TForce | UPS Freight contract negotiations?

[hugnlug]

Skeeterism!!! Good one T-

 

[UPSFreightMan]

I find this hard to believe. Up here, all the locals encouraged the barns to sign cards, which most of us did. This was done during the card check process. Regardless of what the company thinks or says, any group of individuals that seek representation by any union is entitled to representation. This is the law, NLRB in Wash. D.C. Also having representation does not mean your union. It means that you now have the right to bargain for a fair wage and benefits, work rules via contract negotiations with a union rep. on your behalves. Most small companies would either close the doors or in the old "O" case not bargain in good faith. Thus freezing wages etc. I thank my lucky stars that now we are dealing with a company that has been dealing with the union for a 100 years and just wants this thing to go through so we don't drag the UPS name through the mud with labor issues. It effects the bottom line you know.

Again I heard that the election will be Jan 26th. This involves local 804. supposedly the local is butting heads with Hoffa and decided to go against waiting for indy to be negotiated. The international is not happy with this. According to the driver, he stated that there is no support for the union there right now.

 

[imported_mr.breeze]

Breeze I pretty sure you have most of this info twisted.

First off, if union pension is acquired, UPSF pension currently controlled by UPS Corp on your behalf will freeze accrual rates (stop contributing) they will use a formula to increase pnesion benifits for future years based on when you decide to start collecting and based on monies in fund and how it is invested and money it makes (like a 401k only you have no control). It a myth that you will only recieve a certian amount wether you start collecting now of 20 years from now. (see Conway Pension situation).

Secondly, 25's and outs were a bad plan from the start. They had no future projection based on young ages and longevity. They were a mistake period, a nice touch, but a carrot on the end of a stick.

Third, you can retire and collect a Teamster pension at any age as long as you are vested in the fund. You do not have to be 62.
However maxiums are calculated with the age of 62 in the formula. 62 is a bench mark used to calculate maxiums, or project maxiums if pensions are forozen, a particapant drops out, stops contributing or otherwise does want to start collecting until then.
To recieve max bennies with 30 years you must be 57 (in most plans) however pension payment only increases with more years put in. The "any age" clause had to be elimated to protect the plans into the future. People are living longer collecting more longer and it takes away from the plans over a longer period. It had to be stopped to protect our future, granted it sucks I'd love to have retired at 55 but know I have to go 2 more years to get the max but at the same time the is not much of a difference between 55 with 30 and 57 with 32.
And if you retire early YOU ARE NOT TAKING A CUT you are only getting what you deserve according to the plan based on years and age.
You are not penalized and cut pesnion bennies because of your early age you are only given what you deserve according to the plans formulas set up to protect the plans future and give other particapants a future in the plan also.

Fourth, You say you think the Teamnster are only giving 3 to 1 for pension credits. Well if they were giving 3 to 1 then it would be 30 for 10 years not 3.33 for 10, that 1 for 3, big differnce.
Early rumors had the Teamsters giving 3 years credit for every year served after joining the pension with at least 5 years served to be vested.
In other words your 10 year Overnite pension credit has no bearing on the matter, it's time served and contributed to, in the Teamster funds themselve that use the 3 to 1 formula you speak of.

Now you speak of paying more for health benifits in the coming contract. How do you know this, this sounds like your stirring the pot.
There has been no mention of UPS raising health care cost to employees based on a Teamster contract. If anything you would be paying nothing out of pocket if insured by the Teamster rather than more than you paying now.

Ya know, the start of your post is in a positvie manner toward to the organizing of UPSF then put a negative spin on everything with little or no validiity.

No info has been release reguarding the INDY contract, let all wait and see (Skeeterism) what they've come up with before people start jumping off bridges and throwing gas on the fire to start somehting that doesn't exist in the first place.

