ABF | Butch Lewis Act
- Thread starter canaryinthemine
- Start date
Brother, what would it have meant if the pension fund had made it to the "fully-funded" status? This may seem like a stupid question but I don't know.
The government makes the pension plan increase payouts to future retirees to stay under 100% funded. A STUPID RULE. Central states for example was forced by the government to double payments to all new retirees. My great uncle retired in the early 80s and got $1500 a month for 30 years of service. Now they pay over 3000 for 30 years. By ERISA laws pension funds couldn’t cut payouts back until Obama signed the Omnibus of 2014. Those politicians should’ve fixed this 20 years ago, but instead kicked it down the road for someone else to deal with it. Them numbers come from central states so other pension funds had different payouts but basically got handled the same way.
canaryinthemine
Retirement....The Job I Was Born To Have!
- Credits
- 0
Thanks, I read Sacs post (thanks to him also). I'm just trying to understand it in the context you explain and in the overall view of the upcoming great pension collapse. My knee jerk reaction is to ask....why not just go back to 50% of what the payout is now? Also a knee jerk reaction is to wonder if $1,500 for 30 years isn't more inline with annuity rates? Also to wonder if undoing the government regulation (returning to pre 1980 rate of retun in Sacs example) now (in 2019) might keep the pension from collapsing? I'm also wondering if a return to the original (pre 1980) rate of retun for the pension might get companies like ABF on the side of stopping the great pension collapse?
But the pension is a complicated issue and my knee jerk reactions sometimes make me look stupid. I was not ignoring Sacs, I am just taking the time to think through what he posted.
Last edited:
2014 ERISA expired so there should have been a fix. The house and senate had plenty of warnings but ignored it. The only people that can make new laws are the legislative branches. Unless we as teamsters can sway the vote it will just go belly up. Our biggest chance is to do it during an election year unless we get into the pork of another bill. The Democrats could have put this into a pork bill onto the Spending bill that Trump signed. Why didn’t they do it? I think it’s because neither party wants a solution to the problem. Can’t get people to fight unless there is something to fight about. Just my opinion.
canaryinthemine
Retirement....The Job I Was Born To Have!
- Credits
- 0
Don’t forget that each fund is administered as an individual stand-alone entity. The ERISA law was enacted in 1974...many MEPFs were only about 20 years into their creation.....the first wave of 30 year retirees hadn’t happened, when the rules got “adjusted” by Government fiat.
There are several factors that contributed to the tribulations of MEPFs........including deregulation.....and Big Business’ enamored response to.....employees “funding” their own retirement with.....defined-contribution funds.
People have been warning,...for years,....that the rules for MEPF defined-benefit funds......were deliberately altered to cripple and de-fund,........and eventually destroy... MEPFs.....
Why? It’s the same sort of pension Congress gets.......Most Public Service and Government employee’s also.....
So,.........if our Legislators think it’s good enough for them........Why are they making rules to....cripple private-sector defined-benefit pensions?
Who would........stand to gain? Forcing individual employees to ......involuntarily......play the stock market...(with NO guarantees...) to fund their own retirement....
.......benefits who?
Big Donors=Big Employers........and we all know how they feel about pensions.......
Brothers, this is my stop. Thanks for the informing you and Sacs gave. It is aprisheated but conspiracy theories is my stop.
canaryinthemine
Retirement....The Job I Was Born To Have!
- Credits
- 0
The financial industry doesn’t.......conspire......with lawmakers through lobbyists......to maximize their profits.....at the expense of ......everyone else?
That’s your threshold of a....wacky conspiracy theory?
Heck.......just about everyone else thinks the financial industry(Wall Street, for “shorthand”....) has been bending laws their way....for at least a century or two.....
Why did they create the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau? Why did Congress remove usery limits on credit cards?
Why did Wells Fargo create 20,000 phony accounts to.....steal money from their customers?
I could go on for probably.....hundreds of examples....
My apologies if My Opinion ruffles your sensibilities toward the moneyed class....
Something about a recent law allowing my pension to be reduced...must be affecting my judgement.....
That’s your threshold of a....wacky conspiracy theory?
Heck.......just about everyone else thinks the financial industry(Wall Street, for “shorthand”....) has been bending laws their way....for at least a century or two.....
Why did they create the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau? Why did Congress remove usery limits on credit cards?
Why did Wells Fargo create 20,000 phony accounts to.....steal money from their customers?
I could go on for probably.....hundreds of examples....
My apologies if My Opinion ruffles your sensibilities toward the moneyed class....
