TForce | What a difference a buyout makes.

Hoosizzit? Any response???

I do. At least give me more than 1 minute to reply. I do not live on this board. I at least waited 12 hours before i asked for a reply. I just wanted to make sure ol' flap was not just stirring the mix.
One thing for sure is, I am happy for all of you. I still have many friends employed with UPSF. I was asking a simple question to a person that did have an impact on the outcome of the strike. You may not want to accept it as a fact. But, every person crossing that line for 3 years had an impact. As far as walking out to improve things, that seemed as if it were the only option to end the abuse of the big "O". Maybe you were there, maybe you weren't, but there was plenty to stand up for. It just seems so strange that everyone that was so against it, is now on board to get what they can. That is cool with me. I have no regrets or ill feelings to you all. I wish you the best. I am happy where I am at now. Just wanted to hear from the other side (at the time ). I have said all I need to say about this subject and do not want to get in a message board scuffle with any "Keyboard Conans". Good luck to all that work for UPS Freight. Many of you truly deserve it..

Remember....ALL GAVE SOME....SOME GAVE ALL
 
"to get what they can" .....

I do. At least give me more than 1 minute to reply. I do not live on this board. I at least waited 12 hours before i asked for a reply. I just wanted to make sure ol' flap was not just stirring the mix.
One thing for sure is, I am happy for all of you. I still have many friends employed with UPSF. I was asking a simple question to a person that did have an impact on the outcome of the strike. You may not want to accept it as a fact. But, every person crossing that line for 3 years had an impact. As far as walking out to improve things, that seemed as if it were the only option to end the abuse of the big "O". Maybe you were there, maybe you weren't, but there was plenty to stand up for. It just seems so strange that everyone that was so against it, is now on board to get what they can. That is cool with me. I have no regrets or ill feelings to you all. I wish you the best. I am happy where I am at now. Just wanted to hear from the other side (at the time ). I have said all I need to say about this subject and do not want to get in a message board scuffle with any "Keyboard Conans". Good luck to all that work for UPS Freight. Many of you truly deserve it..

Remember....ALL GAVE SOME....SOME GAVE ALL

... what a crock! The ones "on board" now have come to the realization that once the "strike" was over and "O" management went back to exactly what they were doing before the teamsters, they were no better off, and in some instances, in worse shape.

If you were in SOH during the first go around, then you know my name. I was the one that was furiously posting against the union, exposing them for what I thought they were. Foolish me. Even before the strike ended, I found out for myself exactly what a fool I was, apologized to the ones out there on the lines, went on the teamster board and apologized to all the teamsters, and took up where I left off - except I was exposing all I knew first hand about "O". They definitely did not expect that, but I did not feel like a traitor. I felt like the scum I had been, and I tried to right that.

I hope no person ever has to go thru what "O" workers did during that time ever again - it was a terrible time in our lives. All any of us can do is pick up what was left of us and go on, and as for the older ones thinking they are so close to retirement to ever make a difference - you can always make a difference to the ones following you.

Yes, "O" is gone - but not all of the original management is gone. And, they are doing their best to make sure they are still twisting the knives they have stuck in you. Those terminals (and there are verrrry few) blessed to have had a decent management team are not understanding what the rest of us had. Threats and intimidation every day, all day/night.

This is no time to be bickering amongst yourselves - look at what Chrysler is doing. Going to cut 14,000 unionized jobs by offering buyouts before they apply the hatchet. Too young to retire? Tough. To young to apply for SS and benefits? Tough. Take the buyout because of fear, try to find another job? Tough. Look at what is happening to the trucking industry as a whole and stop the bullsh!t! I once told the teamsters that when our "O" drivers were threatened (in some instances, shot) all it did was make us link arms across the miles and stand fast against them and their thugs - that is what it is going to take once again, linking arms, standing together for a better trucking industry, being able to just tell them "NO! Hell NO! We are not going to take this bs anymore!" Standing together, putting the past behind you, looking to the future!

