that this bill would allow. It’s more about doing away with the “mandatory” 30 min nannny break and allowing us to option to use the proposed “extension” if needed.

I don’t know of anyone who wants to extend their already long day any longer just because they can!! This proposed bill would actually allow “some” (sleepers) to end their long days sooner.
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Again, no complaint from me in changing the mandatory 30 min break to optional.

Still not sure adding (potentially) up to 3 hours to a driver's day is the right trade off.

If I'm negotiating such a compromise, I would eliminate the required 30, while reducing the max from 14 to 13.5 hours. Driver get's his 30 back AND actually gets home/off road sooner.

*For sleepers: the split sleeper berth option would return, and count toward an extension of allowable drive time.

There are, and still would be, exceptions for extreme and unforeseeable situations. Preferably rare and little used exceptions...
 
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Canadian Flyer said:
That's fair. But sometimes it's nice to sit down and eat, even if it's the meal you brought from home! Getting out of the cab and getting the circulation flowing, sitting at a table and having lunch and just generally enjoying a brief respite can do wonders for your mood. It's not a nap, but it can be just as worthwhile.

Most of us want to get back home as soon as possible. But that doesn't mean it should come at the cost of your well being! You don't need to use three hours, but taking a break when you WANT to is a nice option.
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Agreed...but it’s not like we just turn and burn everyday either, that’s actually a rarity.

Even without the required 30 min nanny break, most drivers take the time to walk inside at our meet points (truck stops or other centers), use the restrooms, talk to the regulars who are there, etc..even if our meet drivers are there and for those who run to the hubs, unless they’re the first or second bid your hooks are never ready so there’s plenty of time to “getting the circulation flowing”.
 
SwampRatt said:
Again, no complaint from me in changing the mandatory 30 min break to optional.

Still not sure adding (potentially) up to 3 hours to a driver's day is the right trade off.

If I'm negotiating such a compromise, I would eliminate the required 30, while reducing the max from 14 to 13.5 hours. Driver get's his 30 back AND actually gets home/off road sooner.

*For sleepers: the split sleeper berth option would return, and count toward an extension of allowable drive time.

There are, and still would be, exceptions for extreme and unforeseeable situations. Preferably rare and little used exceptions...
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I would disagree with reducing the 14 to 13.5...if I were negotiating I’d trade the required 30 min break for the 34 hour reset.

I’d agree with the return of the split sleeper birth option...

I’ve contacted my Congressmen and ask them to support this bill...
 
SwampRatt said:
Again, no complaint from me in changing the mandatory 30 min break to optional.

Still not sure adding (potentially) up to 3 hours to a driver's day is the right trade off.

If I'm negotiating such a compromise, I would eliminate the required 30, while reducing the max from 14 to 13.5 hours. Driver get's his 30 back AND actually gets home/off road sooner.

*For sleepers: the split sleeper berth option would return, and count toward an extension of allowable drive time.

There are, and still would be, exceptions for extreme and unforeseeable situations. Preferably rare and little used exceptions...
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That's a large part of why we have the 16 hour shift in Canada. You can use it for rest, but it's unusual for even sleeper drivers to do so. The most common use for it is unforseen conditions such as emergency road closures and sudden weather changes.

We allow 14 hours on duty and 13 hours of driving time here. Most line drivers only use 12, which covers typical journey time (a rounder between Toronto and Montreal, half way between Toronto and Winnipeg, etc) in Canada. It works out nice because you can work the same 12 hours every day and be off 12 in between.
 
Canadian Flyer said:
That's a large part of why we have the 16 hour shift in Canada. You can use it for rest, but it's unusual for even sleeper drivers to do so. The most common use for it is unforseen conditions such as emergency road closures and sudden weather changes.

We allow 14 hours on duty and 13 hours of driving time here. Most line drivers only use 12, which covers typical journey time (a rounder between Toronto and Montreal, half way between Toronto and Winnipeg, etc) in Canada. It works out nice because you can work the same 12 hours every day and be off 12 in between.
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I understand where You and Red are coming from. I'd even agree on the true unforeseen circumstance provision. Weather, Mechanical breakdown, YES. Even the extreme traffic mayhem. All verifiable, and presumably rare.

I can't support using it to recover from problem shipper/receivers (problem company locations?), on the backs of the driver. I'd rather see these entities held accountable, to a degree that makes up for the cost of lodging/meals and delayed/missed shipments. Time stamp arrival/departures. mandatory penalty for excess delay

Compensate the driver and company, rather than just letting them extend their (already long) day.
 
SwampRatt said:
I understand where You and Red are coming from. I'd even agree on the true unforeseen circumstance provision. Weather, Mechanical breakdown, YES. Even the extreme traffic mayhem. All verifiable, and presumably rare.

