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ABF | Butch Lewis Act

I'm not sure if many of you guys realize it,...but H.R.397...the Butch Lewis Act,....has passed the House on July 24th,..and has now moved on to the Senate......There were about 22 Republicans joining with the Democratic Majority to pass this Bill.

The legislation now resides in that big pile of bills that sit on Senator Mitch McConnell's desk.....probably at the very bottom.....

Now is the time to write your Senator,........

It may be.....politically expedient...to do so. Many Republicans are looking for "feel-good" legislation that will distract from any sort of gun legislation act,.......Something that appears "pro-worker"......

I realize that's a very.....cynical....view of how Congress works......(..but that's the way it...."works"..)....

Write your Senator......We need a Veto-Proof majority,...so about 20 Republican Senators need to actively support this Bill....

Growaset said:
I don’t think trump has any interest in protecting our pensions his administration is constantly attacking unions right to negotiate fair contracts ,he has set the Supreme Court up to be in favor of big business.His administration is always seeking to destroy the rights of private public and federal workers .He will talk a good game
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Mr. Trump has expressed ...no interest...in any sort of pension reform....Nor does he have an interest in making sure the Pension Benefit Guarantee Insurance Fund,....is fully funded, as REQUIRED by law........
This is why I think we need a Veto-Proof majority..........Mr. Trump MAY approve the Bill.......if it seems politically expedient,.....and ONLY if it seems so.
He fundamentally does not believe in the ....."moral justification"...of the Bill,...and will Veto it if he feels the political "fallout" will be.....minimal,.......
.......and,..God Forbid.....upset his donor class....

This is not a political diatribe........I am merely and coldly assessing the....chances of this Legislation passing,.....given the public statements and actions of our ....various Leaders .

Write your Senator......
 
canaryinthemine said:
People joined groups with similar values and lobbied Congress for changes in Legislation....True....

Until Citizen's United......Then the "playing field" was permanently tipped toward the wealthy. In debating the McCain-Feingold Campaign Finance Reform Bill,....Sen. Mitch McConnell said : "Spending Is Free Speech.."
But,...That belies the question: "How much Free Speech can you Afford?....And How Much can your Employer Afford?"

The reason I became so heavily involved with political finance is because,...in My Opinion.....Union are outspent probably 100 to 1 as far as Advocating for Working People,...and Federal and State laws pretty much crippled Union's ability to ....lobby...their Legislators at all levels.....
Ask your Local if they have their OWN PAC Fund....I will bet you they don't.......because the Rules,....of which I am VERY conversant with......create very onerous roadblocks for Unions.......

Any poster on here can say their OWN Local had a PAC Fund? I'll be surprised if anyone says they do......Here in JC #40 Western Penna.........out of about 20 Locals in this area,....there are just TWO PAC Funds,.........The second one created in response to the success of the first one.

My point is that the Rules,....as LOBBIED for by the Wealthy,......drastically favor the Wealthy,...and DISTINCTLY discriminate against.......everybody else.....
And,...the Wealthy aren't concerned with ...Labor Rights,...Economic Justice,....Clean Environment......

They are concerned with.....Tax Cuts and Maximizing Profits..........
And.....that's the....entire list......

Billionaires are a ....very tiny minority of the Voting Public.......So, they spend quite a bit of money trying to...."trick"...a lot of working people into voting the ....billionaire's way......sometimes to the....detriment of the Working People's OWN INTERESTS!

Unions do not have.....billions....to put their own views out there....

So,....Who is "right"? The ones with the most money? ...Or......Horrors!.....the ones with the most....Ethics?
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Seems a bit simplistic to me. You are phrasing this as a dichotomy; either wealthy or ethics. Wealth gets attention yes, but votes are what is counted.
 
Trucker 206 said:
Well, that’s basically how it is at this point. The wealthy are...dichs. Excuse my spelling.
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Careful! You’ll offend the Great Gods of Tautology!

Homesick said:
Seems a bit simplistic to me. You are phrasing this as a dichotomy; either wealthy or ethics. Wealth gets attention yes, but votes are what is counted.
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Simplistic, yes.......Votes are counted,...that’s pretty simple...
But,......the forces bending the hearts and minds.....behind the votes.....and the wads and piles of money spent to.....influence people to vote against their interests......based on showmanship and salesmanship.......
......and NOT the Greater Good.....

There’s your dichotomy......In fact,...the Sum..(..literally, the money spent..)....is greater than the Whole....(..in this instance, the Public Good..)
 
canaryinthemine said:
Careful! You’ll offend the Great Gods of Tautology!