Can you do it? They are betting you will fold. ("You gotta know when to hold 'em, know when to fold them") Never, ever let them see even a hint of fear, because if you do, you might as well "fold 'em".

And, for those that throw it up to me that I am retired - I may be retired, but I ain't dead, and these are my friends out here trying to make a difference, no matter what company they work for.

Darkstar
 
I was working at SOH when that was going on, I remember the Teamsters in front of my terminal every day when I went to work. Then some other dock workers and myself went to other terminals to work the dock. So we crossed Teamster lines in 4 different states. Being the all proud Overnite dock worker I left my family for weeks at a time and work the dock at a terminal that had dock workers walk off the dock to fight for a contract that Overnite was never going to even sit at a table. How blind was I, to not see, that Overnite was willing to pay for airline flights and hotels and rental cars for some dock workers just to make a point that if you walk off the dock and stand with the teamsters, we will fly in workers to replace you. I was on a flight from MEM to ATL then to work in MIN when the lights went out in the plane, (some cheap airline to save money) then I said to myself ''they don't care about ''ANYONE'' After a emergency landing at ATL we went home then to MIN. I never once stoped to ask the Teamsters what they had to say I never spoke a word to them, just drove by and went to work. It was not till the day we got bought by UPS I went home and went on-line and found the # to teamsters local 710 in chicago, I told them who I was and said I would like to meet with a teamster to listen to what they had to say. The next day I meet a Teamster from 710 and the first thing I told him was how sorry I was not to even listen to what they had to say. Then I just ask ??'s and heard him out. I have been talking to teamsters ever since,that day sometimes 2 times a day for about the last 3 years. Signing a teamster card was sooo special for me after soo long that same teamster I meet so long ago took my picture when I was signing my card. we have come a long way and I can almost see the end of it.

You make me sick! You went out to terminals to keep the IBT out now your slobbing knob to get them inn!You need SHOT!! Plain and simple!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Mud Flap you do not owe anyone anything, You did what you felt was right at the time. Let us not forget that they came out and said "We will shut Overnite down" " There is no way they last more than 3 weeks" Well when they did that it brought us together like nothing before. Pay close attention to the movie , In the beginning the room was full , They were all drinking Union Kool-Aid, And in the end there was just a handful of supporters left. One individual said "If we would have burnt the first truck no one else would have crossed" Love the comaraderie!I did my time, We all did what we felt we had to do to make sure we had a future.Peace Out:smilie_132:

Better words was never spoken!!!!!!!!!!!!!:smilie_132:
 
I may be 100% for the union now. But I have no regrets being on Overnite's side against the union. Would still feel the same way if we were Overnite. But we are UPS now and from what I have seen so far we need the union.:chairshot:

Allthough I agree Skeeter, I still think it was irresponsible for "O" to put us in the position they did.
 
Correct - BUT

but what you described happened, is a big reason why so many want nothing to do with the union.

..... at whose hands? Can we, without a shadow of a doubt, point our fingers to the teamsters, for ALL the scare tactics, ALL the terror, everything? You have to remember I was one of the strongest defenders of "O", never wavered for one instance.

Until, on a dare, I took "a walk on the wild side", not just once, but quite enough to realize that I was a freaking fool, and being used by "O" management. Geeeesh - did I ever fall off of that high horse and hit the ground hard. Let us just say that I have no illusions about anything anymore, even after all these years, except that there is God in Heaven, and Satan in Hell. Everything else is "Yeah, riiiiiigggght - and donkeys fly.", along with that 1,000 yard stare.

So, yes - the terrors did what they were intended to do, the intimidation too, but like I asked - exactly WHERE has it been proven that it was all one sided terror and intimidation on the part of the teamsters? If you wanted to tame a wild animal, would you terrorize it, make it afraid of you? Where is that proven to be a wonderful way of making friends and influencing people? Did the terror reign have the desired result? It did if the purpose of it was to turn people against the teamsters and the IBT. I learned people are strange sorts - they will do anything for the mere acknowledgment from higher powers. Including hurting other people physically and mentally if they think they can get away with it. There are people that would never believe there was anything other that the gospel truth coming out of "O" management mouths during that time. Still won't believe it. Would you stake your life on it being ALL teamster doings during that time? I would have, but not after my walk on the wild side.

