You know I think this scares me more than Social Security does. Will either one be here for us. I'll probably work till I drop anyway.
TForce | Pension
- Thread starter Skeeter
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You know I think this scares me more than Social Security does. Will either one be here for us. I'll probably work till I drop anyway.
Amen Skeeter it kind of looks like I'm going to do the same as you.
With the cost of living on the rise,fuel goes up a nickel per gallon every week.
Fuel sur charges are being added to everything we need to buy.
And of course we can't forget about taxes.
I think unless your a lottery winner it may be very hard to make the ajustment to live on a fixed income?
So as long as I'm being blessed with good health,and can do the work.
I'm in this for the long haul,my brother!
With the cost of living on the rise,fuel goes up a nickel per gallon every week.
Fuel sur charges are being added to everything we need to buy.
And of course we can't forget about taxes.
I think unless your a lottery winner it may be very hard to make the ajustment to live on a fixed income?
So as long as I'm being blessed with good health,and can do the work.
I'm in this for the long haul,my brother!
accelerator
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Yes UPS does pay for thier pention through the teamsters, but at a rate that is twice the amount we get into the pention per hr. from "O" now UPSF.
So in retrospect We get $2.50 per hr.in the pention and a 401K with a matching 50-7, or we get $5.00 per hr. in our Teamsters pention with a 401K with no match.
what is the differance.....?
You're right Mike. The local union collects the money and has to pay a per capita payment to the International for each member. I'm pretty sure it's about or under $5 per month
accelerator
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accelerator
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Small price to pay in comparison too what we are getting soaked now....
Here in HRS.
Correct me if I am wrong Please. My understanding is your pension will be frozen when the teamsters take over,this is to ensure "YOU" the employee that KNOWONE can touch the pension that you have earned. You will start out fresh building a new pension. You will earn 170.00 per year. lets say if you have 25 years in the company now and you are now "Teamsters" and work another 5 years---you will get your OVNT/UPS pension plus a teamsters penion of 850.00. DO YOU ALL THINK UPS IS NOT USEING OUR PENSION MONEY?
Some people have been misled by thinking that. Do you not understand that they can tell us tomarrow they will NO long contribute to our pension and there is not a blasted thing we can do about it. Look at what happened at Conway.
Correct me if I am wrong Please. My understanding is your pension will be frozen when the teamsters take over,this is to ensure "YOU" the employee that KNOWONE can touch the pension that you have earned. You will start out fresh building a new pension. You will earn 170.00 per year. lets say if you have 25 years in the company now and you are now "Teamsters" and work another 5 years---you will get your OVNT/UPS pension plus a teamsters penion of 850.00. DO YOU ALL THINK UPS IS NOT USEING OUR PENSION MONEY?
Some people have been misled by thinking that. Do you not understand that they can tell us tomarrow they will NO long contribute to our pension and there is not a blasted thing we can do about it. Look at what happened at Conway.
accelerator
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You are 100% correct, about everything, Well I would not die by your #'s ( sorry). After all look at the pention enron employees had ,were did it go?
Of coarse there is one thing put into law by bush, when this happened, and I of all people think the dummy did the rite thing in this case, And that is all pentions ,by any company, will be 100% funded ,by whatever company ,by such and such a date, And I do not recall the date now, when I need it of coarse.
I think it is 2008. But anyway, this is the reason why companies are changing too 401K's. The amount submitted to the 401K can and usually is the end result of market shift, and profits of any individual can be controlled by the company.
VS the pention which is the same percentage regaurdless of profits. Usually a fixed rate calculated per HR.
Teamsters Pension Cuts Destroy Early Retirement
Up to now, Teamsters at UPS could rely on the fact that they could retire after 30 years with a $3,000 a month pension and health care. Not any more.
The attack on pensions is two-fold — The benefit formula has been slashed and retiree medical coverage dramatically cut back.
Together these cuts destroy the good 25-and-out and 30-and-out pensions that was fought to win.