T251

T251, you are taking my post the wrong way. I am basically going off of what I have been told by various folks. As far as health care costs go, the teamsters' and UPS have said in various publications that this is where the sticking points on the negotiations. Like I said before, I am willing to wait and see what the contract looks like before I will pass judgement. I am a realist though. I know that the central states,like most other pension funds,has fallen on hard times due to mis-management and market conditions. I also remember why UPS went out on strike in 1997. It was because UPS wanted more control over the pension funds. It's a big freakin merry-go-round ya know. I am nobody's cheerleader except for my own.....I have to look out for my best interests. I know that sounds selfish and self centered,and,quite possibly greedy. It's a dog eat dog world out there...and I am gonna do what is best for me and my family first and foremost. If that makes me a negative jerk...so be it. BTW I never said I was a contract expert. Also,does this mean I will have to "buy" my time of service from the teamsters if I want my seniority and and contribution time to be the same....so I can actually retire a 57 and not take a cut? explain this....as I want to retire so I can actually enjoy my golden years.

 

[accelerator]

Tell who accelerator?
I don't copy your last post my friend?

The Road driver's. They have thier problems with the company, as well , of coarse, but they do not see the verosity of stupidity that we are accustomed too.

And now push is finally a shove. If the men who are in contact with the barn all day have problems ,the vote for the union should tell the road drivers something, and not diversity.

Just ask the road drivers you run into if they appreciate thier delay pay. And you will see what I mean....

 

[BusterNite]

The Road driver's. They have thier problems with the company, as well , of coarse, but they do not see the verosity of stupidity that we are accustomed too.

And now push is finally a shove. If the men who are in contact with the barn all day have problems ,the vote for the union should tell the road drivers something, and not diversity.

Just ask the road drivers you run into if they appreciate thier delay pay. And you will see what I mean....

I can tell you, The way that delay pay is set up is a slap in the face! When you break it down it comes to this, Illeagal Imigrant factory workers make more than what we make in delay pay. And this is why there is no concern as to how long you sit at a terminal waiting for freight. And after sitting 2,3,4, hours, The ride home is real safe!!!

 

[imported_krash]

I can tell you, The way that delay pay is set up is a slap in the face! When you break it down it comes to this, Illeagal Imigrant factory workers make more than what we make in delay pay. And this is why there is no concern as to how long you sit at a terminal waiting for freight. And after sitting 2,3,4, hours, The ride home is real safe!!!

I like delay, that means it's nappy time

 

[Greezy Trucker]

All the road drivers I talk to don't want any part of being organized.
Just the dock workers,and city drivers.
Road drivers are in the minority of the company,so even if they don't want it.
If everyone else does,than thats that.

You talking to the wrong road drivers!!!!! Minority? We keep you in a job there APO.....LOL when they let us work!!!!

 

[Greezy Trucker]

I can tell you, The way that delay pay is set up is a slap in the face! When you break it down it comes to this, Illeagal Imigrant factory workers make more than what we make in delay pay. And this is why there is no concern as to how long you sit at a terminal waiting for freight. And after sitting 2,3,4, hours, The ride home is real safe!!!

Or work the dock for 2 or 3 hours so the time away from your family isn't just a donation to the billion dollar entity!!!!!!How much golfing do you think is done on company time that these aholes that make these well thought out plans waste? But we are the down fall.....The union wont break us but these engineers and controlers are doning a GREAT job.....

 

[Teamster251]

T251, you are taking my post the wrong way. I am basically going off of what I have been told by various folks. As far as health care costs go, the teamsters' and UPS have said in various publications that this is where the sticking points on the negotiations. Like I said before, I am willing to wait and see what the contract looks like before I will pass judgement. I am a realist though. I know that the central states,like most other pension funds,has fallen on hard times due to mis-management and market conditions. I also remember why UPS went out on strike in 1997. It was because UPS wanted more control over the pension funds. It's a big freakin merry-go-round ya know. I am nobody's cheerleader except for my own.....I have to look out for my best interests. I know that sounds selfish and self centered,and,quite possibly greedy. It's a dog eat dog world out there...and I am gonna do what is best for me and my family first and foremost. If that makes me a negative jerk...so be it. BTW I never said I was a contract expert. Also,does this mean I will have to "buy" my time of service from the teamsters if I want my seniority and and contribution time to be the same....so I can actually retire a 57 and not take a cut? explain this....as I want to retire so I can actually enjoy my golden years.