I have to say, there were hot headed people on both sides of the fence, but I also have to say that I worked the late shift - sometimes until 2am and I drove in alone, went home alone out on the expressway - you know, lots of places where an overpass could have hidden a sniper. All that time, everyone walking the lines day and night in Memphis, those visiting, knew who I was, what my car looked like, where I lived. I was never harassed, never received a threatening phone call, never had my tires cut, never had my car damaged - not one unkind word spoken to me. I am not a special person, I walked the walk, talked the talk and minced no words where the teamsters were concerned. IF it was ALL teamster doings, don't you think they would have taken me out one way or another early in the strike? Maybe I just didn't have sense God gave a goose to be afraid, but then, the teamsters never gave me anything to be afraid about.

And, neither did the "O" guys/ladies walking the lines. All of that came later, after the strike. From "O" management. From an operations manager that stopped me one afternoon and out of the clear blue sky told me they could give the jobs I was doing to a male co-worker and do away with me and my job and laughed. I then told him that I could go downtown the next day to the labor board and report his abuse and threats (the Memphis "O" terminal was deemed to be the worst labor law violator by the entire labor board lawyers) - he countered by calling Richmond and telling them I had threatened his life. They even sent someone down to investigate it. Of course the gentleman had to side with him, but he shook my hand and told me he felt it was something of a "put up" situation. I thanked him for his trouble, took the reprimand, and went back to work. That particular threat was never made to me again. Of course, it could have been - had the operations manager not sat on the side of his bed one night and fell over at the early age of less than 46 years old and died of a heart attack. I did not dislike him, did not "hate" him - after all, he was only doing what he was told to do by upper management.

Everyone has their own stories, everyone sooner or later has been ground down under someone's foot or thumb at one time or another. And, I do believe everyone agrees it is more than time for it to be stopped stone cold in it's tracks.

"O" is now dust in the wind, but most of the dregs of sorry management are still in place. Don't for one minute think they are going anywhere, either. They may be biting their tongues, just waiting - but if they are not stopped now, you can be sure they will not hesitate to start up at a moments notice.

You remember that story that circulated about how the teamsters drove up to the home office in a "blue" bus dressed up as clowns and drunk as skunks? Everyone of us had a good bellylaugh over that one - however, did you know that it was filmed by the teamsters from the get go to the end, and amazing - not a one of them were dressed as clowns, not a one of them were drunk, and they certainly were not driving a "blue" bus. And, it was not a put up video, I recognized people in that video on both sides, and it begs the question - who shot the "O" road driver from the overpass that day as he was coming in to the Memphis terminal - a teamster, a teamster sympathizer, or a hired shooter from a place you would never have believed?

Darkstar
 
Was there really an "O" driver shot?
I heard about "O" staging some fake video on a shooting and other things. Not sure if this was the incident.
 
..... at whose hands? Can we, without a shadow of a doubt, point our fingers to the teamsters, for ALL the scare tactics, ALL the terror, everything? You have to remember I was one of the strongest defenders of "O", never wavered for one instance.

Until, on a dare, I took "a walk on the wild side", not just once, but quite enough to realize that I was a freaking fool, and being used by "O" management. Geeeesh - did I ever fall off of that high horse and hit the ground hard. Let us just say that I have no illusions about anything anymore, even after all these years, except that there is God in Heaven, and Satan in Hell. Everything else is "Yeah, riiiiiigggght - and donkeys fly.", along with that 1,000 yard stare.

So, yes - the terrors did what they were intended to do, the intimidation too, but like I asked - exactly WHERE has it been proven that it was all one sided terror and intimidation on the part of the teamsters? If you wanted to tame a wild animal, would you terrorize it, make it afraid of you? Where is that proven to be a wonderful way of making friends and influencing people? Did the terror reign have the desired result? It did if the purpose of it was to turn people against the teamsters and the IBT. I learned people are strange sorts - they will do anything for the mere acknowledgment from higher powers. Including hurting other people physically and mentally if they think they can get away with it. There are people that would never believe there was anything other that the gospel truth coming out of "O" management mouths during that time. Still won't believe it. Would you stake your life on it being ALL teamster doings during that time? I would have, but not after my walk on the wild side.