Pension Cuts
After Jan. 1, 2004 benefits are calculated differently. You longer get $2,000 or $3,000 a month if we put in enough years under our top contracts. Instead You get a lower benefit based on a formula that counts years worked before and after Jan. 1, 2004 differently.
If you retire before age 62, Central States will penalize you 6 percent for every year under age 62 that you retire.
That means if you retire at age 57, they’ll take 30 percent off the monthly pension benefits you earn after 2003!
They can’t apply this penalty to the pension benefits you have earned up to the end of 2003, but they can and will apply this penalty for every year you work after 2003.
And that’s not counting the huge hikes in health and welfare premiums.
Health and Welfare Cuts
The worst cuts are in retiree health coverage. Now Teamsters who retire under age 57 will have to pay $510 per month or $1,020 per couple. Those who retire after Dec. 31, 2004 will not be eligible for any retiree coverage until age 57.
Single coverage is going to be upped by $50 a month every year until further notice.
Couples coverage will be increased by $100 a month every year until further notice. In other words, they will keep raising our premiums until we force them to stop.
If you retire 10 years from now at age 57 you’ll be paying $1,510 a month for spousal coverage! Subtract $1,510 from your $2,630 pension. That leaves you with $1,120 a month!
When a union employer files for bankruptcy and drops out of a multi-employer teamster pension plan, its unfunded retirement liabilities are jointly assumed by the companies still participating in the teamster plan. In contrast, when a single-employer pension plan goes bankrupt, the PBGC takes charge of its liabilities, paying a portion of the obligations owed.
"The law has created traps and penalties that will forever drive current and prospective employers away," Given Central States' gaping shortfall and the negative cash flow that reflects its poor demographics, analysts say it will be very hard for the plan to get out of its hole, threatening participants with reduced benefits and their employers with increases to already substantial contributions. UPS contributes billions to its multiemployer teamster pension plans.
Since no companies are likely to join such a vulnerable plan, there will be no infusion of new employer contributions. As more employees retire, the demographics at Central States, and the plan's cash flow, will deteriorate even more.
A similar vicious cycle could play out at other troubled multiemployer teamster pension plans. Workers face the threat of further cuts in their retirement benefits.
Companies must contend with the possibility of increased contributions -- which could spike if major employers in the plan file for bankruptcy and dump their liabilities on the remaining employers.
Up to now, Teamsters at UPS could rely on the fact that they could retire after 30 years with a $3,000 a month pension and health care. Not any more.
The attack on pensions is two-fold — The benefit formula has been slashed and retiree medical coverage dramatically cut back.
Together these cuts destroy the good 25-and-out and 30-and-out pensions that was fought to win.
Pension Cuts
After Jan. 1, 2004 benefits are calculated differently. You longer get $2,000 or $3,000 a month if we put in enough years under our top contracts. Instead You get a lower benefit based on a formula that counts years worked before and after Jan. 1, 2004 differently.
If you retire before age 62, Central States will penalize you 6 percent for every year under age 62 that you retire.
That means if you retire at age 57, they’ll take 30 percent off the monthly pension benefits you earn after 2003!
They can’t apply this penalty to the pension benefits you have earned up to the end of 2003, but they can and will apply this penalty for every year you work after 2003.
And that’s not counting the huge hikes in health and welfare premiums.
Health and Welfare Cuts
The worst cuts are in retiree health coverage. Now Teamsters who retire under age 57 will have to pay $510 per month or $1,020 per couple. Those who retire after Dec. 31, 2004 will not be eligible for any retiree coverage until age 57.
Single coverage is going to be upped by $50 a month every year until further notice.
Couples coverage will be increased by $100 a month every year until further notice. In other words, they will keep raising our premiums until we force them to stop.
If you retire 10 years from now at age 57 you’ll be paying $1,510 a month for spousal coverage! Subtract $1,510 from your $2,630 pension. That leaves you with $1,120 a month!