Something about a recent law allowing my pension to be reduced...must be affecting my judgement.....
There are literally thousands, even millions of examples of laws being changed to "improve" society. The biggest one that comes to my mind at this moment was prohibition (the 18th amendment ratified in 1919). That was not just a law (rules to guide society) but a fundamental right guaranteed by God (according to our U.S.A. decloration of independent).
You see changes to societal rules as conspiracies and I see them as adjustments to the American experiment. Our country is still young when compared to Europe, the middle east, China, etc. Democracy is still in the trial and learning process but you seem to want a perfect law the first time and everytime. And when the laws are changed (as in the 13th amendment, prohibiting or laws regarding pensions) you see them as a conspiracy.
I wonder was the 13th amendment to the U.S. constitution a conspiracy against big farmers and property owners?
Last edited:
canaryinthemine
Retirement....The Job I Was Born To Have!
- Credits
- 0
Well,....If you ask the Anti-reconstructionists and the Krude Krass Klowns..(..had to disguise that to post it..).. at the time....in their eyes, that was exactly what the 13th Amendment was about......
And......165 years later,...in the manifestos of the various mass shooters,.....apparently, the 13th Amendment is...still controversial.....and, in some eyes, a "conspiracy".....
The 18th Amendment was a politically-driven "experiment".....that was repealed by another politically-driven Amendment 14 years later....the 23rd.....
And,...if you're of the "female" persuasion......the failure of the various States to...ratify the Equal Rights Amendment...probably sure seems like a conspiracy by us men,...you and I,.....to keep women "in their place..."
We can't talk politics here,......For one thing,...I don't have my HAZ-MAT suit and rubber boots back from the cleaners,...last time I talked politics.....
Sorry brother, I didn't mean to get into politics, I was just pointing out a couple of major events in history that many people thought where conspiracies. I did not mean political.
Brother, I would like to take a few minutes and address your lobbyists conspiracy theories. You make a point of financial institutions and business using lobbyists to lobby Congress to make laws "to maximize their profits.....at the expense of ......everyone else?" And I agree they do. But let's also take a moment to look at the lobbyists for the AARP (American Association of Retired Persons) who lobby all the time for retired citizens (such as yourself).
How about environmental groups who spend millions of dollars lobbying Congress to limit business? Google environmental groups lobbying spending, whooo what a lot of money. (and I thank them for that)
And how about the NRA lobbying for no gun control, and not for gun manufacturers either but for individuals rights to protect/kill each other (my wife and I both have concealed carry permits).
I'll end here because this post could go on for......well as long as some of your posts (LOL....I thought that was funny).
Trucker 206
TB Veteran
- Credits
- 0
Don’t forget the moon landings. Those were conspiracy theories also, so there’s that.
Thank you brother, the moon landing (actually produced in Hollywood) and area 51(a crashed U.F.O.) where my first choices for conspiracy theory but I just couldn't figure out how to make them relevant.
Trucker 206
TB Veteran
- Credits
- 0
The moon landing was filmed at a car repair shop in Buffalo. As for Area 51, well...if the US Government can’t fake people out after 50 tries, I want no part of it.
canaryinthemine
Retirement....The Job I Was Born To Have!
- Credits
- 0
Then, Brother,.....you have to determine whether the “conspiracy “ is.......benign.....or malignant....
Passing laws to bend more money your way......thereby getting more money and power......is the antithesis of our Constitution...
Lobbying to.....improve the environment,....or give a greater voice to retired people...is a far nobler endeavor.......than self-enrichment....
We’re not going to talk about guns or the NRA.........that is too raw and......topical......for our little opinion thread here....
Brother, I once read an article about lobbyists that made the most sense to me. I would like to give a brief summary of that article to get your opinion.
The most powerful lobbying groups are those who can put the most people in the field the quickest. The NRA, AARP, Sierra Club can send out mass texts, emails and phone calls to have any townhall meeting or meetings with any politician filled to over capacity within 2 to 4 hours. The voices of their members are such that all opposition is drowned out by the shear number of people attending.
Lobbying groups are the most basic way to voice your opinion and grievances to the government. People only join groups that have their core values. These groups then have the ability through shear voting numbers to compel politicians to listen to their values and represent them according.
That was a paraphrased article as nearly as I can remember it. Money from businesses is great to politicians but dollars do not vote for them, people vote for them. And the greatest number of voters are those who want change, those voters who are satisfied have no real incentive to voice their opinions.