I have to say, there were hot headed people on both sides of the fence, but I also have to say that I worked the late shift - sometimes until 2am and I drove in alone, went home alone out on the expressway - you know, lots of places where an overpass could have hidden a sniper. All that time, everyone walking the lines day and night in Memphis, those visiting, knew who I was, what my car looked like, where I lived. I was never harassed, never received a threatening phone call, never had my tires cut, never had my car damaged - not one unkind word spoken to me. I am not a special person, I walked the walk, talked the talk and minced no words where the teamsters were concerned. IF it was ALL teamster doings, don't you think they would have taken me out one way or another early in the strike? Maybe I just didn't have sense God gave a goose to be afraid, but then, the teamsters never gave me anything to be afraid about.

And, neither did the "O" guys/ladies walking the lines. All of that came later, after the strike. From "O" management. From an operations manager that stopped me one afternoon and out of the clear blue sky told me they could give the jobs I was doing to a male co-worker and do away with me and my job and laughed. I then told him that I could go downtown the next day to the labor board and report his abuse and threats (the Memphis "O" terminal was deemed to be the worst labor law violator by the entire labor board lawyers) - he countered by calling Richmond and telling them I had threatened his life. They even sent someone down to investigate it. Of course the gentleman had to side with him, but he shook my hand and told me he felt it was something of a "put up" situation. I thanked him for his trouble, took the reprimand, and went back to work. That particular threat was never made to me again. Of course, it could have been - had the operations manager not sat on the side of his bed one night and fell over at the early age of less than 46 years old and died of a heart attack. I did not dislike him, did not "hate" him - after all, he was only doing what he was told to do by upper management.

Everyone has their own stories, everyone sooner or later has been ground down under someone's foot or thumb at one time or another. And, I do believe everyone agrees it is more than time for it to be stopped stone cold in it's tracks.

"O" is now dust in the wind, but most of the dregs of sorry management are still in place. Don't for one minute think they are going anywhere, either. They may be biting their tongues, just waiting - but if they are not stopped now, you can be sure they will not hesitate to start up at a moments notice.

You remember that story that circulated about how the teamsters drove up to the home office in a "blue" bus dressed up as clowns and drunk as skunks? Everyone of us had a good bellylaugh over that one - however, did you know that it was filmed by the teamsters from the get go to the end, and amazing - not a one of them were dressed as clowns, not a one of them were drunk, and they certainly were not driving a "blue" bus. And, it was not a put up video, I recognized people in that video on both sides, and it begs the question - who shot the "O" road driver from the overpass that day as he was coming in to the Memphis terminal - a teamster, a teamster sympathizer, or a hired shooter from a place you would never have believed?

Darkstar

Again I say and I believe, if "O" was acting in a responsible manner being concearned for our welfare, they (upper MGNT.) WOULD HAVE ALLOWED US TO INTERACT WITH A CARD CHECK. And allowed the employees to make the decision.

Instead people were hurt, property was damaged, etc. etc. Truely a managed mess.
 
Yes

Was there really an "O" driver shot?
I heard about "O" staging some fake video on a shooting and other things. Not sure if this was the incident.

It is true - the driver survived, but could not drive a truck anymore. "O" gave him a job as a salesman, and as far as I know, he is still there. I believe he was out of Louisville. He was shot in the stomach.
 
Very true Accelerator

Again I say and I believe, if "O" was acting in a responsible manner being concearned for our welfare, they (upper MGNT.) WOULD HAVE ALLOWED US TO INTERACT WITH A CARD CHECK. And allowed the employees to make the decision.

Instead people were hurt, property was damaged, etc. etc. Truely a managed mess.

and, truer words were never spoken - it was "truely a managed mess". And, at that time, upper management would never, ever, have allowed a card check. They would have rather done what they did and still believed they were right in doing so. No cost was too high.

