Thats not saying ,So much for your company seniority,Which means nothing with out a collective bargaining ,Which you guys don’t have And most of you don’t want.Ill stand back and watch you guys cut each other’s throats for a few hours of overtime.
XPO | Xpo Union Thread.
- Thread starter upnorth
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If your company wanted more production out of you they would make it easier for you to get your job done.There all the same ,No matter where you work ,Today.
Hollywoodz
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They are all the same...except you have a grievance and arbitration process that will protect you from frivolous discipline. That's what I want.
ScotchNeat
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I would venture a good guess that if you and I each took paper and pen and at the top of the page made two columns, one for frivolous discipline and the other for legitimate discipline, that your frivolous discipline list would be longer than mine.
Hollywoodz
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I'm fairly sure our lists would be similar. If you have some spare time and want to put a list together, I will respond honestly.
Sometimes when your so deep in you become immune to your environment because it’s what you grown use too. I mean this as no disrespect and attribute it to the culture that we’ve been immersed in . Yes they must run a tight ship but when it becomes out of hand its oppressive in nature it takes the wind out of the workforce’s sails . Good management measures this to avoid that . I feel that is not happening currently. A work place environment should be attractive to current and prospective employees in order to gain maximum productivity, one that does the opposite will fail.
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WiggleWagondrvr
It Is All About ME.
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I am going to assume you have not been in the military. I have. The military really does not care about an attractive workplace environment. I know this is not the USN but your premise is incorrect. There are times when hard discipline corrects complaining and low morale. In our civilian workforce your words are mostly correct I was just offering a rebuttal showing it is not an absolute.
Hollywoodz
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I have not been in the military, but my father was a survivor of the Bataan Death March and he often credited the disciplinary training those men received for their ability to survive the atrocities they had to endure. The stories he told were heartbreaking. Strict discipline seems necessary when facing life and death situations in combat. On the 75th Anniversary of D-Day, my eternal gratitude to the men who fought and died on those beaches. I read that 90% died in the first wave. I can't even imagine.
Speaking only for myself, in a civilian workforce, ordering me to do something will get the job done, but asking me for my help will get it done twice as fast and twice as good. Stop with all the petty bullshit and let me do my job.
ScotchNeat
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OK, here are two lists.
Legitimate reasons for discipline:
1 Cell phone or wireless device in hand while vehicle is moving.
2 Lawful violations committed captured by the OBR while operating a CMV.
3 Intoxication or dropping a dirty urine specimen.
4 Stealing company or customer property.
5 Lying.
6 Dropped trailer.
7 Failure to do proper pre/post trip inspection.
8 Damaging freight.
9 Insubordination.
10 Tardiness or calling off from work when the lineup is not properly staffed.
11 Name calling, horseplay, profanity, vulgarity, threats, sexual harassment.
12 Refusing to work.
13 Improper handling of hazmat or placarding.
14 Hooking the wrong trailer/s and running with them.
15 Stealing time, including excessive yard and customer dwell and travel time, loitering on company time, excessive time spent in bath or break room.
16 Arguing with a supervisor over a work assignment, route assignment, equipment assignment, or any other non-safety related issue, regardless of the supervisors tone of voice. It's mostly about what's being said, not how it's being said.
17 Failure to adhere to SWI's and company policy.
18 Failure to properly weigh and measure freight.
19 Failure to properly load all skids/pieces of a multi-piece shipment on a line haul trailer.
20 Failing a road side inspection, being cited with a moving violation while operating a CMV, not wearing a seatbelt.
21 Reckless behavior while operating a fork lift.
22 Improperly loading freight resulting in damage.
23 Placing equipment OOS over non-safety sensitive concerns like a faulty charge receptacle, or an improperly working radio.
I'm sure others can add more to this list.
Next list is frivolous discipline.
Supervisors intentionally creating a hostile work environment for purely personal reasons, including being singled out for hand freight breakers, assignments of known crappy equipment, assignments of excessive lift gate peddles, name calling and disrespectful behavior toward employees.
Issuing an LOI to an employee who refuses to work due to a legitimate safety concern or being asked to go against policy, foul weather notwithstanding with the exception of a declared weather related emergency. In other words, "hook your set and get down the road."
Serene Gene
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I think they're more concerned with whether you're a good employee. You can be a skilled driver and be hell to work with.
And this fearmongering about at-will employment is nonsense. They don't toss great employees on the street for minor mistakes. If you think you're being targeted, maybe you're paranoid, or maybe you're not the gift to LTL freight that you think you are.
They can't afford to get rid of someone because they don't like their hairstyle.
Serene Gene
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Not very, especially when the first terminal to organize currently has an open decertification petition.
Serene Gene
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I honestly don't understand how experienced LTL drivers think that dispatch should never need to contact a driver during a peddle, or even while they're on the clock. My goodness. If your handheld is off, they don't know what stop you're at or what kind of pace you're on, and it screws up everybody's production numbers- including yours.
Oh sure, I remember shuffling all that paper and doing all of that writing. Calling every single bill and delivery in on the phone.
It was fine, but I don't know that I'd say it was faster.
Serene Gene
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What makes you think they didn't consider it? Did you offer anything in return for accepting TeamCare other than that line about it being a similar cost?