You can retire at any age you want as long as your vested but will only recieve want you are intitled based on the formula.
This so called cut is something in your mind. You are not intitled to the max unless you put in the max, that's max years and max age based on the formulas.

It's like big business saying they lost money becuase there profit was 10% less than it was last year.
HELLO!!!! Profit is not losing money
Everyone automatically asssumes the worst, "The company is loosing money"

If you want the max I suggest you stick around and earn it.
If you want out early why should you get what others stayed around and earned.
I want to retire right now but the forluma for my age and years served won't pay off, even if I live to be 110.
If you don't like they way a plan is being administored I suggest you get involved and change it.

FYI, the contract will not tell you anything about your retireemnt as it pretains to the established funds. There is no language in the contract that tells you what you will get and what age you need to be to retire etc.

The pension funds administer that and publish it. The board of trustees, 50% employers and 50% Teamster leaders decide that.

Waiting for the contract to come out to decide weather the pension is going to be effected or effect you is futile.

As far as the CS Fund falling on hard times, that not a secert, but every effort is being made to fix it. I can just hear all the whiing crybabies now if they weren't try to fix it and just let it fail.
Take a look around this problem isn't isolated to the Teamster funds, it effect all muti-employer, single employer, public, private, and gov't funds. Most are mismanged and promise what they can't keep.

I think the mistake everyone is making here is basing their dession on wether of not they need Teamster repersentation based on the pension fund stigmas.

Why is presentaion needed?
Do you want to be presented or protect by a union?
Do you want a voice in the work place?
Do you want a voice in the Teamsters?

I'm pretty sure the organization drive that was sucessfull in Indy and at so many other terminals wasn't sucessfull becuase they wanted in on the pension.

The pension and APWA are the only weapons the Anti-Teamster have against the organization drive.
Notice how all the anti-union meeting at terminal level have stopped. Where are all those "Proud to be Non-Union" banners go?
More over where are all the nonunion supporters that used to flourish on this forum.

I not turning this into a Union Non union thread, just trying to make a point.

T251

 

[UPSFreightMan]

You can retire at any age you want as long as your vested but will only recieve want you are intitled based on the formula.
This so called cut is something in your mind. You are not intitled to the max unless you put in the max, that's max years and max age based on the formulas.

It's like big business saying they lost money becuase there profit was 10% less than it was last year.
HELLO!!!! Profit is not losing money
Everyone automatically asssumes the worst, "The company is loosing money"

If you want the max I suggest you stick around and earn it.
If you want out early why should you get what others stayed around and earned.
I want to retire right now but the forluma for my age and years served won't pay off, even if I live to be 110.
If you don't like they way a plan is being administored I suggest you get involved and change it.

FYI, the contract will not tell you anything about your retireemnt as it pretains to the established funds. There is no language in the contract that tells you what you will get and what age you need to be to retire etc.

The pension funds administer that and publish it. The board of trustees, 50% employers and 50% Teamster leaders decide that.

Waiting for the contract to come out to decide weather the pension is going to be effected or effect you is futile.

As far as the CS Fund falling on hard times, that not a secert, but every effort is being made to fix it. I can just hear all the whiing crybabies now if they weren't try to fix it and just let it fail.
Take a look around this problem isn't isolated to the Teamster funds, it effect all muti-employer, single employer, public, private, and gov't funds. Most are mismanged and promise what they can't keep.

I think the mistake everyone is making here is basing their dession on wether of not they need Teamster repersentation based on the pension fund stigmas.

Why is presentaion needed?
Do you want to be presented or protect by a union?
Do you want a voice in the work place?
Do you want a voice in the Teamsters?

I'm pretty sure the organization drive that was sucessfull in Indy and at so many other terminals wasn't sucessfull becuase they wanted in on the pension.