When a union employer files for bankruptcy and drops out of a multi-employer teamster pension plan, its unfunded retirement liabilities are jointly assumed by the companies still participating in the teamster plan. In contrast, when a single-employer pension plan goes bankrupt, the PBGC takes charge of its liabilities, paying a portion of the obligations owed.
"The law has created traps and penalties that will forever drive current and prospective employers away," Given Central States' gaping shortfall and the negative cash flow that reflects its poor demographics, analysts say it will be very hard for the plan to get out of its hole, threatening participants with reduced benefits and their employers with increases to already substantial contributions. UPS contributes billions to its multiemployer teamster pension plans.
Since no companies are likely to join such a vulnerable plan, there will be no infusion of new employer contributions. As more employees retire, the demographics at Central States, and the plan's cash flow, will deteriorate even more.
A similar vicious cycle could play out at other troubled multiemployer teamster pension plans. Workers face the threat of further cuts in their retirement benefits.
Companies must contend with the possibility of increased contributions -- which could spike if major employers in the plan file for bankruptcy and dump their liabilities on the remaining employers.
only one problem-a single employer company can pull from retirement at any time, that does mean you dont have a leg to stand on. No matter how you look at it. we the employee always get screwed. but haveing a multi employer fund you have a better. chance. With all due respect, most employees that have had their Employer go under, have retained jobs at another union company, some have retired. All in all the companies pay into the plan for EACH EMPLOYEE,they dont pay a lump sum because they are a union company. Here is some info a person may use: If you recieve workmans comp. disability. FMLA without pay, just lazy and dont wont to work hard, etc. over the years this does have effects on your pension. employees have to be held accountable for the amounts that are in their pension to.
wazalumper2
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The big difference is that the Company lets you take the risk of how to invest your own money.
Unfortunately, not everyone has a 401K because either they don't understand them or they are not sure how to go about investing their money. Whereas a pension plan would make those decisions for them.
Here at MC/Reno we don't get much of a pension and a 25-6 match on our Fidelity 401K.
But it will change with a new contract.
That's right and remember the teamster's pension plan is in the same vote. Don't tell me you have more protection than we do it's just not true. As far as UPS not adding anything to our pension and there is nothing we can do about it.
Look into your own history and check out how many teamsters companies went out of business not having paid into the pension plan and being behind millions.
So again if you want to use scare tactics there is plenty on both sides.
Teamster251
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That's right and remember the teamster's pension plan is in the same vote. Don't tell me you have more protection than we do it's just not true. As far as UPS not adding anything to our pension and there is nothing we can do about it.
Look into your own history and check out how many teamsters companies went out of business not having paid into the pension plan and being behind millions.
So again if you want to use scare tactics there is plenty on both sides.
Hidstory also proves that those that didn't receive pension credits from their companies before backruptcy also didn't recive creidt from the pension funds for those years.
Just becuase I have time with a union carrier doesn't intitle me to pension credits unlkess they ewere paid for.
TransCon still owes me 4months. Tha 4 more months I have to work to get my 30 even though I've already worked them.
The funds are very protective and authoritative about policing the funds and you only get waht you deserve.
People get screwed over everyday and I'll be the first to stay the Teamsters or pension funds don't screw you over the companies do.
I caught UPS owning NE Pension fund over 160 hours credit for me back in 2004. I held UPS accountable for it and they were made to pay. Even though I was only a causal.
You can't trust no one elsae but yourself when it comes to your employer.
Skeeter if you have nothing you can do about waht UPS does to your pension, why, in your mind, do you think you have no recourse or have nothing to do with your Teamster credits as they are paid for you?
T251
Also a lot of teamsters are drawing a lot less than they thought they would. You guys are no better off history proves that and continues to do so.
As far as your last paragraph I not sure what you are trying to say.
You think have total control over your pension through the teamsters I think you are going to be the one surprised in the end.