Serene Gene
TB Regular
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Okay, but that doesn't mean the rules are wrong or extraordinarily strict. You are legally required to stop for a stop sign. You are legally required to wear a seatbelt on the road. If you make it subjective, what happens if someone gets a ticket or is involved in an accident and tells the cops the company told them they didn't have to stop or wear a belt?
How can you proselytize for work rules and fairness and then at the same time feel like you can decide which rules are valid enough for you to follow?
Serene Gene
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So leave it in the cradle. You don't have the self control not to pick up your handheld while you're driving, so you make other people do more work?
And still no one can figure it why the Teamsters are a joke.
ScotchNeat
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Sucker 666 mentioned in a previous post that he keeps his handheld turned off until after he completes his deliveries. Let's say that an angry 3pl called dispatch twice before 1200pm wanting to know if the freight on his trailer for a particular customer had been delivered and dispatch kept seeing the freight as still undelivered and it's already 1300. Upon Sucker's return, he gets handed an LOI to sign for keeping his handheld off when it was supposed to be on. Is that legitimate or frivolous or legitimate discipline?
Hollywoodz
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I actually agree with most of what you placed on both lists. It seems that the majority of items are right out of the Policies and Procedures manual. I would argue with the following:
7. Pre and post trip. I am sure that you know the DOT required steps for a Pre trip and you also know that there isn't one driver in this company that does a proper Pre trip. There is no mandated time frame under DOT regulations, however, a proper Pre trip should take between 20 to 25 minutes. No way to accomplish this within the time allowed under PD 11. Therefore, with the exception for fluid levels, tires and lights, no discipline should be issued for improper Pre trip.
9. Insubordination is too broad a term for issuing discipline. If I raise my voice to an FOS, does that warrant discipline?
11. Name calling etc. If the profanity and vulgarity were enforced, I would have not lasted one week. We are grown men, in an atmosphere where profanity and vulgarity are prevalent. These other conditions should be dealt with a meeting among the 2 employees and an FOS. Threats and sexual harassment should never be tolerated.
16. Unless the conversation becomes aggressive and/or violent, I should be able to say anything that's on my mind to any supervisor at any time. I would consider that part of the open door policy.
17. Certain SWI's simply cannot be followed as written. PD 10 is an example. Return from the city, enter the gate and you have 17 minutes to punch the clock. It's not possible. In addition, if you read PD 11, there is no provision in it for pulling the dock plate, sweeping out the trailer or putting your pallet jack away. Yet, they'll want to issue you a warning if these steps aren't completed.
20. Considering the condition of some of these tractors, it is impossible to catch all the conditions that could be cited in a roadside inspection. With the exception of the obvious ones like tires, lights and air lines.
Now that I have agreed with you in principle on most of these violations, let me say that supervisors have way too much discretion when considering the level of discipline to be assessed. This is where the "frivolous" part comes in.
1. I approach a stop sign. I slow to 2 mph and roll up to the intersection so I have a clear view of traffic in either direction. As I roll slowly past the huge tree on my left, that should have been trimmed by the city, a car becomes visible and I hit my brakes. The camera goes off. What level of discipline is appropriate ...If any at all.
2. I am in the right lane at 55 mph at what I consider to be a safe following distance. I hit a pot hole and the camera goes off. Lytx sends back a video stating I was too close to the vehicle in front of me at 3.5 seconds. How is it possible to account for .5 seconds at 55 mph?
3. I am in stop and go traffic. I am stopped when I get a text message notification. I pick up my Hand Held and check that the pick up I am on my way to has been unassigned and I have been assigned a new pick up. Traffic begins to move and I place my hand held back in the holder BEFORE I begin to move. Suddenly, the car in front stops short and I am forced to do the same. The camera goes off and technically I am in violation. Discipline or not.
4.My tractor is OOS. I am assigned a tractor that should not be on any public highway. I hook and follow all required procedures including going under the trailer to confirm the hook. I drive one block from the terminal and drop the trailer. I call it in and hook back up and return immediately to the terminal...slowly. The next day, the vendor comes and diagnoses that the spring kit on the 5th wheel is defective. He replaces the spring kit. I am charged with an accident. I appeal and in the kangaroo court that ensues, I explain what happened, including the fact that the vendor replaced the spring kit. I am told that doesn't matter. Fair?
I could go on, but all of the above happened to me.
If you read the March 01, 2018 manual, in Section 3, under Employee relations on page 35, it lists the FIVE levels of discipline that we are subject to. You won't find the acronym LOI any more. THE POLICY HAS CHANGED AGAIN. The new 5 levels of discipline are:
1. Verbal Counseling
2.Written Warning
3.Final Written Warning
4. OOS/Suspension
5. Termination.
The first sentence of the very next paragraph states:
The company does not follow a specific progressive discipline policy, but rather reserves the right, in it's sole discretion, to decide which type of discipline to issue in response to each situation, including terminating employees without a prior warning.
ScotchNeat
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To add to your point. No driver, or driver coach acting in the capacity of a driver can go an entire career without making some mistakes that are going to be caught on the OBR. That doesn't change the fact that someone needs to be there as a coach to remind those not in compliance with law or policy to improve their driving behavior and habits. Judges aren't perfect either, but someone has to do it.
Hollywoodz
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