The pension and APWA are the only weapons the Anti-Teamster have against the organization drive.
Notice how all the anti-union meeting at terminal level have stopped. Where are all those "Proud to be Non-Union" banners go?
More over where are all the nonunion supporters that used to flourish on this forum.

I not turning this into a Union Non union thread, just trying to make a point.

T251

The anti-union meetings have not stopped. They were having them in Farmingdale all week this week after the teamsters filed a petition with the nlrb. Next week more VP's are coming down to give meetings also. The meetings will continue weekly until the election at the end of January. So the anti-union message is not dead.

 

[BusterNite]

Or work the dock for 2 or 3 hours so the time away from your family isn't just a donation to the billion dollar entity!!!!!!How much golfing do you think is done on company time that these aholes that make these well thought out plans waste? But we are the down fall.....The union wont break us but these engineers and controlers are doning a GREAT job.....

Sorry, NO drivers on the dock!

 

[BusterNite]

The anti-union meetings have not stopped. They were having them in Farmingdale all week this week after the teamsters filed a petition with the nlrb. Next week more VP's are coming down to give meetings also. The meetings will continue weekly until the election at the end of January. So the anti-union message is not dead.

I wonder if they are going to preach that keeping the union out will give them the best equiptment (envy) in the industry and Overtime after 8 and the best delay pay ever? and how they can use there seniority sometimes?:

 

[accelerator]

The anti-union meetings have not stopped. They were having them in Farmingdale all week this week after the teamsters filed a petition with the nlrb. Next week more VP's are coming down to give meetings also. The meetings will continue weekly until the election at the end of January. So the anti-union message is not dead.

No. but it should be , People look around you, this antiunion ,union thing is nothing more then a mud throwing match, MGNT, and the upper brass of this CO. and I am sure UPS, Does not want a third party entity running this co. Period. And will do anything too stop it in it's track's.

This is nothing more then act's of desparity at it's best,using threats and scare tactic's as vehicles to get thier end result.No union.

If mgnt. was doing thier jobs, we as worker's would be doing our's. Unfortunatly most of us do not know what our jobs are comprised of, most work rules change when the mgnt. changes, This is not our fault is it? Now people are asking for an unmodified bible of work rules and we are wrong for wanting this. A touch of clarity is a bad thing??????

Do not forget if MGNT. did thier job's and followed the work rules to begin with, most of us would not be complaining about just these thing's, and if our cries are ignored ,what is the next step. Certainly not going to the TM that quotes work rules in resemblance to a weather report.

I am sorry, I was asked by a TM ( not mine but one from dallas TX)why we want a union ? I awnsered that with this question. How many times does he modify company policies to fit his need's in his terminal for impracticle purposes?
His response was MGNT can do a better job at upholding co. policies and most of them was infact irresponsible at doing so.

I told him he awnsered his own question,

He then asked me if I felt this was infact enough to sway my decision, I said no it was'nt.
I then asked him if he has an opinionated person within his little trucking community of texas, and did not agree with what the TM had to say because it was in direct conflict of company policy and started making waves in his waters , would he then see too make it rite or dismiss out of noncompliance, and the awnser did not suprise me , He said nothing at all but made no haste in changing the subject.

I also carried on in saying , Overtime after 8, Insurance Improvement's, Sick day's ETC. ETC. 5 of our competitor's can supply thier worker's with these minor little tweaks and I guess UPSF cannot , WHY ? ARE WE STILL BANKRUPT!!!!!!! I also detected a scence of anger in his voice, he infact thought I was being beligerent. He asked the question's and I am beligerent. Something a little funny about that do'nt you think?

As far as the antiunion meetings is concearned, Keep them coming, these meeting will be ignored just as most of us has been ignored in the past from MGNT.

This is not in direct response to any personal views you may or maynot have UPSFreightman, I am simply adding to the post....

 

[UPSFreightMan]

No. but it should be , People look around you, this antiunion ,union thing is nothing more then a mud throwing match, MGNT, and the upper brass of this CO. and I am sure UPS, Does not want a third party entity running this co. Period. And will do anything too stop it in it's track's.