That's right and remember the teamster's pension plan is in the same vote. Don't tell me you have more protection than we do it's just not true. As far as UPS not adding anything to our pension and there is nothing we can do about it.
Look into your own history and check out how many teamsters companies went out of business not having paid into the pension plan and being behind millions.
So again if you want to use scare tactics there is plenty on both sides.
you misunderstood what i was trying to say.
Any Single employer "any company" that pays into a pension can stop adding to it at any time.
Since I work for UPS freight i have the same pension as you have. I have read the book on our pension and i think it sucks. It use to be the best 5 years out of 10, its not now.
It also states, correct me if I am wrong that
when a person is on workmans comp, or other factors as i have posted, This does have a affect on their pension. No matter what, a persons pension is calculated on hours worked.
I have asked this question to the local here and this was the response:
To answer your question the pension you have with UPSF will
stay as is, under UPSF control and a New Pension COULD BE "negotiated."
If the company and union agree, REMEMBER IT ALL HAS TO BE NEGOTIATED and there is a possibility that there will be no changes in
your current pension. One thing that could never happen is THE TEAMSTERS CAN NEVER TAKE OVER YOUR CURRENT PENSION.
To answer your question the pension you have with UPSF will
stay as is, under UPSF control and a New Pension COULD BE "negotiated."
If the company and union agree, REMEMBER IT ALL HAS TO BE NEGOTIATED and there is a possibility that there will be no changes in
your current pension. One thing that could never happen is THE TEAMSTERS CAN NEVER TAKE OVER YOUR CURRENT PENSION.
Greezy Trucker
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I think you need to make flyers of that last part....No one seems to understand this.....
And am I wrong... Lets say Bob worked for CF. And CF put x amount of dollars towards Bob's pension. Now is that money not still in the pension in Bob's name? And if this is true, Why does it matter if CF is still in business or not? Once a company put that money in there it is there, right? So why all the pissing and moaning about paying for companies that are no longer in business? Anyway I guess I should wait for an answer before I carry on.....
GLAD TO BE_UPSF
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The problem is that the monies paid toward Bob's pension aren't just sitting there waiting for Bob to retire.
It has been paid to retiree's already.
In order for this system to work, someone has to be working and paying in to the system.
It is the same for social security....the money you pay into social security is being paid to current retiree's...not sitting there until your ready to retire. So in order for it to work, someone has to be paying into it.
The proper way to do it would be to negotiate to have all the money contributed for Bob to go into an account for Bob, but that won't work because there is no special account for everyone that is already retired.
The only way you could have the money paid on your behalf go into an account until you retire would be if the pension was fully funded before anyone collected any monies.
Since we are starting from scratch, we should have our own pension fund negotiated for UPS Freight....but that won't happen because the people doing the negotiating are the same people that need to have money coming in for their existing pension fund.
I personally would rather not have a pension...give me the money that goes in on my behalf...and I'll invest it myself.
accelerator
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What I am comparing here is not the differances inbetween the two plans, I am well aware of what the differances is,but thier consistancy, and the fluidity of profits in respect to the market.
When UPS pays into the pention, there is a set amount per hour that is vested too an account in your name, Or so we are lead to believe, this is nothing more then #'s on paper, the actual monies, in lames terms, is thrown into a pot and vested in certain things too maintain interest in order too allow Retiring teamsters to get paid. Amanaged set account.
Vs a 401K, In refferance to our's for example, when we were "O" we were lucky if we had seen for the time I have been with the company, too see a 7% into the 401K, It is usually around a 3-4% range if the #'s are done correctly, the end result depends on profits, company performance, etc etc. Then this money is thrown into an account for you and is the direct result of managed gambeling in comparison, today you win tommorrow you loose, pending on where you have your stock, over a period of time such stocks are expected too perform like this over a period of so long, and this is how the monies is obtained.
One is gauranteed, one is not. I am not saying one is better than the other, but when comparing the two, the |HR. contribution gaining interest is usually a better bet in the long term. Not in all cases though it depends on the terms.