The most powerful lobbying groups are those who can put the most people in the field the quickest. The NRA, AARP, Sierra Club can send out mass texts, emails and phone calls to have any townhall meeting or meetings with any politician filled to over capacity within 2 to 4 hours. The voices of their members are such that all opposition is drowned out by the shear number of people attending.
Lobbying groups are the most basic way to voice your opinion and grievances to the government. People only join groups that have their core values. These groups then have the ability through shear voting numbers to compel politicians to listen to their values and represent them according.
That was a paraphrased article as nearly as I can remember it. Money from businesses is great to politicians but dollars do not vote for them, people vote for them. And the greatest number of voters are those who want change, those voters who are satisfied have no real incentive to voice their opinions.
canaryinthemine
Retirement....The Job I Was Born To Have!
- Credits
- 0
People joined groups with similar values and lobbied Congress for changes in Legislation....True....
Until Citizen's United......Then the "playing field" was permanently tipped toward the wealthy. In debating the McCain-Feingold Campaign Finance Reform Bill,....Sen. Mitch McConnell said : "Spending Is Free Speech.."
But,...That belies the question: "How much Free Speech can you Afford?....And How Much can your Employer Afford?"
The reason I became so heavily involved with political finance is because,...in My Opinion.....Union are outspent probably 100 to 1 as far as Advocating for Working People,...and Federal and State laws pretty much crippled Union's ability to ....lobby...their Legislators at all levels.....
Ask your Local if they have their OWN PAC Fund....I will bet you they don't.......because the Rules,....of which I am VERY conversant with......create very onerous roadblocks for Unions.......
Any poster on here can say their OWN Local had a PAC Fund? I'll be surprised if anyone says they do......Here in JC #40 Western Penna.........out of about 20 Locals in this area,....there are just TWO PAC Funds,.........The second one created in response to the success of the first one.
My point is that the Rules,....as LOBBIED for by the Wealthy,......drastically favor the Wealthy,...and DISTINCTLY discriminate against.......everybody else.....
And,...the Wealthy aren't concerned with ...Labor Rights,...Economic Justice,....Clean Environment......
They are concerned with.....Tax Cuts and Maximizing Profits..........
And.....that's the....entire list......
Billionaires are a ....very tiny minority of the Voting Public.......So, they spend quite a bit of money trying to...."trick"...a lot of working people into voting the ....billionaire's way......sometimes to the....detriment of the Working People's OWN INTERESTS!
Unions do not have.....billions....to put their own views out there....
So,....Who is "right"? The ones with the most money? ...Or......Horrors!.....the ones with the most....Ethics?
Until Citizen's United......Then the "playing field" was permanently tipped toward the wealthy. In debating the McCain-Feingold Campaign Finance Reform Bill,....Sen. Mitch McConnell said : "Spending Is Free Speech.."
But,...That belies the question: "How much Free Speech can you Afford?....And How Much can your Employer Afford?"
The reason I became so heavily involved with political finance is because,...in My Opinion.....Union are outspent probably 100 to 1 as far as Advocating for Working People,...and Federal and State laws pretty much crippled Union's ability to ....lobby...their Legislators at all levels.....
Ask your Local if they have their OWN PAC Fund....I will bet you they don't.......because the Rules,....of which I am VERY conversant with......create very onerous roadblocks for Unions.......
Any poster on here can say their OWN Local had a PAC Fund? I'll be surprised if anyone says they do......Here in JC #40 Western Penna.........out of about 20 Locals in this area,....there are just TWO PAC Funds,.........The second one created in response to the success of the first one.
My point is that the Rules,....as LOBBIED for by the Wealthy,......drastically favor the Wealthy,...and DISTINCTLY discriminate against.......everybody else.....
And,...the Wealthy aren't concerned with ...Labor Rights,...Economic Justice,....Clean Environment......
They are concerned with.....Tax Cuts and Maximizing Profits..........
And.....that's the....entire list......
Billionaires are a ....very tiny minority of the Voting Public.......So, they spend quite a bit of money trying to...."trick"...a lot of working people into voting the ....billionaire's way......sometimes to the....detriment of the Working People's OWN INTERESTS!
Unions do not have.....billions....to put their own views out there....
So,....Who is "right"? The ones with the most money? ...Or......Horrors!.....the ones with the most....Ethics?
I don’t think trump has any interest in protecting our pensions his administration is constantly attacking unions right to negotiate fair contracts ,he has set the Supreme Court up to be in favor of big business.His administration is always seeking to destroy the rights of private public and federal workers .He will talk a good game