This is nothing more then act's of desparity at it's best,using threats and scare tactic's as vehicles to get thier end result.No union.

If mgnt. was doing thier jobs, we as worker's would be doing our's. Unfortunatly most of us do not know what our jobs are comprised of, most work rules change when the mgnt. changes, This is not our fault is it? Now people are asking for an unmodified bible of work rules and we are wrong for wanting this. A touch of clarity is a bad thing??????

Do not forget if MGNT. did thier job's and followed the work rules to begin with, most of us would not be complaining about just these thing's, and if our cries are ignored ,what is the next step. Certainly not going to the TM that quotes work rules in resemblance to a weather report.

I am sorry, I was asked by a TM ( not mine but one from dallas TX)why we want a union ? I awnsered that with this question. How many times does he modify company policies to fit his need's in his terminal for impracticle purposes?
His response was MGNT can do a better job at upholding co. policies and most of them was infact irresponsible at doing so.

I told him he awnsered his own question,

He then asked me if I felt this was infact enough to sway my decision, I said no it was'nt.
I then asked him if he has an opinionated person within his little trucking community of texas, and did not agree with what the TM had to say because it was in direct conflict of company policy and started making waves in his waters , would he then see too make it rite or dismiss out of noncompliance, and the awnser did not suprise me , He said nothing at all but made no haste in changing the subject.

I also carried on in saying , Overtime after 8, Insurance Improvement's, Sick day's ETC. ETC. 5 of our competitor's can supply thier worker's with these minor little tweaks and I guess UPSF cannot , WHY ? ARE WE STILL BANKRUPT!!!!!!! I also detected a scence of anger in his voice, he infact thought I was being beligerent. He asked the question's and I am beligerent. Something a little funny about that do'nt you think?

As far as the antiunion meetings is concearned, Keep them coming, these meeting will be ignored just as most of us has been ignored in the past from MGNT.

This is not in direct response to any personal views you may or maynot have UPSFreightman, I am simply adding to the post....

I am saving my views until i can see what Indy gets. I need to see a few main topics before I decide.

Pension.. how secure is the fund that UPS will be contributing to.

Healthcare.. Many teamster locals are requiring their members to pay for medical on top of their union dues now. How much if any will i have to contribute towards medical?

401k.. Almost certain that there will be no match. If they were to match then UPS package would be looking for that in their contract.

Seniority... How will the seniority be and what are my options of working the dock or road if I am looking for extra work...

There are other factors also but these are the main sticking points in my mind. I am sure many will be answered after the contract with indy is signed and then i will decide which way i want to go.

 

[Teamster251]

I am saving my views until i can see what Indy gets. I need to see a few main topics before I decide.

Pension.. how secure is the fund that UPS will be contributing to.

Healthcare.. Many teamster locals are requiring their members to pay for medical on top of their union dues now. How much if any will i have to contribute towards medical?

401k.. Almost certain that there will be no match. If they were to match then UPS package would be looking for that in their contract.

Seniority... How will the seniority be and what are my options of working the dock or road if I am looking for extra work...

There are other factors also but these are the main sticking points in my mind. I am sure many will be answered after the contract with indy is signed and then i will decide which way i want to go.

Again Pension questions, concerns, etc will not be addressed in your contract. The contract however may outline contributions for hours worked etc, but will not have particulars of the pension. I have said this a hundred times. You need to research the pension fund that is in your area. That means contacting the local that will cover you, find out the name of the fund, call the fund and ask questions, the questions you have, not generalizations. You have certain question that need anwering, so you need to contact them and ask them.

Heathcare? You say many Teamster locals are requiring members to contribute to pay medical on top of their dues.
Again for the hundreth time dues have nothing to do with benifits. Dues are to run and administer the local and its overhead. Dues money does not go into any pension or Heatlh and Welfare funds PERIOD
Now I want to know the many local out there that are doing this. What areas, local numbers, I highly doubt that, besides co-pays and elective procedures that medical coverage is not being covered. You say many, how many?