Darkstar
 
It is true - the driver survived, but could not drive a truck anymore. "O" gave him a job as a salesman, and as far as I know, he is still there. I believe he was out of Louisville. He was shot in the stomach.

Holy crap that really was a horrible time for everyone!

Here is a small snippet from Roger Ebert giving his comment on the "American Standoff" documentary.
Roger Ebert's Movie Yearbook 2003
Look at page 757 (lower right) Than scroll down a bit to the upper left of page 758 for that short comment.

I wonder if that part about paying someone 10,000 dollars is true.
 
and, truer words were never spoken - it was "truely a managed mess". And, at that time, upper management would never, ever, have allowed a card check. They would have rather done what they did and still believed they were right in doing so. No cost was too high.

Darkstar

I am not sure if anyone else saw this, But one day while the strike was going on, our TM at the time walked around the drivers break room with a note pad as we were comming in from our runs, asking us to sighn the pad.

On this pad it said and I quote.

"Union" " No Union"

And underneath the apropriate word's, we had to sighn our names.

Now if I wanted a union, does anybody think I am going to divulge this type of opinion to my boss? It was quite the smart thing to do actually, if you sighned under "UNION" you were marked.
 
Holy crap that really was a horrible time for everyone!

Here is a small snippet from Roger Ebert giving his comment on the "American Standoff" documentary.
Roger Ebert's Movie Yearbook 2003
Look at page 757 (lower right) Than scroll down a bit to the upper left of page 758 for that short comment.

I wonder if that part about paying someone 10,000 dollars is true.

At that time, there was a road driver from Jackson TN that got caught up lying about supposedly receiving money from "O" to do mischief, but strange things were happening, and somehow we never learned if he was ever prosecuted or it was proven to be a lie either way. I believe we will never know the truth about who did what to who out behind the cow barn, and if they were actually being paid to cause harm, being paid to lie about harm being done to them, their homes, their families. I lived in Memphis, and yet it was strange that a lot of what was reported as being fact never made it into the newspapers. Reporters were all over "O" like white on rice at the time, too.

I did at one time have the movie American Standoff, but sent it to someone and never got it back. It did not have time enough to cover a lot of what happened. The ultimate harm done was to the families on the striker's side of the fence, as they struggled to pay bills, struggled to put food on the table, buy medicine, etc. Most people shrug and say "If they could not stand the heat, they should have never walked out ....", but sometimes you just have to brace the lion and go into the lion's den for your own sake, for your own beliefs, for something you think is worth it all. And, those paid for their beliefs in one way or another.

Darkstar
 
Ovnt was the #1 labor law violating company in american history. Lets all face the facts, if we were still ovnt this union would never happen. The real story behind the union at UPSF is the fact that the upper regional management are the ones who are driving all this discontent at our jobs. They have never given a crap about us really, but when we were ovnt they had to kiss our butts, so we would remain non-union. Now that UPS owns us they always knew the union was a foregone conclusion, so they took care of themselves, and made our jobs suck. The upper management are always the ones who get canned in a take over, so these long time ovnt guys said "F these a-hole peons, I have to keep myself employeed.'
 
You guys stop this you got me hating the union again. The union was going to shut down Overnite :hysterical:

Yes, The majority got together and the Union never stood a chance. So you can make all the comments you want to. Most here will always disagree. Overnite prevailed and the union went down in flames.
I don't mind organizing UPSF. But keep Overnite out of the picture if you want more terminals to go union. Just some friendly advice. Leave those wounds along to heal or we will never come together.
 
maybe ....

Ovnt was the #1 labor law violating company in american history. Lets all face the facts, if we were still ovnt this union would never happen. The real story behind the union at UPSF is the fact that the upper regional management are the ones who are driving all this discontent at our jobs. They have never given a crap about us really, but when we were ovnt they had to kiss our butts, so we would remain non-union. Now that UPS owns us they always knew the union was a foregone conclusion, so they took care of themselves, and made our jobs suck. The upper management are always the ones who get canned in a take over, so these long time ovnt guys said "F these a-hole peons, I have to keep myself employeed.'