Simplistic, yes.......Votes are counted,...that’s pretty simple...
But,......the forces bending the hearts and minds.....behind the votes.....and the wads and piles of money spent to.....influence people to vote against their interests......based on showmanship and salesmanship.......
......and NOT the Greater Good.....

There’s your dichotomy......In fact,...the Sum..(..literally, the money spent..)....is greater than the Whole....(..in this instance, the Public Good..)
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Isn't the greater good, what is good for the greatest number of people? And if the greatest number of people vote for something, isn't that the greatest good?

Just curious, how many people do you think are so rich they can spend millions and millions of dollars influencing people to make, what, billions of dollars? What is the rate of return on their money? Why would all these rich people spend so much money? Are they trying to become poor? If money is so easily found, why are we even worried about the pension; can't we just pickup this easy money off the ground or from the money trees?

I'm being a little facetious but you keep posting like so many people are so rich they can just literally give money away. Business have to answer to stockholders and board of directors. Businesses also have to pay dividends and investments in the company. They do not have the money to just waist on political issues anymore than nonprofits do.
 
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Homesick said:
Isn't the greater good, what is good for the greatest number of people? And if the greatest number of people vote for something, isn't that the greatest good?

Just curious, how many people do you think are so rich they can spend millions and millions of dollars influencing people to make, what, billions of dollars? What is the rate of return on their money? Why would all these rich people spend so much money? Are they trying to become poor? If money is so easily found, why are we even worried about the pension; can't we just pickup this easy money off the ground or from the money trees?

I'm being a little facetious but you keep posting like so many people are so rich they can just literally give money away. Business have to answer to stockholders and board of directors. Businesses also have to pay dividends and investments in the company. They do not have the money to just waist on political issues anymore than nonprofits do.
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And just think, Canary had me believing there were actually big companies that had lobbyist spending big money
to make changes.
 
Triplex said:
Oh no, looks like everybody is doing it!!!
https://www.northjersey.com/story/n...profit-new-direction-nj-njea-seiu/1888170001/
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Yup.........Everyone is......Only Unions can do it about 100 times less than corporations. And....the way they got "found out" is that Unions MUST, by Law,....publicly file with the State Election commission how much they spent on each candidate.......

Unlike corporations spending through SuperPAC's.....anonymously.....

If you read the whole article,..it appears that the two Unions in question attempted to set up a SuperPAC,...to "launder" the money....anonymously, like corporations do,.....to the politicians who seem to favor their cause....

What makes the article newsworthy,...is that it is a Violation of FEC law,....for a Union to not file an independent posting of their campaign spending........And,..as you read the article,...apparently they were "slow-walking" their reporting to the FEC.....( I believe the news article reported it was the "FCC"....which has nothing to do with campaign finance,...whereas the "FEC" does....Typo?..)

Now,.....How many...."Secret"....donations are coming from ...your Employer? If they donate to a SuperPAC,....the individual corporations are....according to the 2010 Supreme Court "Citizen's United vs. FEC" afforded the same anonymity that a....private citizen has.....by ONLY reporting the total donated to the SuperPAC......not to the individual candidates.....


Homesick said:
Isn't the greater good, what is good for the greatest number of people? And if the greatest number of people vote for something, isn't that the greatest good?

Just curious, how many people do you think are so rich they can spend millions and millions of dollars influencing people to make, what, billions of dollars? What is the rate of return on their money? Why would all these rich people spend so much money? Are they trying to become poor? If money is so easily found, why are we even worried about the pension; can't we just pickup this easy money off the ground or from the money trees?

I'm being a little facetious but you keep posting like so many people are so rich they can just literally give money away. Business have to answer to stockholders and board of directors. Businesses also have to pay dividends and investments in the company. They do not have the money to just waist on political issues anymore than nonprofits do.
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Piles of Money, Brother,.....from a small minority of the very wealthy.......to "get a good return"...on their money....Of Course...
They wouldn't do it if they didn't see a long-term increase in their Fortunes, right?
What about the Russians? Why are they spending money in OUR elections? What about their own? What sort of "return" do they see by influencing our elections? And,.....apparently it's only a few Russian "oligarchs" spending this money...
What are THEY getting out of this...."spending"?
And,.....We have no..."Oligarchs"....here? I mean obscenely wealthy people,...whose apparent "hobby"...is to influence elections?

And,...I believe SOME people want to...Shut Down....Union money in Politics. I guess they believe NO voice is the Best Course for Unions..........as the Wealthy are all Altruistic Souls who are looking after the.....Common Good.....

And,.....Why aren't these "Altruistic Souls" supporting Pension legislation? Hell,...Why aren't they donating to the Troubled Funds out of their own pockets? WE'RE the ones that.....made them RICH!
Wouldn't a little.....Gratitude.....be in order?
 