401k(s) both Freight and UPS were bonus plans offered to freight memebers and UPS members by the International. The companies have absolutly nothing to do with them except take the monies from your wages and submit them to the proper administartors.
They are a supplemental way of saving on your own, for your own benifit. A way to save and not pilfer it before its time.
Why is it so important to have contribution or a match? Most matches are a losey percentage of a percentage that is capped at a maxium. Think about it you give $75 of your money and they only match 7% of 50% is only $2.62 BIG DEAL
I control both my Freight and UPS 401k(s) and they are doing quite well. Don't need UPS or my former employer to help in any way.

Seniority, while your on the phone to your local union hall ask them what kind of seniority system is used in thier area.
Are split list used or combo lists?
What are the local by-laws requarding seniority and extra work?
Can you move between jobs on the same list?
Are you penalized if you change job class?
These are all local issues and will not be addressed in depth in a contract that is based in Indy. Areas supplements deal with that and areas of operations covered by local munion usally dictate the rules in those cases.

What other factors are of concern?

Does having a voice in the work palce concern you?
Does having fair and equal treatment outlined in a Collective Barginning Agreement concern you?
Does having the protection aginst unjust firing or disipline concern you?
Does job protection concern you?
Does having the company farm out your job to someone else concern you?

T251

 

[imported_mr.breeze]

I am saving my views until i can see what Indy gets. I need to see a few main topics before I decide.

Pension.. how secure is the fund that UPS will be contributing to.

Healthcare.. Many teamster locals are requiring their members to pay for medical on top of their union dues now. How much if any will i have to contribute towards medical?

401k.. Almost certain that there will be no match. If they were to match then UPS package would be looking for that in their contract.

Seniority... How will the seniority be and what are my options of working the dock or road if I am looking for extra work...

There are other factors also but these are the main sticking points in my mind. I am sure many will be answered after the contract with indy is signed and then i will decide which way i want to go.

good answer. Always get the facts...in writing

 

[skeeterhawk]

401k(s) both Freight and UPS were bonus plans offered to freight memebers and UPS members by the International. The companies have absolutly nothing to do with them except take the monies from your wages and submit them to the proper administartors.
They are a supplemental way of saving on your own, for your own benifit. A way to save and not pilfer it before its time.
Why is it so important to have contribution or a match? Most matches are a losey percentage of a percentage that is capped at a maxium. Think about it you give $75 of your money and they only match 7% of 50% is only $2.62 BIG DEAL
I control both my Freight and UPS 401k(s) and they are doing quite well. Don't need UPS or my former employer to help in any way.

70,000 x .07 =$4,900 a 50% match on the first 7% is equal to $2,450

 

[BusterNite]

70,000 x .07 =$4,900 a 50% match on the first 7% is equal to $2,450

I will take all the help I can get$$$$$$$$$$!

 

[Apostolic]

Just my two cents,but usualy start up contracts are just the language.
The terms,or outline of how the contract is going to be set up.
All the economics,and benefits are added after this first step is agreed to by all partys involved.

I know Teamster 251 will correct me if I'm wrong.

But what I can remember of my union days,long,long ago I think I may be right about this issue.

 

[RevItUp]

401k(s) both Freight and UPS were bonus plans offered to freight memebers and UPS members by the International. The companies have absolutly nothing to do with them except take the monies from your wages and submit them to the proper administartors.
They are a supplemental way of saving on your own, for your own benifit. A way to save and not pilfer it before its time.
Why is it so important to have contribution or a match? Most matches are a losey percentage of a percentage that is capped at a maxium. Think about it you give $75 of your money and they only match 7% of 50% is only $2.62 BIG DEAL
I control both my Freight and UPS 401k(s) and they are doing quite well. Don't need UPS or my former employer to help in any way.


T251

They match 50% of your contribution. But the eligible part of your contribution is capped at the first 7% of your pay. 50,000yr x 7% = 3500 x 50% = 1750 match. The match is given in the form of UPS stock. Your $75 would get 37.50.