... but at the Memphis terminal, our butts were never kissed, our hands patted, or the red carpet rolled out for us. We were always told if we did not like the way things were, there was the door, and don't let it hit you in the arse on the way out. There was such a large turnover there, applications were taken daily for all positions, office and otherwise.

The only times I can remember any kindness from management was when they were trying to get us to do something we had better sense not to do, but fell for the gig anyway. Like working overtime off the clock. Like expecting us to lie to the right people about something that happened so they would not be in trouble with those same right people. Etc, etc, etc.

When the Memphis terminal split into a city terminal (at a different location) and the long haul part, we (the city part) had a pretty decent terminal manager. He was a riot. And he thought I was a heartless biatch. He learned better, but he still never really knew what I was thinking. And, I still thought he was a riot. Then, we had to merge again. And the terminal manager that was above it all did learn I could be a heartless biatch.

"O" was great with the intimidation whip, but I still believe this would have happened sooner or later.

Yeah, they were the nation's greatest labor law violator - and UPS only did what they could do to keep the money flowing into their pockets. They had the good sense to realize those days of intimidation were over, and got on with what had to be done the quickest way possible.

Darkstar
 
Skeeter, skeeter, skeeter .....

You guys stop this you got me hating the union again. The union was going to shut down Overnite :hysterical:

Yes, The majority got together and the Union never stood a chance. So you can make all the comments you want to. Most here will always disagree. Overnite prevailed and the union went down in flames.
I don't mind organizing UPSF. But keep Overnite out of the picture if you want more terminals to go union. Just some friendly advice. Leave those wounds along to heal or we will never come together.

.... where you been amigo?

Skeeter, just because you never saw what we saw, never went thru with what we went thru, had a "wonderful" terminal manger when all we had was a suckarse, does not mean it was not true. And, deep down, I believe you know that.

I know you have your beliefs of what went on, and no one wants to change that, but you also have to look at the whole picture, not just the California connection.

Those wounds are healed, but you never forget the branding irons that put them there. If you do, you are doomed to the same mistakes over and over again.

I will send a "razberry" your way for you only wanting to see the trees, and not the forest. :hysterical: :smilie_132:

Darkstar
 
.... where you been amigo?

Skeeter, just because you never saw what we saw, never went thru with what we went thru, had a "wonderful" terminal manger when all we had was a suckarse, does not mean it was not true. And, deep down, I believe you know that.

I know you have your beliefs of what went on, and no one wants to change that, but you also have to look at the whole picture, not just the California connection.

Those wounds are healed, but you never forget the branding irons that put them there. If you do, you are doomed to the same mistakes over and over again.

I will send a "razberry" your way for you only wanting to see the trees, and not the forest. :hysterical: :smilie_132:

Darkstar

Darkstar, We have been down this road before. You can say what you want I have seen the whole picture. So has the majority of Overnite and has spoken. So there is always a few bad apples in every company. You just happen to be in that barrel.
But I will always defend Overnite. So you can keep typing your trash all you want.
 
PMS time for you, huh Skeeter ......

Darkstar, We have been down this road before. You can say what you want I have seen the whole picture. So has the majority of Overnite and has spoken. So there is always a few bad apples in every company. You just happen to be in that barrel.
But I will always defend Overnite. So you can keep typing your trash all you want.

:hysterical: Funny, funny - seems I was not "a bad apple" until I saw exactly what was going on and let others in on it - was I?

I don't expect you to do otherwise than "defend Overnite" - that is always your priviledge. I don't believe you are foolish or "a bad apple" for that. There are others here that do the same, but at least they do not have tunnel vision like some others, know there is/was a verrrry dark side to everything that happened during "that" time.

Go to your wife's medicine cabinet and take one of her Midol tablets and get some rest - I am sure you just got home from your run and need to relax. You are kinda p!ssy right now. :hysterical:

Darkstar
 
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