There are 5 people donating more money than all of the Labor Unions combined. ...And in 2017 ,Rich people donated $757 million to politicians through SuperPACs,.....More than 6 times the amount spent by Labor Unions.......

And, yes.......They donate to both sides........

But,...for some reason,....wealthy people want to spend their money on....politicians........."Return on Investment"?

So there is a ........small minority of wealthy people,....who rule our lives through money......

Are they for the......"Common Good"?
 
Now Jack Cooper won't be contributing to the fund plus then the remaining Auto companies will want the same concession! The government needs to force these companies to make full pension contributions or it's not going to work.
 
Jaloc said:
Now Jack Cooper won't be contributing to the fund plus then the remaining Auto companies will want the same concession! The government needs to force these companies to make full pension contributions or it's not going to work.
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Our Unions fault.. Not the Govt.. Weak Leadership.. Cant pay, Go away!!
 
iam4us said:
Our Unions fault.. Not the Govt.. Weak Leadership.. Cant pay, Go away!!
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It’s absolutely the governments fault. They put the rules in to not be overfunded and put the rules in to let companies buy out of the pension fund and to let a bankruptcy not have to fund what was owed to the pension fund. All of those government loopholes contributed to the pension demise. Why does paying bank loans supersede paying pension debt? It doesn’t have to be that way. Why does student loan debt not get corrected by a bankruptcy? Corruption is the answer. GOVERNMENT CORRUPTION!
 
iam4us said:
Our Unions fault.. Not the Govt.. Weak Leadership.. Cant pay, Go away!!
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You don’t have to be union if you don’t want to be. You didn’t have a problem being union when you got the bennies of them but when they are taking a beating you sure seem to be a anti union type. Again, the union is only as strong as its members. If you fold, majority of it’s membership, then it folds. Pretty simple.
 
canaryinthemine said:
Yup.........Everyone is......Only Unions can do it about 100 times less than corporations. And....the way they got "found out" is that Unions MUST, by Law,....publicly file with the State Election commission how much they spent on each candidate.......

Unlike corporations spending through SuperPAC's.....anonymously.....

If you read the whole article,..it appears that the two Unions in question attempted to set up a SuperPAC,...to "launder" the money....anonymously, like corporations do,.....to the politicians who seem to favor their cause....

What makes the article newsworthy,...is that it is a Violation of FEC law,....for a Union to not file an independent posting of their campaign spending........And,..as you read the article,...apparently they were "slow-walking" their reporting to the FEC.....( I believe the news article reported it was the "FCC"....which has nothing to do with campaign finance,...whereas the "FEC" does....Typo?..)

Now,.....How many...."Secret"....donations are coming from ...your Employer? If they donate to a SuperPAC,....the individual corporations are....according to the 2010 Supreme Court "Citizen's United vs. FEC" afforded the same anonymity that a....private citizen has.....by ONLY reporting the total donated to the SuperPAC......not to the individual candidates.....




Piles of Money, Brother,.....from a small minority of the very wealthy.......to "get a good return"...on their money....Of Course...
They wouldn't do it if they didn't see a long-term increase in their Fortunes, right?
What about the Russians? Why are they spending money in OUR elections? What about their own? What sort of "return" do they see by influencing our elections? And,.....apparently it's only a few Russian "oligarchs" spending this money...
What are THEY getting out of this...."spending"?
And,.....We have no..."Oligarchs"....here? I mean obscenely wealthy people,...whose apparent "hobby"...is to influence elections?

And,...I believe SOME people want to...Shut Down....Union money in Politics. I guess they believe NO voice is the Best Course for Unions..........as the Wealthy are all Altruistic Souls who are looking after the.....Common Good.....

And,.....Why aren't these "Altruistic Souls" supporting Pension legislation? Hell,...Why aren't they donating to the Troubled Funds out of their own pockets? WE'RE the ones that.....made them RICH!
Wouldn't a little.....Gratitude.....be in order?
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Brother Canary, I really don't know why the Russians are spending money in our elections. I also don't understand what the big/huge deal is over there voicing Russian opinion in our elections. Isn't freedom to voice your opinion a Russian right in America too? Is voicing your opinion of political issues and politicians only an American citizen right? Hell, I have an account on VK (Russian Facebook) that I voice opinions; isn't it my right to voice opinions on Russian issues in a globalized economy? I think so and I do so.
 