I can't support using it to recover from problem shipper/receivers (problem company locations?), on the backs of the driver. I'd rather see these entities held accountable, to a degree that makes up for the cost of lodging/meals and delayed/missed shipments. Time stamp arrival/departures. mandatory penalty for excess delay

Compensate the driver and company, rather than just letting them extend their (already long) day.
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Your last sentence,Swamp. What I have said all along. Pay the driver for all his time! Grocery has always been the worst. But DC live load,and unload freight is right up there with grocery now. Still amazes me though how many trucking companies, let language like,delivered in a sort,and segregate order upon delivery to be included in their bids to haul this freight? Pretty sad when you have to haul freight that you either pay a lumper service, oh excuse me,unloading service, to do the work, or let your tired driver do it for probably less than minimum wage. Never understood why the truck lines responsibility included handling other people’s freight,and sitting for hours sometimes waiting for a dock,and not compensated for it?
 
SwampRatt said:
I understand where You and Red are coming from. I'd even agree on the true unforeseen circumstance provision. Weather, Mechanical breakdown, YES. Even the extreme traffic mayhem. All verifiable, and presumably rare.

I can't support using it to recover from problem shipper/receivers (problem company locations?), on the backs of the driver. I'd rather see these entities held accountable, to a degree that makes up for the cost of lodging/meals and delayed/missed shipments. Time stamp arrival/departures. mandatory penalty for excess delay

Compensate the driver and company, rather than just letting them extend their (already long) day.
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I agree with you wholeheartedly. In my own experience, if you expect to be paid waiting time at all you must have listed in/out times and a signature from the shipper/receiver acknowledging that they are aware of the amount of time you were there. And, in light of that, any time you are paid for is explicitly on duty time and must be recorded as such.

The DOT would have a field day with the idiot who logged off duty to preserve their hours with an express acknowledgement that they were at a customer during that time. I agree that there's room for abuse, but the E-logs can't be lied to like the paper logs, so it becomes the choice of the driver. Forfeit pay and preserve hours? Forfeit hours and get paid? Or lie and hope you don't get caught? The customer can't tell you what to do, and neither can the carrier. Strictly speaking, the DOT says you must be on duty and nobody can argue that because you are attending to a customer.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. Some drivers will steal every minute of every day that they can because they don't have a family, or even a home, to go back to. They risk serious fines to make a few extra dollars. And they would do it one way or another. Should we really worry about the handful of cheaters still left out there so much that we would forfeit something that has the potential to be of great benefit to drivers who do play by the rules?

I will tell you this much, my friend. I've only worked three 16 hour shifts in my life. One was at FedEx (I logged my time waiting in Toledo off duty, I wasn't paid for it anyway so it didn't matter) the Friday night of the weekend my dad got married to his current wife. I was expected to be at the wedding, but he needed the night off to prepare, so I deliberately ensured my 16 hour clock to allow me to complete the run by myself and thus be present at the wedding. I was utterly exhausted, but I was present and my sacrifice was noted.

The other two times were because of weather conditions in British Columbia causing accidents that closed the roads. And frankly, anyone who would routinely subject themselves to that many hours in a day probably deserves the burnout they'll inevitably complain about. Especially if they aren't being paid for all of it.

Long-winded response, perhaps, but I just wanted to spotlight what it's like and the reasons someone would really have to have in order to go to that extreme. It's not something you'd want to do for free every day, and I genuinely don't believe that anyone would want to experience a day that long more than a handful of times unless they really were napping the whole three hours.
 
Canadian Flyer said:
I agree with you wholeheartedly. In my own experience, if you expect to be paid waiting time at all you must have listed in/out times and a signature from the shipper/receiver acknowledging that they are aware of the amount of time you were there. And, in light of that, any time you are paid for is explicitly on duty time and must be recorded as such.

The DOT would have a field day with the idiot who logged off duty to preserve their hours with an express acknowledgement that they were at a customer during that time. I agree that there's room for abuse, but the E-logs can't be lied to like the paper logs, so it becomes the choice of the driver. Forfeit pay and preserve hours? Forfeit hours and get paid? Or lie and hope you don't get caught? The customer can't tell you what to do, and neither can the carrier. Strictly speaking, the DOT says you must be on duty and nobody can argue that because you are attending to a customer.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. Some drivers will steal every minute of every day that they can because they don't have a family, or even a home, to go back to. They risk serious fines to make a few extra dollars. And they would do it one way or another. Should we really worry about the handful of cheaters still left out there so much that we would forfeit something that has the potential to be of great benefit to drivers who do play by the rules?

I will tell you this much, my friend. I've only worked three 16 hour shifts in my life. One was at FedEx (I logged my time waiting in Toledo off duty, I wasn't paid for it anyway so it didn't matter) the Friday night of the weekend my dad got married to his current wife. I was expected to be at the wedding, but he needed the night off to prepare, so I deliberately ensured my 16 hour clock to allow me to complete the run by myself and thus be present at the wedding. I was utterly exhausted, but I was present and my sacrifice was noted.

