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ABF | Abf Or No?

ABF or Tanker

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canaryinthemine said:
I am retired, Brother Dokman........more than 2 years. Enrolled in ABF-sponsored Fidelity 401(k) way back in 1996........After several "market adjustments"........I directed my contributions to no-risk bonds.....Tired of watching my money spin away on the big roulette wheel that Wall Street runs...

Didn't make any money,....but didn't lose any either....Just about the same amount of profit ...than if I had put it in a bank and earned interest.......

You see,......I don't have the "nerve"....to gamble with my retirement. Too important.......
But,....if a 401(k) is all your employer offers,........you have to...."gamble"......whether you want to, or not.

Or,....you don't have enough money to retire.

I think,.....for the Average investor,........the deck is stacked, and the rules are..."fluid"..(No one asked me if I wanted ABF to get out of Fidelity and go to Prudential...).
I think that the moneyed class promotes an ...idea that the ...average investor,....can achieve a rate of return that a veteran Wall Street Trader would be proud of.......

The leading edge of working class people who are retiring on a 401(k) solely,...is just now happening. May of 1998 is the first time in our history that defined-contribution 401(k)-style "pensions"....exceeded traditional defined-benefit pensions,...as an employer offering for retirement.

So,...it will shortly be seen whether the...."average"....person can successfully retire solely on a 401(k),.....or, was there a big sales push to....benefit Wall Street with an influx of payroll deduction cash from millions of people who....have no clue how to invest successfully......

I've heard a few horror stories of people "running out of money" in retirement. That does not happen with a defined-benefit pension,......so, this has to be an unfortunate individual who relied solely on a 401(k).
There are commercials on TV warning people to....use their advertised services,..to "prevent running out of money in retirement"....

There wouldn't be commercials advertising such,.....if the possibility didn't exist.

I just have a..."long view".....that the money "industry" in the world wants to wreck the ability of working people to...retire....
And,.....forced payroll deductions to 401(k)'s ...provides a helluva lotta "working cash"....that Wall Street didn't have 20 years ago.....

Keeping older workers in the Labor Pool longer,.....benefits whom?
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Are not the defined plans running out of money.

Your pension is in same market as 401 k, not sure what ones you choose, but mine has done rather well.
 
Trucker 206 said:
Canary did nothing of the sort, homesick. His post(s) contain(s) some ‘ifs’ plus lots of facts too. Frankly I’m suspect if you’re actually a Teamster member...if I’m wrong, then that’s on me. Undeniable is that fact that we have witnessed, over the last 40+ years, the largest transfer of wealth in human history. More and more, we see Wall Streets ‘soldiers’ pounding their ‘knowledge’ upon the American people on these 401k plans and IRA’s as if they’re the Second Coming of Christ (apologies to our Hebrew friends). Mind you, I’m not saying they’re all bad, as I have one myself...one that I have not put ONE DIME of my own money into, as I’ve rolled it a few times whether by changing employers, or by changing investment firms. It’s been kinda fun watching it over the last 26 years I must say! Up...down...up...down, etc. then...2008. KABOOM!!! Then there’s my Teamsters Pension Plan of which I’m now drawing on. The fund took a little dip ten years ago too, but is currently 93% funded. Pretty darn good, I’d say.

You’re investment-savvy...I like that. Me? Just an average Joe, but I do keep a finger on the pulse of my/our money. I wish we all had the financial ‘horse-sense’ to manage money enough for a secure and happy retirement. But, sadly, not all of us do. Best of luck to you, brother! May the warm winds of Heaven blow softly on your home, and may the Good Lord bless all who enter!
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Read through butch Lewis act real close. High fees and bad investment and fact that it is a ponzi scheme has killed the fund.
You mentioned orphan in early post. If you work for company for short time and move on their is an unfunded liability that goes with you.
 
dokman said:
Read through butch Lewis act real close. High fees and bad investment and fact that it is a ponzi scheme has killed the fund.
You mentioned orphan in early post. If you work for company for short time and move on their is an unfunded liability that goes with you.
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Or, if you leave a company before you’re vested. That money was paid in, and continues to earn interest which ‘increases’ the funds value. Many guys I know left companies with pension plans BEFORE they were vested.
 
Trucker 206 said:
Or, if you leave a company before you’re vested. That money was paid in, and continues to earn interest which ‘increases’ the funds value. Many guys I know left companies with pension plans BEFORE they were vested.
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If you leave a company before you are vested and hire into another in the same plan do you have to start over?
 
ltl1 said:
ABF is a good company to work for, just people don't want to pay there dues. Nights, swing shifts, peddles,dock etc. Like canary said I would never be a truck driver without the union as a buffer.
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I paid my dues at ABF. When I hired in, it was 2 years before I would get a bid. Then the giveback contract happened right around my two years, and I rode out an additional 3 years without ever holding a bid... And I paid 7% of my income for the privilege.