SAC75 said:
It’s absolutely the governments fault. They put the rules in to not be overfunded and put the rules in to let companies buy out of the pension fund and to let a bankruptcy not have to fund what was owed to the pension fund. All of those government loopholes contributed to the pension demise. Why does paying bank loans supersede paying pension debt? It doesn’t have to be that way. Why does student loan debt not get corrected by a bankruptcy? Corruption is the answer. GOVERNMENT CORRUPTION!
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Brother Sacs, didn't you post that the government upped the pension payment to the pensioners in order to keep the pension from being fully funded? I understand your logic but that means pensioners where overpaid, correct? Weren't they only supposed to get $1,500 for 30 years, then the government made that $3,000 for 30 years? My point is the pension was paid to the employees but not to the intended employees? Long term government regulation caused the pension to get in a bankruptcy state but the pension fund did pay the original amount to the employees. Or did I not understand what you posted?
 
Homesick said:
Brother Canary, I really don't know why the Russians are spending money in our elections. I also don't understand what the big/huge deal is over there voicing Russian opinion in our elections. Isn't freedom to voice your opinion a Russian right in America too? Is voicing your opinion of political issues and politicians only an American citizen right? Hell, I have an account on VK (Russian Facebook) that I voice opinions; isn't it my right to voice opinions on Russian issues in a globalized economy? I think so and I do so.
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Freedom of Speech ends when you shout "Fire!" in a crowded theater,...when there is no "fire".........

Apparently, the Russians,...(..and other countries and entities wishing us harm..).....are not posting their "opinions"...as honest private World Citizens,......but are hiding their identities and true intentions........knowing that a "finely crafted" message can disrupt the political discourse of our Nation.
Billions of dollars/rubles being spent on Facebook, Twitter,...and other sources for ........subterfuge.

Why?.....To what end?..... Can we guess?

And,....Did they "learn" that from our own corporate entities?.....The ability to..."market"....toxic and dangerous stuff,...and make them....popular?.....Patriotic, even?

Homesick said:
Brother Sacs, didn't you post that the government upped the pension payment to the pensioners in order to keep the pension from being fully funded? I understand your logic but that means pensioners where overpaid, correct? Weren't they only supposed to get $1,500 for 30 years, then the government made that $3,000 for 30 years? My point is the pension was paid to the employees but not to the intended employees? Long term government regulation caused the pension to get in a bankruptcy state but the pension fund did pay the original amount to the employees. Or did I not understand what you posted?
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And,....I know you addressed this question to Bro. SAC75,.......I am sure he is quite competent to answer you,.....But I'd like to throw in my two cent's worth,..if I could......
The ....government...did not direct pension plans to..."overpay"...retirees. They were lobbied by the banking industry to create a set of rules that would deeply penalize pension funds,...if certain conditions were to happen. It was up to the pension funds to....figure out a way around the...."penalty"..if you would....
Kind of like corporations in a hostile takeover situation.....creating a "poison pill" solution......

Funds that were in danger of completely losing company funding,....because they were temporarily 100% funded,.....had to come up with a....."creative solution"......because ERISA rules did NOT allow them to....hold money in reserve,...A "rainy day" savings fund, if you will......
These rules were argued about for....decades.....that I know of.....

All that was needed, for a "perfect storm" with defined-benefit funds........was for Wall Street to...engineer...a financial crisis...
...(...and for their lobbyists to pressure Congress to stop funding PBGI for the last 8 years or so.....so there was...NO safety guard....).....

And....SHAZAM! ...What happened in 2008? Prior to that,......the funds were struggling a little,....but nowhere near the ....desperate level the financial crash of 2008 put them in.....
IF...the 2008 Wall Street "crash"........hadn't occurred.........there's a ...good chance....that ALL the defined-benefit funds would have continued paying their full benefits,...by adjusting their investments portfolio.....

....(...By the way.....by "creating" a .....financial emergency in 2008.......Wall Street had to throw...defined-contribution funds onto the Bonfire, too.......How much in "value" did the private 401(K)'s lose?....30%?...40%?...50%?.......)...
..(...yeah, yeah,..yeah.....I know,...you've "gained back your losses"......But, how much better off would you be,...if there WERE no "losses"...in the first place?....).....
(...it's all ...umm....ON PAPER..by the way...)...

Funny how....pension and 401(K) problems are appearing,...just as a nationwide shortage of...qualified drivers...is occurring.....
How many are....deferring retirement,....and continuing to work,...because of....pension and 401(K) issues?

And,....Who "benefits" from that?
 
Crystal said:
WOW, thank you canary, that has to be the greatest two cents worth of logic that I can remember having ever read.
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Thank you, Brother........Someday I'll slip off my Soapbox and severely hurt myself...........I can only hope I'll fall on my head first,....Might crack the concrete,....otherwise,...no damage done........
 
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