The other two times were because of weather conditions in British Columbia causing accidents that closed the roads. And frankly, anyone who would routinely subject themselves to that many hours in a day probably deserves the burnout they'll inevitably complain about. Especially if they aren't being paid for all of it.

Long-winded response, perhaps, but I just wanted to spotlight what it's like and the reasons someone would really have to have in order to go to that extreme. It's not something you'd want to do for free every day, and I genuinely don't believe that anyone would want to experience a day that long more than a handful of times unless they really were napping the whole three hours.
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So 3 cups of coffee this morning?
 
CF, if all drivers were like you, it might not be a problem, at all.

Drivers and fleets respond: The common refrain in HOS complaints

http://www.fleetowner.com/regulatio...m=email&elq2=0a778d23b9634748b1a8276923ba76ca

Good read. Some good insight. BUt some boneheaded suff too.

"The number-one thing that I find I run out of in my daily on-duty time is the [available] hours of service due to traffic, inclement weather — I always go over the 14-hour rule," one driver said."

ALWAYS?

"10 hours is too much time off. No one in the real world sleeps like that."

Boneheaded, like I said. There is more to rest, than just sleep. Eat, shower (please), etc.
 
Holding shippers accountable in the ELD era

http://www.fleetowner.com/regulatio...m=email&elq2=0a778d23b9634748b1a8276923ba76ca

"And then there’s the detention problem, which has been a major headache and concern for drivers under strict enforcement of the ELD mandate. Many carriers are now beginning to charge shippers directly for detention time and delays of more than an hour or two."

Now were talking. Add some legal teeth to this, and we might have a solution.
 
SwampRatt said:
Holding shippers accountable in the ELD era

http://www.fleetowner.com/regulatio...m=email&elq2=0a778d23b9634748b1a8276923ba76ca

"And then there’s the detention problem, which has been a major headache and concern for drivers under strict enforcement of the ELD mandate. Many carriers are now beginning to charge shippers directly for detention time and delays of more than an hour or two."

Now were talking. Add some legal teeth to this, and we might have a solution.
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Some guys wouldn't run out of time all the time if they could learn to keep the left door closed. I've known guys to complain that they can't get from Toronto to Montreal and back in 14 hours. These same guys stop for coffee once an hour the whole way out and back. Doing the same trip I might stop twice and I have never had a problem.

The drivers are starting to hold carriers accountable for time wasted. They quit if they feel they're sitting around for free. And we know how desperate a lot of the carriers are to keep people. It's not quite a legal requirement yet, but I'm seeing it more and more. Places that waste time aren't getting serviced anymore, even if they pay, because a driver is more valuable moving.

We ARE getting to a point that a regular law-abiding driver and a gypsy make almost the same amount of money because of all of these factors, and the ELD's have played a big role in that.
 
FMCSA grants rest exemption for fuel haulers

http://www.fleetowner.com/hos/fmcsa...m=email&elq2=8e5da99235f84b07afe56f07f5eb8a79

"Under certain conditions, fuel trucks can operate for twelve hours a day without triggering the rest break requirement..."

"FMCSA agreed that the time these drivers spend unloading provides rest that is equivalent to, and often great than, rest from the traditional 30-minute rest break. Accordingly, the exemption allows these drivers a 14-hour window to make their fuel runs."
 
FMCSA grants rest exemption for fuel haulers

http://www.fleetowner.com/hos/fmcsa...m=email&elq2=8e5da99235f84b07afe56f07f5eb8a79

"Under certain conditions, fuel trucks can operate for twelve hours a day without triggering the rest break requirement..."

"FMCSA agreed that the time these drivers spend unloading provides rest that is equivalent to, and often great than, rest from the traditional 30-minute rest break. Accordingly, the exemption allows these drivers a 14-hour window to make their fuel runs."
 
SwampRatt said:
CF, if all drivers were like you, it might not be a problem, at all.

Drivers and fleets respond: The common refrain in HOS complaints

http://www.fleetowner.com/regulatio...m=email&elq2=0a778d23b9634748b1a8276923ba76ca

Good read. Some good insight. BUt some boneheaded suff too.

"The number-one thing that I find I run out of in my daily on-duty time is the [available] hours of service due to traffic, inclement weather — I always go over the 14-hour rule," one driver said."

ALWAYS?

"10 hours is too much time off. No one in the real world sleeps like that."

Boneheaded, like I said. There is more to rest, than just sleep. Eat, shower (please), etc.
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Never heard anyone complain about logs, until ELD’s showed up. Now everything is wrong.. I think mostly because they are unable to have total control of that book now, and you cannot cheat on the ELD. Like showing a half hour to unload, when you really were there 3 hours....
 
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