I'm all about paying my dues. I understand that is a necessary evil. But sometimes you have to ask what you're getting in return.
 
LTLAnonymous said:
I paid my dues at ABF. When I hired in, it was 2 years before I would get a bid. Then the giveback contract happened right around my two years, and I rode out an additional 3 years without ever holding a bid... And I paid 7% of my income for the privilege.

I'm all about paying my dues. I understand that is a necessary evil. But sometimes you have to ask what you're getting in return.
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Great post. Isn't researching how investments work and educating yourself on retirement also part of paying your dues? Or is paying your dues only about longevity in the workplace and working crappy shifts?
 
joes bar and grill said:
If you leave a company before you are vested and hire into another in the same plan do you have to start over?
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Not sure here, but...I think if you go from one Teamster company directly to another, you keep your tenure. If you go elsewhere, like to a different union or a non-union company before you’re vested, you would lose it. Please chime in if anyone has the straight poop on this.
 
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Homesick said:
Great post. Isn't researching how investments work and educating yourself on retirement also part of paying your dues? Or is paying your dues only about longevity in the workplace and working crappy shifts?
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Not sure I’ve seen any contract language that addresses researching and educating oneself on retirement. On the flip, I’ve seen PLENTY of contract language addressing paying your dues and longevity in the workplace (seniority).
 
Trucker 206 said:
Not sure I’ve seen any contract language that addresses researching and educating oneself on retirement. On the flip, I’ve seen PLENTY of contract language addressing paying your dues and longevity in the workplace (seniority).
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You are correct brother. Researching and educating oneself on retirement is something no teamster should ever do. Never. If it is not in the contract you have no business doing it. I absolutely agree-not.
 
Homesick said:
You are correct brother. Researching and educating oneself on retirement is something no teamster should ever do. Never. If it is not in the contract you have no business doing it. I absolutely agree-not.
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My point was that it’s something we should all be doing anyway. A contract ‘mandate’ isn’t required. Humor...a difficult concept. It is not logical.
 
GO40 said:
No....
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That was the idea behind MEPFs.....And I was able , personally, to take advantage of that.

Unfortunately,.......rules for a "Break-in-Service" sometimes change. I also incurred a Break-in-Service, and lost about 5 years of pension time.......

Now,.....where , or to whom,....does that 5 years of deferred wage pension money,....paid on my behalf in lieu of wages,......Go?
 
canaryinthemine said:
That was the idea behind MEPFs.....And I was able , personally, to take advantage of that.

Unfortunately,.......rules for a "Break-in-Service" sometimes change. I also incurred a Break-in-Service, and lost about 5 years of pension time.......

Now,.....where , or to whom,....does that 5 years of deferred wage pension money,....paid on my behalf in lieu of wages,......Go?
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You made no contributions for 5 years, you should not get anything for that time. Your prior years and current made up your years of service. And their is still a unfunded liability that your company left on your behalf.
 
dokman said:
You made no contributions for 5 years, you should not get anything for that time. Your prior years and current made up your years of service. And their is still a unfunded liability that your company left on your behalf.
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Well,...that would be about 9 companies,......Gateway, Motor Freight, Werner-Continental, Hall's, Maislin, Mason-Dixon, Automobile Transport, M & G Convoy, and Nu-Car Carriers........

Explain "unfunded liability" to me........All those carriers paid into the W. Pa. pension fund,....they all went out of business prior to, at least, 1990,....
....and our pension fund was 99% funded in 2003........

Is the term "unfunded liability" something intangible?........Some term made up to somehow "blame" older Teamsters for a financial collapse that occurred in ....2008?

A company declaring bankruptcy now,....in an MEPF plan, would have an "unfunded liability" to the plan that's greatly magnified, due to the amount of "original carriers" in the MEPF,....and everyone on the seniority lists who ever worked for those carriers, and has vested time in the MEPF.
There were several thousand carriers that went bankrupt after deregulation in 1980, and the subsequent decade......Yet,...just about all MEPFs were 95% or above in their funding,.....10 years later, going into the 2000's.....when the bankruptcy rate had greatly slowed down.

Demographics showed that the...bulk of guys in MEPFs, that had worked for companies that had failed due to deregulation,...had retired by the 2000's....
......and the funds were,...as I said,....funded roughly around 95% nationwide.......

The term "unfunded liability" began to be bandied about around the passage of the 2014 Omnibus Bill, that gave the Treasury Department authority to...cut existing pensions,....for the first time in the....history of defined-benefit pensions.....

Prior to 2014,...I never heard the term "unfunded liability",........I was on several Pension Improvement Committees during the 2000's,.....and I have 10 years' worth of Form 5500's for the Western Pennsylvania Pension Fund.....

Never saw the term "unfunded liability" used in context of MEPFs....until passage of the Omnibus Bill in 2014.
 
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